rickman wrote:
> linnix wrote:
> > rickman wrote:
> > > linnix wrote:
> > > > rickman wrote:
> > > > > sg wrote:
> > > > > > thnx. ill look into it.
> > > > > > no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
> > > > > form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
> > > > > a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
> > > > > own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.
> > > >
> > > > They are also very expensive, of the order of $200 each.
> > > > The RF chip is about $20 + another $20 for a DSP.
> > > > Of course, you have to do some programmings.
> > >
> > > I am getting pricing between $100 for qty 1 to <$25 for qty 10k.
> > > Basically the module is a vehicle for selling the chips.  In fact, the
> > > module approach saves you having to develop all the firmware since it
> > > is included in the on-module ARM.
> > >
> > > They are selling these modules for the cell phone market, so I can't
> > > imagine that it has much overhead cost or the cell phone makers would
> > > just use the chips.
> >
> > I guess you work for a big company.  We would not be buying 10k.
> > One quote I got was:
> >
> > Sample pricing is US$210.00 per unit
> > 100 units for production = US$180.00 per unit
> > 500 units for production = US$165.00 per unit
> >
> > The RF chip could be less than $10 if you are buying 10K.
>
> Yes, but the RF chip still requries the baseband chip and the ARM
> processor.  To the best of my knowledge everyone still has a three chip
> solution.  I guess there may be some who have combined the baseband
> processing with an ARM chip as a custom SOC solution, but I have not
> seen that yet.

Yes, that's a module with an embedded ARM.  However, since
getting the quote sometimes ago, we have designed not to go
with the single chip solution.  Since we need an FPGA on the board
anyway, it could be decoding the 4MHz baseband as well.

The GPS is not needed all the time, so only the incremental costs
are importannt.  The FPGA is not part of the cost issue.

>
> Who did you get your quotes from?  Check with uBlox or Fastrax.  They
> seem to have the best modules at this point, at least in terms of size,
> power and cost.  Pricing at 100 is $46 and at 500 is $34.  uBlox has
> new modules that are indoor capable with 157dBm sensitivity rating.
> The price is only a bit more.

OK, I will check it out.  Thanks.

> 
> If you need contacts, I can send you mine.

linnix wrote:
> rickman wrote:
> > linnix wrote:
> > > rickman wrote:
> > > > sg wrote:
> > > > > thnx. ill look into it.
> > > > > no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.
> > > >
> > > > There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
> > > > form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
> > > > a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
> > > > own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.
> > >
> > > They are also very expensive, of the order of $200 each.
> > > The RF chip is about $20 + another $20 for a DSP.
> > > Of course, you have to do some programmings.
> >
> > I am getting pricing between $100 for qty 1 to <$25 for qty 10k.
> > Basically the module is a vehicle for selling the chips.  In fact, the
> > module approach saves you having to develop all the firmware since it
> > is included in the on-module ARM.
> >
> > They are selling these modules for the cell phone market, so I can't
> > imagine that it has much overhead cost or the cell phone makers would
> > just use the chips.
>
> I guess you work for a big company.  We would not be buying 10k.
> One quote I got was:
>
> Sample pricing is US$210.00 per unit
> 100 units for production = US$180.00 per unit
> 500 units for production = US$165.00 per unit
>
> The RF chip could be less than $10 if you are buying 10K.

Yes, but the RF chip still requries the baseband chip and the ARM
processor.  To the best of my knowledge everyone still has a three chip
solution.  I guess there may be some who have combined the baseband
processing with an ARM chip as a custom SOC solution, but I have not
seen that yet.

Who did you get your quotes from?  Check with uBlox or Fastrax.  They
seem to have the best modules at this point, at least in terms of size,
power and cost.  Pricing at 100 is $46 and at 500 is $34.  uBlox has
new modules that are indoor capable with 157dBm sensitivity rating.
The price is only a bit more.

If you need contacts, I can send you mine.

rickman wrote:
> linnix wrote:
> > rickman wrote:
> > > sg wrote:
> > > > thnx. ill look into it.
> > > > no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.
> > >
> > > There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
> > > form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
> > > a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
> > > own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.
> >
> > They are also very expensive, of the order of $200 each.
> > The RF chip is about $20 + another $20 for a DSP.
> > Of course, you have to do some programmings.
>
> I am getting pricing between $100 for qty 1 to <$25 for qty 10k.
> Basically the module is a vehicle for selling the chips.  In fact, the
> module approach saves you having to develop all the firmware since it
> is included in the on-module ARM.
>
> They are selling these modules for the cell phone market, so I can't
> imagine that it has much overhead cost or the cell phone makers would
> just use the chips.

