Reply by Adriano May 12, 20102010-05-12
Talking about frou-frou... editor, compiler? For me only cat + uudecode do
the work. And, of course, this tool helps a lot:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/18/the-macgyver-multitool/

begin 640 froufrouless.txt
-2&5L;&\@=V]R;&0A"@

end
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 20:36, Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account) <
a...@mixdown.ca> wrote:

> On Monday, May 10, 2010 06:22:30 pm jdauchot wrote:
> > There must be some very sad people that uses this stuff.
> >
> > If you can get a free IDE like yagarto and eclipe to help you develop
> code,
> > why bother with this old stuff
>
> You're kidding, right? I'm more productive on this "old stuff" than most
> people
> will ever be using a frou-frou IDE like Eclipse. And I can be just as
> productive whether I'm at my own desktop or ssh'd to a development system
> across the globe, which is actually where I do about 50% of my work.
>
> Sad people, indeed.
>
> -A.

An Engineer's Guide to the LPC2100 Series

Reply by "Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account)" May 10, 20102010-05-10
On Monday, May 10, 2010 06:22:30 pm jdauchot wrote:
> There must be some very sad people that uses this stuff.
>
> If you can get a free IDE like yagarto and eclipe to help you develop code,
> why bother with this old stuff

You're kidding, right? I'm more productive on this "old stuff" than most people
will ever be using a frou-frou IDE like Eclipse. And I can be just as
productive whether I'm at my own desktop or ssh'd to a development system
across the globe, which is actually where I do about 50% of my work.

Sad people, indeed.

-A.

Reply by rtstofer May 10, 20102010-05-10
--- In l..., Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> I would expect the glitches of 10.04 to settle down pretty fast. And an LTS
> release add some confidence to the users. In reality, an LTS release means
> more to the server side and corporate world and really does not matter
> too much for personal users.> Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com
>

I like 9.10 but, as you point out, the LTS version is the place to be. Unfortunately, I don't wind up with an upper menu bar. Sure, Alt-F1 works but that's not the point. How is it that my installation, which worked perfectly with 9.10, all of a sudden doesn't get a menu bar? It was a clean install, no left over problems.

Oh, and the complaints that fakeraid (and probably real raid) don't work or can only be made to work by very high level gurus has the community in an uproar. One group of programmers used one style of partition naming and the other group used something different. HUGE problem!

So, I'll keep 9.10 a while longer. Maybe until 11.04.

Richard

Reply by Xiaofan Chen May 10, 20102010-05-10
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:11 PM, rtstofer wrote:
>Sometimes there is a lag in getting x64 drivers to market.
> Xilinx is one of these - I have to use my old P4.

Not only Xilinx, many others have the same problem. Drivers are kind of
problematic and difficult subject. With the policy of KMCS (kernel mode
code signing), you have to pay to get the proper digital signature (Global Sign
or VeriSign) to get the driver loadable by Windows Vista/7 64bit.

I think things are really getting better now for the 64bit
driver side. Many companies start to support 64bit Windows
Vista/7, for example, Microchip, ST, Silabs, FTDI, etc.

Recently I became one of the admins of libusb-win32 project and
we need to tackle this issue as well. Companies like Atmel
do use libusb-win32 device driver in applications like FLIP.
They get passed this issue by going through the WHQL process.
http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=78138

I am also supporting the test of libusb-1.0 (Linux and Windows),
The new libusb-1.0 Windows Backend support WinUSB
and HID backend so that it can work under 64bit Windows
Vista/7. This may help developers who do not want to
spend big moneys in the USB driver side.
http://www.libusb.org/wiki/windows_backend

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com
Reply by Xiaofan Chen May 10, 20102010-05-10
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:11 PM, rtstofer wrote:
> I currently have Ubuntu 9.10 on my main development PC and on a laptop.
> I tried to install 10.04 and my results were dismal. I did install 10.04 Server
> on a system and it works pretty well. But I think they blew the 10.04 Desktop release.

10.04 seems to work fine for me. I upgraded one of my 9.10 64bit installation to
10.04 64bit (took more than 2 hours) and it seems to work properly. The
Left Windows Buttons are kind of strange so I changed them to the right.
Other than that, it works the same as 9.10. I've been using Ubuntu since 5.04.

