Reply by Vasile Surducan ●March 29, 20042004-03-29

oki-doki guys.

First, you must be happy because are living in one (or more...) country
where you may found everything you may need, in one store or other,
just near your apartment doors.
It's very difficult to understood what I'm saying if you can't experiment
first the whole feeling on your own skin.
Just one example: in Canada, a pack of 60 pcs Epson glossy photo paper is
al low as 50 canadian cents. Here almost the same thing cost
0.6USD/1 sheet (may be read as shit) of paper.

However, I don't need those. I found a good transfer paper used as support
for Xerox glued labels. So far I'm not extremely satisfied about the
methode. I hope you have taken a look too as I id, with a microscope (or
some stereo lenses magnifier) at the PCB quality. It has indeed a 10 mil
resolution, but the shape of the routes are not all very good, even the
circuit is continuous. So I have to dig more. best regards,
Vasile
http://surducan.netfirms.com On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, rj_satterlee wrote:

> Hi-
>
> I still use ferric chloride, and a tupperware (well one of
> those disposable containers). The thing is, I use one of those
> Salton Hot trays that you can find at Good Will for only a few
> bucks. They can easily raise the temperature of the etch.
>
> I slightly lie. I did not get mine at Good Will or garage sale.
> Actually, the one I use came from my Grandmother's estate, but
> the one we got as a wedding gift still remains in pristine condition.
> Failure to remain that way would result in my death sentence.....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rich S. > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > Those pix are from 2 different boards, both with Ammonium
> > Persulphate. Even with all its faults, I like AP.
> >
> > I built my own etch tank with 1/4" plexiglass from home depot
> > and "aquarium seal" - not the best stuff but it works. it took me
> 2
> > attempts to get one that worked well. My tank is 8x6x1.5 which
> holds
> > a little more than a liter. (doing it again, I'd make it 1" wide
> and
> > keep it under a liter - its convenient to be able to store the
> > etchant in a quart/liter jar.) I use a 100 Watt aquarium heater
> and
> > a bubbler. etch time is < 15 minutes at 100F which takes about 45
> > minutes to reach. I can etch 5x7 boards or smaller. Total cost was
> > about $50.
> >
> > Before that I used a tupperware pan but it took forever because I
> > wasn't able to heat it easily.
> >
> > --- In , "jrem123" <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > > man, those boards are awesome. I'll have to try the different
> > > paper. What hardware are you using to etch with? bubbles or
> spray
> > > or something? was it a kit or did you build it? or maybe I
> should
> > > be at the dys-pcb message list . . . and that other thread
> should
> > > be at the www.rant.com list (eh heh)
> > >
> > > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > > I found using non-porous paper to be problematic. This includes
> > > > magazine paper, photo paper and "release" paper (which is what
> I
> > > > think you are talking about). The toner has no place to go and
> is
> > > > thus quite sensitive to pressure. I was seeing a lot of
> > > > blotchiness. a 12 mil trace would look like a snake that ate 3
> > > > pigs. Often blooming to 2X the intended width. SMD pads for
> > even
> > > > SOICs were a mess, forget TQFPs.
> > > >
> > > > Using inkjet paper gives excellent results and is as cheap and
> > easy
> > > > as it comes. My last 3 boards (3x4ish size) required NO
> touching
> > > up
> > > > at all.
> > > >
> > > > look at the link I posted - I regularly do simple double sided
> > > > boards. They are about 10% more work than a single sided board
> > > > though a much easier routing job.
> > > >
> > > > --- In , jrem <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Lots of stuff out there on the net. I have successfully made
> > > PCB's
> > > > > with the "laser printer toner transfer method". You print on
> > to
> > > the
> > > > > backing for Avery style lables, iron it onto the PCB (surface
> > > > treated
> > > > > with 0000 paper and rubbing alcohol) (don't touch the backing
> > > > material
> > > > > or the clad on the board, the oils in your skin will ruin the
> > > > > transfer), iron the transfer on, drill (do this before
> etching,
> > > ask
> > > > me
> > > > > how I know), touch up the toner with a permanent marker, and
> > etch.
> > > > >
> > > > > The toner is flaked plastic, the laser melts the plastic onto
> > the
> > > > > paper. When you print to the avery lable backing it doesn't
> > fuse,
> > > so
> > > > > when you iron it onto the PCB it transfers to the copper.
> > > > >
> > > > > Works pretty good, it helps to touch up the traces prior to
> > > > etching.
> > > > > Don't bother buying any "special" PCB toner transfer paper.
> > > Double
> > > > > sided boards are probably close to unobtainable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wire wrapping is easier and faster for prototyping, IMO,
> > though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi list,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm interested into a viable, direct toner transfer methode
> > > > > > PCB producing. I would be glad if someone could point to
> > > > > > any *tested* methode. I'm interesting mostly on homebrew,
> > > > > > without using special transfer papers.
> > > > > > Thank you in advance,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vasile
> > > > > > http://surducan.netfirms.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links