I guess you work for a big company.  We would not be buying 10k.
One quote I got was:

Sample pricing is US$210.00 per unit
100 units for production = US$180.00 per unit
500 units for production = US$165.00 per unit

The RF chip could be less than $10 if you are buying 10K.

linnix wrote:
> rickman wrote:
> > sg wrote:
> > > thnx. ill look into it.
> > > no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.
> >
> > There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
> > form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
> > a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
> > own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.
>
> They are also very expensive, of the order of $200 each.
> The RF chip is about $20 + another $20 for a DSP.
> Of course, you have to do some programmings.

I am getting pricing between $100 for qty 1 to <$25 for qty 10k.
Basically the module is a vehicle for selling the chips.  In fact, the
module approach saves you having to develop all the firmware since it
is included in the on-module ARM.

They are selling these modules for the cell phone market, so I can't
imagine that it has much overhead cost or the cell phone makers would
just use the chips.

rickman wrote:
> sg wrote:
> > thnx. ill look into it.
> > no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.
>
> There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
> form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
> a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
> own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.

They are also very expensive, of the order of $200 each.
The RF chip is about $20 + another $20 for a DSP.
Of course, you have to do some programmings.

sg wrote:
> thnx. ill look into it.
> no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.

There are a lot of modules out there that are much smaller than your
form factor.  They implement the full GPS function and communicate over
a serial port.  Some also provide software support so you can add your
own code to the ARM CPU which is on most of them.

thnx. ill look into it.
no its not military intended, but worldwide marketplace intended.

sg wrote:
> We are looking for engineering assistance developing a ARM SoC PCB for
> a commercial product.
> Ideal candidate will be US based, Chicago area a big plus.
> Demonstrated experience in pcb design with ARM SoC's, with some
> references of past work.
> Company Engineer who is looking to make some side money, or graduate EE
> student perhaps.
>
> ///
>
> Rough requirements are (more details will be provided after NDA:)
>
> ARM SoC @200mhz - @400mhz
> Board to run Linux (with CE support also a plus)
> On Board GPS + Antenna (Trimble or Sirf or ?)

How about a SiGe SE4100 GPS RF front end + DSP?
You can do better signal-to-noise filterings than the Sirf,
as well as different frequency channels.
With the EC and US releasing competiting GPS resolutions,
you don't want to tie to the old resolution based modules.

> ...
> Due to product design, we need to keep this as compact as possible.
> Ideal board size would be 120mm*40mm*7mm (with LiIon battery located
> elsewhere)
> We may also want to investigate two (or three ?) boards connected with
> a flex ribbon.

At least two boards, with the RFs on a separate board,
probably single-sided with solid plane on the other side.

> ...

> Contact armpcbdesign@yahoo.com if you can do this.

If you are doing it for the US army, they will probably ask for
the upgrading resolutions on both standards.  Just in case
they have to put solders in Europe.  Oh, sorry, they already
have.

we have. i have two eng firm quotes. thought id test the waters..

"sg" <sgarratt@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138563443.543612.248640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> We are looking for engineering assistance developing a ARM SoC PCB for
> a commercial product.
> Ideal candidate will be US based, Chicago area a big plus.
> Demonstrated experience in pcb design with ARM SoC's, with some
> references of past work.
> Company Engineer who is looking to make some side money, or graduate EE
> student perhaps.
>
> ///
>
> Rough requirements are (more details will be provided after NDA:)
>
> ARM SoC @200mhz - @400mhz
> Board to run Linux (with CE support also a plus)
> On Board GPS + Antenna (Trimble or Sirf or ?) ARM connected to GPS via
> serial/UART.
> AC97 audio, line in for microphones(s)
> Mono Audio amplifier @ 500mW
> Circuiry for LiIon charging / power managment
> 16mb Ram
> 16-32mb Flash
>
> ///
>
> Due to product design, we need to keep this as compact as possible.
> Ideal board size would be 120mm*40mm*7mm (with LiIon battery located
> elsewhere)
> We may also want to investigate two (or three ?) boards connected with
> a flex ribbon.
>
> We need production ready designs, gerber/orcad or eqiv pcb layout.
> Designs must me free of IP rights and Royalty free.
> We will handle manufacturing.
> We will pay a good industry standard rate for this, timeline is PCB
> prototype development by April 06 or sooner.
>
> Contact armpcbdesign@yahoo.com if you can do this.
>

Hello,

I'm not in Chicago - or even US - so not a contender for this work.

I will suggest that for a commercial product you are likely to get a much
better result if you get an experienced independent designer or design house
to help you. It will cost more than someone moonlighting or just out of
college but you stand a chance of getting a decent job.



Michael Kellett

www.mkesc.co.uk