> Word to the wise, try to find Ubuntu 9.10 and wait a while before upgrading to 10.04.
> The bad news is that the .10 releases do not get Long Term Support (LTS).
> That is reserved for the .04 releases.
>

I would expect the glitches of 10.04 to settle down pretty fast. And an LTS
release add some confidence to the users. In reality, an LTS release means
more to the server side and corporate world and really does not matter
too much for personal users. When 10.10 is released, I will probably
move on to 10.10 (probably still keep one 10.04 partition). The thing with
Ubuntu LTS release is that Linux moves quite fast and an LTS release
will soon be out of date. But if you value stability for your real development
work, then it is good. But I am not a real software developer (I am a
hardware engineer).

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com
Reply by jdauchot May 10, 20102010-05-10
There must be some very sad people that uses this stuff.

If you can get a free IDE like yagarto and eclipe to help you develop code, why bother with this old stuff

Regards

--- In l..., Was Marcus wrote:
>
> vi rules!
> emacs sux!
> Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. ;-)
>
> fm
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, David Smead wrote:
>
> From: David Smead
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment
> To: l...
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 4:00 PM
>

Reply by Was Marcus May 10, 20102010-05-10
vi rules!
emacs sux!
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. ;-)

fm

--- On Mon, 5/10/10, David Smead wrote:

From: David Smead
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment
To: l...
Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 4:00 PM

Reply by David Smead May 10, 20102010-05-10
You wouldn't be doing all that swiching if you were using Linux.

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM, wrote:

> LOL, I do not know whether I am a real programmer, but I am lazy enough
> to be annoyed switching the window to compile, and switching back to find
> the line that contains error, then switch again and write the command to
> download, and debug.. I think if I do not use an IDE, Ill write one to
> use.. :P
>
> *From:* l... [mailto:l...] *On
> Behalf Of *David Smead
> *Sent:* 10 May, 2010 22:30
> *To:* l...
> *Subject:* Re: [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment
>
> Real programmers don't use IDEs.
>
> DaveS
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, wrote:
>
> Thank you guys,
>
> It looks like I need to stick with windows for a while, as IDEs are much
> available for it.
>
> *From:* l... [mailto:l...] *On
> Behalf Of *rtstofer
> *Sent:* 10 May, 2010 17:12
> *To:* l...
> *Subject:* [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment
>
> I moved almost all of my development work (hobby level) to Linux several
> years ago. I do only Xilinx FPGA development under WinXP and then only
> because Xilinx doesn't have device programming drivers for any current
> version of Linux (and last time I looked, the Linux version of WebPack ISE
> was ugly). Unless you use Red Hat Enterprise 4, you can't get there from
> here.
>
> Rowley CrossWorks for ARM works VERY WELL under Linux and it is identical
> under Windows. I have started using it with my Win7 x64 machine simply
> because I have a 23" display. Some IDEs can really benefit from a wide
> screen.
>
> As to Windows: YAGARTO installs easily for Arm development and includes
> enough stuff to make complete projects. WinARM is another possibility. It is
> often necessary to install cygwin to provide a Unix like environment. That's
> good news as the more of the important command line utilities will be
> available.
>
> There is certainly Windows software for Microchip and Atmel available for
> Windows of some flavor. Sometimes there is a lag in getting x64 drivers to
> market. Xilinx is one of these - I have to use my old P4.
>
> For Linux: Again Rowley Crossworks runs well. Eclipse is another good IDE
> and has the advantage that it is target neutral. You can create Atmel,
> Blackfin, PC, ARM, projects because Eclipse doesn't care what
> toolchain you use. As long as 'make' works, everything will be fine.
>
> The advantage of Linux is in the other tools: rm, sed, awk and other
> utilities that allow makefiles to do some pretty neat things. Sure, there
> may be Windows work-alikes but they're never really the same because Windows
> just isn't oriented toward the command line interface. By definition,
> makefiles are command line oriented. Cygwin may overcome this.
>
> A couple of my projects require non-FAT file systems to be created on a
> compact flash. The Linux 'dd' utility is PERFECT. There's nothing like it
> when you want to manipulate the raw data on a disk drive.
>
> I am not an evangelist for Linux. I don't personally want to support it
> because it can be a struggle for new users. However, there is a strong
> support community for most distros including Ubuntu. Every question that has
> ever come up in my working with Linux has been answered by someone else.
>
> I currently have Ubuntu 9.10 on my main development PC and on a laptop. I
> tried to install 10.04 and my results were dismal. I did install 10.04
> Server on a system and it works pretty well. But I think they blew the 10.04
> Desktop release.
>
> Word to the wise, try to find Ubuntu 9.10 and wait a while before upgrading
> to 10.04. The bad news is that the .10 releases do not get Long Term Support
> (LTS). That is reserved for the .04 releases.
>
> When I started with Linux, I bought a pretty high end workstation (for the
> time) with dual 19" LCDs. Having documentation on one screen and an IDE on
> the other is pretty nice. None of my Windows machines have dual displays
> although I am getting close to upgrading one of them. It came with Red Hat
> Enterprise WS and I eventually migrated through Fedora and arrived at
> Ubuntu.
>
> BTW, Linux minicom tends to work a lot better than Hyperterminal. But it
> doesn't have all the features. But it works...
>
> I prefer to do development under Linux but if WinXP or Win7 was all I had,
> I wouldn't feel strained.
>
> Take your pick!
>
> Richard
>
Reply by deni...@hotmail.com May 10, 20102010-05-10
LOL, I do not know whether I am a real programmer, but I am lazy enough to
be annoyed switching the window to compile, and switching back to find the
line that contains error, then switch again and write the command to
download, and debug.. I think if I do not use an IDE, I'll write one to
use.. :P