Reply by Dave Mucha ●March 29, 20042004-03-29
--- In , Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote:
>
> oki-doki guys.
>
> First, you must be happy because are living in one (or more...)
country
> where you may found everything you may need, in one store or other,
> just near your apartment doors.
> It's very difficult to understood what I'm saying if you can't
experiment
> first the whole feeling on your own skin.
> Just one example: in Canada, a pack of 60 pcs Epson glossy photo
paper is
> al low as 50 canadian cents. Here almost the same thing cost
> 0.6USD/1 sheet (may be read as shit) of paper.
>
> However, I don't need those. I found a good transfer paper used as
support
> for Xerox glued labels. So far I'm not extremely satisfied about the
> methode. I hope you have taken a look too as I id, with a
microscope (or
> some stereo lenses magnifier) at the PCB quality. It has indeed a
10 mil
> resolution, but the shape of the routes are not all very good, even
the
> circuit is continuous. So I have to dig more. > best regards,
> Vasile
> http://surducan.netfirms.com
Hi Vasile,

When I did my first laser transfer, I used the very gloss paper that
is left over from stick on lables.

This list told me that if the paper goes thru the laser, it gets
toner and then you can iron that onto your board.

No special paper, plain bond, or high clay content.

I have tried magazine paper that is high clay and very shiny (glossy)

The main thing is that the toner is transfered.

I would recomend using one of each type you have available to see
what works.

Also, I use a manfying glass to check every trace and will touch up
those that are not perfect. Dave



Reply by Vasile Surducan ●March 29, 20042004-03-29

thank you all folks,
I think I will use sick adhesive too...

top 10 wishes,
Vasile
http://surducan.netfirms.com On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, stewart_bakeruk wrote:

> Should be "Stick adhesive" - my keyboard's got a sick "t" key >
> --- In , "stewart_bakeruk" <baker@n...> wrote:
> > To get registration between the two sides of a PCB I made up a
> small
> > jig like a letter "L" with an exact right angle between the
> > horizontal and vertical sides.
> >
> > I align each mask very accurately against these sides amd then
> > use "Sick adhesive" to attach each mask to the top and bottom sides
> > of the jig. I use this adhesive a) because it allows some slide
> > before setting. b) I can easily remove the mask for another type of
> > PCB.
> >
> > In operation the double side photo resist board is slid into the
> > pocket, and it's corners are held tight against the "L" right angle
> > while each side is exposed on the UV box. This gets very accurate,
> > repeatable registration.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > Stewart
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Patrick Reitelbach"
> > <preitelbach@y...> wrote:
> > > Phil,
> > >
> > > What method do you use to maintain registration between the two
> > sides?
> > >
> > > pr
> > > >
> > > > I regularly make 2 sided boards with 10 mil traces.
> > > >
> > > > Phil >
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links



Reply by rj_satterlee ●March 28, 20042004-03-28
Hi-

I still use ferric chloride, and a tupperware (well one of
those disposable containers). The thing is, I use one of those
Salton Hot trays that you can find at Good Will for only a few
bucks. They can easily raise the temperature of the etch.

I slightly lie. I did not get mine at Good Will or garage sale.
Actually, the one I use came from my Grandmother's estate, but
the one we got as a wedding gift still remains in pristine condition.
Failure to remain that way would result in my death sentence.....