From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf Of
David Smead
Sent: 10 May, 2010 22:30
To: l...
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment

Real programmers don't use IDEs.

DaveS

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, wrote:

Thank you guys,

It looks like I need to stick with windows for a while, as IDE's are much
available for it.

From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf Of
rtstofer
Sent: 10 May, 2010 17:12
To: l...
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment

I moved almost all of my development work (hobby level) to Linux several
years ago. I do only Xilinx FPGA development under WinXP and then only
because Xilinx doesn't have device programming drivers for any current
version of Linux (and last time I looked, the Linux version of WebPack ISE
was ugly). Unless you use Red Hat Enterprise 4, you can't get there from
here.

Rowley CrossWorks for ARM works VERY WELL under Linux and it is identical
under Windows. I have started using it with my Win7 x64 machine simply
because I have a 23" display. Some IDEs can really benefit from a wide
screen.

As to Windows: YAGARTO installs easily for Arm development and includes
enough stuff to make complete projects. WinARM is another possibility. It is
often necessary to install cygwin to provide a Unix like environment. That's
good news as the more of the important command line utilities will be
available.

There is certainly Windows software for Microchip and Atmel available for
Windows of some flavor. Sometimes there is a lag in getting x64 drivers to
market. Xilinx is one of these - I have to use my old P4.

For Linux: Again Rowley Crossworks runs well. Eclipse is another good IDE
and has the advantage that it is target neutral. You can create Atmel,
Blackfin, PC, ARM, projects because Eclipse doesn't care what
toolchain you use. As long as 'make' works, everything will be fine.

The advantage of Linux is in the other tools: rm, sed, awk and other
utilities that allow makefiles to do some pretty neat things. Sure, there
may be Windows work-alikes but they're never really the same because Windows
just isn't oriented toward the command line interface. By definition,
makefiles are command line oriented. Cygwin may overcome this.

A couple of my projects require non-FAT file systems to be created on a
compact flash. The Linux 'dd' utility is PERFECT. There's nothing like it
when you want to manipulate the raw data on a disk drive.

I am not an evangelist for Linux. I don't personally want to support it
because it can be a struggle for new users. However, there is a strong
support community for most distros including Ubuntu. Every question that has
ever come up in my working with Linux has been answered by someone else.

I currently have Ubuntu 9.10 on my main development PC and on a laptop. I
tried to install 10.04 and my results were dismal. I did install 10.04
Server on a system and it works pretty well. But I think they blew the 10.04
Desktop release.

Word to the wise, try to find Ubuntu 9.10 and wait a while before upgrading
to 10.04. The bad news is that the .10 releases do not get Long Term Support
(LTS). That is reserved for the .04 releases.

When I started with Linux, I bought a pretty high end workstation (for the
time) with dual 19" LCDs. Having documentation on one screen and an IDE on
the other is pretty nice. None of my Windows machines have dual displays
although I am getting close to upgrading one of them. It came with Red Hat
Enterprise WS and I eventually migrated through Fedora and arrived at
Ubuntu.

BTW, Linux minicom tends to work a lot better than Hyperterminal. But it
doesn't have all the features. But it works...

I prefer to do development under Linux but if WinXP or Win7 was all I had, I
wouldn't feel strained.

Take your pick!

Richard
Reply by David Smead May 10, 20102010-05-10
Real programmers don't use IDEs.

DaveS

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, wrote:

> Thank you guys,
>
> It looks like I need to stick with windows for a while, as IDEs are much
> available for it.
>
> *From:* l... [mailto:l...] *On
> Behalf Of *rtstofer
> *Sent:* 10 May, 2010 17:12
> *To:* l...
> *Subject:* [lpc2000] Re: LPC development and Linux environment
>
> I moved almost all of my development work (hobby level) to Linux several
> years ago. I do only Xilinx FPGA development under WinXP and then only
> because Xilinx doesn't have device programming drivers for any current
> version of Linux (and last time I looked, the Linux version of WebPack ISE
> was ugly). Unless you use Red Hat Enterprise 4, you can't get there from
> here.
>
> Rowley CrossWorks for ARM works VERY WELL under Linux and it is identical
> under Windows. I have started using it with my Win7 x64 machine simply
> because I have a 23" display. Some IDEs can really benefit from a wide
> screen.
>
> As to Windows: YAGARTO installs easily for Arm development and includes
> enough stuff to make complete projects. WinARM is another possibility. It is
> often necessary to install cygwin to provide a Unix like environment. That's
> good news as the more of the important command line utilities will be
> available.
>
> There is certainly Windows software for Microchip and Atmel available for
> Windows of some flavor. Sometimes there is a lag in getting x64 drivers to
> market. Xilinx is one of these - I have to use my old P4.
>
> For Linux: Again Rowley Crossworks runs well. Eclipse is another good IDE
> and has the advantage that it is target neutral. You can create Atmel,
> Blackfin, PC, ARM, projects because Eclipse doesn't care what
> toolchain you use. As long as 'make' works, everything will be fine.
>
> The advantage of Linux is in the other tools: rm, sed, awk and other
> utilities that allow makefiles to do some pretty neat things. Sure, there
> may be Windows work-alikes but they're never really the same because Windows
> just isn't oriented toward the command line interface. By definition,
> makefiles are command line oriented. Cygwin may overcome this.
>
> A couple of my projects require non-FAT file systems to be created on a
> compact flash. The Linux 'dd' utility is PERFECT. There's nothing like it
> when you want to manipulate the raw data on a disk drive.
>
> I am not an evangelist for Linux. I don't personally want to support it
> because it can be a struggle for new users. However, there is a strong
> support community for most distros including Ubuntu. Every question that has
> ever come up in my working with Linux has been answered by someone else.
>
> I currently have Ubuntu 9.10 on my main development PC and on a laptop. I
> tried to install 10.04 and my results were dismal. I did install 10.04
> Server on a system and it works pretty well. But I think they blew the 10.04
> Desktop release.
>
> Word to the wise, try to find Ubuntu 9.10 and wait a while before upgrading
> to 10.04. The bad news is that the .10 releases do not get Long Term Support
> (LTS). That is reserved for the .04 releases.
>
> When I started with Linux, I bought a pretty high end workstation (for the
> time) with dual 19" LCDs. Having documentation on one screen and an IDE on
> the other is pretty nice. None of my Windows machines have dual displays
> although I am getting close to upgrading one of them. It came with Red Hat
> Enterprise WS and I eventually migrated through Fedora and arrived at
> Ubuntu.
>
> BTW, Linux minicom tends to work a lot better than Hyperterminal. But it
> doesn't have all the features. But it works...
>
> I prefer to do development under Linux but if WinXP or Win7 was all I had,
> I wouldn't feel strained.
>
> Take your pick!
>
> Richard
>