Cheers,

Rich S. --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> Those pix are from 2 different boards, both with Ammonium
> Persulphate. Even with all its faults, I like AP.
>
> I built my own etch tank with 1/4" plexiglass from home depot
> and "aquarium seal" - not the best stuff but it works. it took me
2
> attempts to get one that worked well. My tank is 8x6x1.5 which
holds
> a little more than a liter. (doing it again, I'd make it 1" wide
and
> keep it under a liter - its convenient to be able to store the
> etchant in a quart/liter jar.) I use a 100 Watt aquarium heater
and
> a bubbler. etch time is < 15 minutes at 100F which takes about 45
> minutes to reach. I can etch 5x7 boards or smaller. Total cost was
> about $50.
>
> Before that I used a tupperware pan but it took forever because I
> wasn't able to heat it easily.
>
> --- In , "jrem123" <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > man, those boards are awesome. I'll have to try the different
> > paper. What hardware are you using to etch with? bubbles or
spray
> > or something? was it a kit or did you build it? or maybe I
should
> > be at the dys-pcb message list . . . and that other thread
should
> > be at the www.rant.com list (eh heh)
> >
> > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > I found using non-porous paper to be problematic. This includes
> > > magazine paper, photo paper and "release" paper (which is what
I
> > > think you are talking about). The toner has no place to go and
is
> > > thus quite sensitive to pressure. I was seeing a lot of
> > > blotchiness. a 12 mil trace would look like a snake that ate 3
> > > pigs. Often blooming to 2X the intended width. SMD pads for
> even
> > > SOICs were a mess, forget TQFPs.
> > >
> > > Using inkjet paper gives excellent results and is as cheap and
> easy
> > > as it comes. My last 3 boards (3x4ish size) required NO
touching
> > up
> > > at all.
> > >
> > > look at the link I posted - I regularly do simple double sided
> > > boards. They are about 10% more work than a single sided board
> > > though a much easier routing job.
> > >
> > > --- In , jrem <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > > > Lots of stuff out there on the net. I have successfully made
> > PCB's
> > > > with the "laser printer toner transfer method". You print on
> to
> > the
> > > > backing for Avery style lables, iron it onto the PCB (surface
> > > treated
> > > > with 0000 paper and rubbing alcohol) (don't touch the backing
> > > material
> > > > or the clad on the board, the oils in your skin will ruin the
> > > > transfer), iron the transfer on, drill (do this before
etching,
> > ask
> > > me
> > > > how I know), touch up the toner with a permanent marker, and
> etch.
> > > >
> > > > The toner is flaked plastic, the laser melts the plastic onto
> the
> > > > paper. When you print to the avery lable backing it doesn't
> fuse,
> > so
> > > > when you iron it onto the PCB it transfers to the copper.
> > > >
> > > > Works pretty good, it helps to touch up the traces prior to
> > > etching.
> > > > Don't bother buying any "special" PCB toner transfer paper.
> > Double
> > > > sided boards are probably close to unobtainable.
> > > >
> > > > Wire wrapping is easier and faster for prototyping, IMO,
> though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi list,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm interested into a viable, direct toner transfer methode
> > > > > PCB producing. I would be glad if someone could point to
> > > > > any *tested* methode. I'm interesting mostly on homebrew,
> > > > > without using special transfer papers.
> > > > > Thank you in advance,
> > > > >
> > > > > Vasile
> > > > > http://surducan.netfirms.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > >




Reply by stewart_bakeruk ●March 28, 20042004-03-28
Should be "Stick adhesive" - my keyboard's got a sick "t" key
--- In , "stewart_bakeruk" <baker@n...> wrote:
> To get registration between the two sides of a PCB I made up a
small
> jig like a letter "L" with an exact right angle between the
> horizontal and vertical sides.
>
> I align each mask very accurately against these sides amd then
> use "Sick adhesive" to attach each mask to the top and bottom sides
> of the jig. I use this adhesive a) because it allows some slide
> before setting. b) I can easily remove the mask for another type of
> PCB.
>
> In operation the double side photo resist board is slid into the
> pocket, and it's corners are held tight against the "L" right angle
> while each side is exposed on the UV box. This gets very accurate,
> repeatable registration.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Stewart > --- In , "Patrick Reitelbach"
> <preitelbach@y...> wrote:
> > Phil,
> >
> > What method do you use to maintain registration between the two
> sides?
> >
> > pr
> > >
> > > I regularly make 2 sided boards with 10 mil traces.
> > >
> > > Phil
Reply by wantoniet ●March 27, 20042004-03-27
Thanks Phil...

Ive immagined something like this. Good thing!!!
--- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> lol, very cudely but quite effective. its a hole that I stuff a
wire
> through and solder both sides. I take a 28 ga wire, strip
insulation
> and weave it through every via. Then solder all vias on one side,
> flip board and solder other side. then snip off the wire and
touch
> the iron to the vias to clean up the cut solder look. The whole
> operation takes maybe 10 minutes for a board with say 30 vias. I
> dont even bother with pads on the component side. I do work hard
to
> avoid vias when routing, though.
>
> metalizing and plating would be cool but its too much work. I'll
> leave that to the pro houses.
>
> --- In , "Wilson - Engenharia Contemp"
> <engenharia3@c...> wrote:
> > Phil, i dont understand how you make the vias? What is the
process
> of
> > metalizing a through hole?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Wilson
> >
> >
> > Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-
5117
> Fax.:
> > (11) 4223-5103 engenharia3@c... Visite nosso site:
> > www.contemp.com.br PRECIS AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:22 PM
> > Subject: [piclist] Re: PCB direct toner transfer methode
> >
> >
> > > I use a light table to align border and vias - if you can see
the
> > > light through the vias, you are pretty darn close. I dont
bother
> > > with any special registration marks. You can use a window
with
> the
> > > sun shining through. dont bother hold it up to a light bulb -
> that's
> > > an exercise in frustration. Here's my technique in a little
more
> > > detail.
> > >
> > > I dont bother with plated through holes so through hole parts
only
> > > have solder side traces to them. I use vias to get the trace
> there.
> > >
> > > print both sides, top mirrored on transfer paper. I use a good
> > > quality inkjet paper in a copier. I dont cut the paper down
so
> have
> > > lots of space to play with. Also, I dont touch the artwork at
> all.
> > >
> > > lay bottom sheet on light table, face up. put top sheet face
> down on
> > > top of the bottom sheet. Align the borders. Then tweak until
you
> > > see light through the vias. Inspect them all.
> > >
> > > Once satisfied with the alignment, I use double sided tape to
hold
> > > the paper together, creating a pocket to put the precut board
> into.
> > > I use a Scotch Brand double sided tape dispenser which makes
one-
> > > handed application really easy. I try to tape as far from the
> > > artwork as possible to minimize the uneven distances from tape
to
> > > artwork.
> > >
> > > Slide the pre-cut and prepared/activated substrate into the
pocket
> > > and align it with the outline, bottom side up. Use iron to
tack
> in
> > > the middle of the board (again to minimize any unequal
distances)
> and
> > > then proceed with standard ironing technique. Flip the pocket
> over
> > > and iron the other side. I use a lot of pressure - around 30
lbs.
> > > The inkjet paper will absorb excess toner so I dont
> get "crushing" of
> > > traces.
> > >
> > > Finally, I turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the
> board/paper
> > > assembly until it cools down well below the toner fusing
> > > temperature. This ensures a good contact between the
substrate
> and
> > > the toner.
> > >
> > > here are a few 10X microscope pix of the results pre and post
> etch.
> > > http://www.geocities.com/phil1960us/pcb/index.html
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Patrick Reitelbach"
> > > <preitelbach@y...> wrote:
> > > > Phil,
> > > >
> > > > What method do you use to maintain registration between the
two
> > > sides?
> > > >
> > > > pr
> > > > >
> > > > > I regularly make 2 sided boards with 10 mil traces.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> > instructions
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >




Reply by stewart_bakeruk ●March 27, 20042004-03-27
To get registration between the two sides of a PCB I made up a small
jig like a letter "L" with an exact right angle between the
horizontal and vertical sides.

I align each mask very accurately against these sides amd then
use "Sick adhesive" to attach each mask to the top and bottom sides
of the jig. I use this adhesive a) because it allows some slide
before setting. b) I can easily remove the mask for another type of
PCB.

In operation the double side photo resist board is slid into the
pocket, and it's corners are held tight against the "L" right angle
while each side is exposed on the UV box. This gets very accurate,
repeatable registration.

Hope this helps

Stewart --- In , "Patrick Reitelbach"
<preitelbach@y...> wrote:
> Phil,
>
> What method do you use to maintain registration between the two
sides?
>
> pr
> >
> > I regularly make 2 sided boards with 10 mil traces.
> >
> > Phil


Reply by Phil ●March 27, 20042004-03-27
lol, very cudely but quite effective. its a hole that I stuff a wire
through and solder both sides. I take a 28 ga wire, strip insulation
and weave it through every via. Then solder all vias on one side,
flip board and solder other side. then snip off the wire and touch
the iron to the vias to clean up the cut solder look. The whole
operation takes maybe 10 minutes for a board with say 30 vias. I
dont even bother with pads on the component side. I do work hard to
avoid vias when routing, though.

metalizing and plating would be cool but its too much work. I'll
leave that to the pro houses.

--- In , "Wilson - Engenharia Contemp"
<engenharia3@c...> wrote:
> Phil, i dont understand how you make the vias? What is the process
of
> metalizing a through hole?
>
> Regards,
>
> Wilson > Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-5117
Fax.:
> (11) 4223-5103 engenharia3@c... Visite nosso site:
> www.contemp.com.br PRECIS AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:22 PM
> Subject: [piclist] Re: PCB direct toner transfer methode > > I use a light table to align border and vias - if you can see the
> > light through the vias, you are pretty darn close. I dont bother
> > with any special registration marks. You can use a window with
the
> > sun shining through. dont bother hold it up to a light bulb -
that's
> > an exercise in frustration. Here's my technique in a little more
> > detail.
> >
> > I dont bother with plated through holes so through hole parts only
> > have solder side traces to them. I use vias to get the trace
there.
> >
> > print both sides, top mirrored on transfer paper. I use a good
> > quality inkjet paper in a copier. I dont cut the paper down so
have
> > lots of space to play with. Also, I dont touch the artwork at
all.
> >
> > lay bottom sheet on light table, face up. put top sheet face
down on
> > top of the bottom sheet. Align the borders. Then tweak until you
> > see light through the vias. Inspect them all.
> >
> > Once satisfied with the alignment, I use double sided tape to hold
> > the paper together, creating a pocket to put the precut board
into.
> > I use a Scotch Brand double sided tape dispenser which makes one-
> > handed application really easy. I try to tape as far from the
> > artwork as possible to minimize the uneven distances from tape to
> > artwork.
> >
> > Slide the pre-cut and prepared/activated substrate into the pocket
> > and align it with the outline, bottom side up. Use iron to tack
in
> > the middle of the board (again to minimize any unequal distances)
and
> > then proceed with standard ironing technique. Flip the pocket
over
> > and iron the other side. I use a lot of pressure - around 30 lbs.
> > The inkjet paper will absorb excess toner so I dont
get "crushing" of
> > traces.
> >
> > Finally, I turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the
board/paper
> > assembly until it cools down well below the toner fusing
> > temperature. This ensures a good contact between the substrate
and
> > the toner.
> >
> > here are a few 10X microscope pix of the results pre and post
etch.
> > http://www.geocities.com/phil1960us/pcb/index.html
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Patrick Reitelbach"
> > <preitelbach@y...> wrote:
> > > Phil,
> > >
> > > What method do you use to maintain registration between the two
> > sides?
> > >
> > > pr
> > > >
> > > > I regularly make 2 sided boards with 10 mil traces.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> instructions
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Reply by Phil ●March 27, 20042004-03-27
Those pix are from 2 different boards, both with Ammonium
Persulphate. Even with all its faults, I like AP.

I built my own etch tank with 1/4" plexiglass from home depot
and "aquarium seal" - not the best stuff but it works. it took me 2
attempts to get one that worked well. My tank is 8x6x1.5 which holds
a little more than a liter. (doing it again, I'd make it 1" wide and
keep it under a liter - its convenient to be able to store the
etchant in a quart/liter jar.) I use a 100 Watt aquarium heater and
a bubbler. etch time is < 15 minutes at 100F which takes about 45
minutes to reach. I can etch 5x7 boards or smaller. Total cost was
about $50.

Before that I used a tupperware pan but it took forever because I
wasn't able to heat it easily.

--- In , "jrem123" <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> man, those boards are awesome. I'll have to try the different
> paper. What hardware are you using to etch with? bubbles or spray
> or something? was it a kit or did you build it? or maybe I should
> be at the dys-pcb message list . . . and that other thread should
> be at the www.rant.com list (eh heh)
>
> --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > I found using non-porous paper to be problematic. This includes
> > magazine paper, photo paper and "release" paper (which is what I
> > think you are talking about). The toner has no place to go and is
> > thus quite sensitive to pressure. I was seeing a lot of
> > blotchiness. a 12 mil trace would look like a snake that ate 3
> > pigs. Often blooming to 2X the intended width. SMD pads for
even
> > SOICs were a mess, forget TQFPs.
> >
> > Using inkjet paper gives excellent results and is as cheap and
easy
> > as it comes. My last 3 boards (3x4ish size) required NO touching
> up
> > at all.
> >
> > look at the link I posted - I regularly do simple double sided
> > boards. They are about 10% more work than a single sided board
> > though a much easier routing job.
> >
> > --- In , jrem <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > > Lots of stuff out there on the net. I have successfully made
> PCB's
> > > with the "laser printer toner transfer method". You print on
to
> the
> > > backing for Avery style lables, iron it onto the PCB (surface
> > treated
> > > with 0000 paper and rubbing alcohol) (don't touch the backing
> > material
> > > or the clad on the board, the oils in your skin will ruin the
> > > transfer), iron the transfer on, drill (do this before etching,
> ask
> > me
> > > how I know), touch up the toner with a permanent marker, and
etch.
> > >
> > > The toner is flaked plastic, the laser melts the plastic onto
the
> > > paper. When you print to the avery lable backing it doesn't
fuse,
> so
> > > when you iron it onto the PCB it transfers to the copper.
> > >
> > > Works pretty good, it helps to touch up the traces prior to
> > etching.
> > > Don't bother buying any "special" PCB toner transfer paper.
> Double
> > > sided boards are probably close to unobtainable.
> > >
> > > Wire wrapping is easier and faster for prototyping, IMO,
though.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi list,
> > > >
> > > > I'm interested into a viable, direct toner transfer methode
> > > > PCB producing. I would be glad if someone could point to
> > > > any *tested* methode. I'm interesting mostly on homebrew,
> > > > without using special transfer papers.
> > > > Thank you in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Vasile
> > > > http://surducan.netfirms.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > >




Reply by jrem123 ●March 26, 20042004-03-26
man, those boards are awesome. I'll have to try the different
paper. What hardware are you using to etch with? bubbles or spray
or something? was it a kit or did you build it? or maybe I should
be at the dys-pcb message list . . . and that other thread should
be at the www.rant.com list (eh heh)

--- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> I found using non-porous paper to be problematic. This includes
> magazine paper, photo paper and "release" paper (which is what I
> think you are talking about). The toner has no place to go and is
> thus quite sensitive to pressure. I was seeing a lot of
> blotchiness. a 12 mil trace would look like a snake that ate 3
> pigs. Often blooming to 2X the intended width. SMD pads for even
> SOICs were a mess, forget TQFPs.
>
> Using inkjet paper gives excellent results and is as cheap and easy
> as it comes. My last 3 boards (3x4ish size) required NO touching
up
> at all.
>
> look at the link I posted - I regularly do simple double sided
> boards. They are about 10% more work than a single sided board
> though a much easier routing job.
>
> --- In , jrem <jrem123@y...> wrote:
> > Lots of stuff out there on the net. I have successfully made
PCB's
> > with the "laser printer toner transfer method". You print on to
the
> > backing for Avery style lables, iron it onto the PCB (surface
> treated
> > with 0000 paper and rubbing alcohol) (don't touch the backing
> material
> > or the clad on the board, the oils in your skin will ruin the
> > transfer), iron the transfer on, drill (do this before etching,
ask
> me
> > how I know), touch up the toner with a permanent marker, and etch.
> >
> > The toner is flaked plastic, the laser melts the plastic onto the
> > paper. When you print to the avery lable backing it doesn't fuse,
so
> > when you iron it onto the PCB it transfers to the copper.
> >
> > Works pretty good, it helps to touch up the traces prior to
> etching.
> > Don't bother buying any "special" PCB toner transfer paper.
Double
> > sided boards are probably close to unobtainable.
> >
> > Wire wrapping is easier and faster for prototyping, IMO, though.
> >
> >
> > --- Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi list,
> > >
> > > I'm interested into a viable, direct toner transfer methode
> > > PCB producing. I would be glad if someone could point to
> > > any *tested* methode. I'm interesting mostly on homebrew,
> > > without using special transfer papers.
> > > Thank you in advance,
> > >
> > > Vasile
> > > http://surducan.netfirms.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >