> Relying mostly on existing large customers is a risky business strategy.
> Catering to small ones is the ticket to long term growth. TI has
> understood that, and so did National, Analog Devices, OnSemi and a few
> others.

Yes, T.I. catered to a small Finnish company called Nokia, and that
certainly fueled growth.
National was invited to quote for the Nokia GSM ASIC three times, but
refused every time
(Actually the last time, they did not refuse. Just told Nokia that it would
take at least a year
before they could even start a project; Needless to say: Nokia went
elsewhere
National also absolutely refused to lift a finger to win the Ericsson GSM
ASIC
when Ericsson were evaluating the successor to the Z80 in the late 1990s)
National have not had any significant growth in revenue during the last 20
years.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB

Genome" <mrspamizgood@yahoo.co.uk> schreef in bericht 
news:NP0Lg.7232$SH2.6816@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

> I can't be bothered to snip the (ir)relevent parts but you get shit points 
> for being part of the problem.
>
> I won't explain why that sort of attitude qualifies you as part of the 
> problem because you are part of the problem.

You don't know shit about me. Today's business ethics made me
quit the scene, tired of playing the devil's advocate. But that
didn't change the way it works.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:QQRCYAvB3I$EFwxB@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> In message <Wz%Kg.5615$tU.2889@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, dated Mon, 4 
> Sep 2006, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes
>>Hello Spehro,
>>
>>>
>>>>Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good 
>>>>stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point 
>>>>where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved their 
>>>>most excellent CPLD series).
>>>  They just sold some of their interesting radio technology to a
>>> Taiwan-based company.
>>
>>That's just the kind of thing that I don't always understand. It's 
>>sometimes like a farmer selling or eating his seed potatoes.
>
> Yes, but the executives don't see it like that. They see it as the 
> sunflower seeds they saved three years ago and never got round to 
> planting. So if someone will buy them....
> -- 
> John Woodgate

You need to update yourself.....

Car boot sale.

DNA 

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message 
news:44fb5bac$0$4652$e4fe514c@dreader29.news.xs4all.nl...
> "Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> schreef in bericht 
> news:PEIKg.23625$gY6.22047@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>> Hello Frank,
>>
>>>
>>>>Then one of those $70M+ customers unexpectedly goes away for some reason 
>>>>and there'll be a Richter scale 6+ happening. Layoffs, stock slide, the 
>>>>usual. The other risk is that large customers easily have you over the 
>>>>barrel for margins as has been evidenced numerous times in automotive.
>>>
>>> It's also possible a new $70M+ customer pops out of the blue. New staff
>>> to be hired, stock going through the roof, the usual.
>>>
>>
>> Hard to do. If they want an instant new $70M+ customer they need to pry 
>> them away from a competitor and that usually comes with painful 
>> discounts.
>
> So they should be happy, when they loose a $70M+ customer to a
> competitor, and letting them give the painful discounts... What
> you seem to miss here, is that it doesn't matter much to loose a
> customer occasionally; it happens at the competitors side too.
>
>> The vast majority of such large customers are the ones that used to be 
>> the little guy 10 years ago. Woe to those manufacturers who have not 
>> courted that little guy back then. All they could do is wrestle them out 
>> of the hands of a competitor.
>
> No need to wrestle. Loyalty stops when the competitors offerings
> are better value for money. Nothing to 'Woe'.
>
>> Old saying in sales: The small acount can become tomorrow's big account. 
>> If you don't groom it, someone else will.
>
> And that's the moment to steal them away. Let someone else do the
> grooming. It's all about business decisions, and not all are
> neccesairily bad. And fluctuations aren't bad either. Look at
> your own business, not every month or year is equal. If you had
> a few $70M+ customers, you wouldn't be looking for bread crumbs.
> Or would you ? ;)
>
> -- 
> Thanks, Frank.
> (remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)
>
>
>
>

I can't be bothered to snip the (ir)relevent parts but you get shit points 
for being part of the problem.

I won't explain why that sort of attitude qualifies you as part of the 
problem because you are part of the problem.

DNA 

In message <Wz%Kg.5615$tU.2889@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, dated Mon, 4 
Sep 2006, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes
>Hello Spehro,
>
>>
>>>Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good 
>>>stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point 
>>>where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved 
>>>their most excellent CPLD series).
>>  They just sold some of their interesting radio technology to a
>> Taiwan-based company.
>
>That's just the kind of thing that I don't always understand. It's 
>sometimes like a farmer selling or eating his seed potatoes.

Yes, but the executives don't see it like that. They see it as the 
sunflower seeds they saved three years ago and never got round to 
planting. So if someone will buy them....
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely.

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:36:13 GMT, the renowned Joerg
> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Hello Frank,
> >
> >>>
> >>>>>Then one of those $70M+ customers unexpectedly goes away for some reason
> >>>>>and there'll be a Richter scale 6+ happening. Layoffs, stock slide, the
> >>>>>usual. The other risk is that large customers easily have you over the
> >>>>>barrel for margins as has been evidenced numerous times in automotive.
> >>>>
> >>>>It's also possible a new $70M+ customer pops out of the blue. New staff
> >>>>to be hired, stock going through the roof, the usual.
> >>>>
> >>>Hard to do. If they want an instant new $70M+ customer they need to pry
> >>>them away from a competitor and that usually comes with painful discounts.
> >>
> >> So they should be happy, when they loose a $70M+ customer to a
> >> competitor, and letting them give the painful discounts... What
> >> you seem to miss here, is that it doesn't matter much to loose a
> >> customer occasionally; it happens at the competitors side too.
> >>
> >
> >That's what people at Intel must have thought as well. Until this
> >weekend, that is. Rumors have it that there is going to be a huge layoff
> >tomorrow, something north of 10,000. I just wished this rumor hadn't
> >leaked out right before the labor day weekend, must have spoiled many a
> >family barbeque around here because our local plant employs about 7000.
>
> Up to 20,000 according to anonymous sources quoted in the WSJ. Maybe
> they leaked the 20K figure so when they lay off "only" 10K (10% of
> their workforce) people will be relieved.
>
> >Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good
> >stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point
> >where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved their
> >most excellent CPLD series).



>
> They just sold some of their interesting radio technology to a
> Taiwan-based company.

Intel just sold off it's 'communication controller' line (ARM based) to
Marvell, which will no doubt involve more layoffs. I can only hope they
keep making the things as I use 50k+ of then a year. I really don't
need an extra 'unplanned' design cycle right now ;)

Cheers

PeteS


>
> >>
> >>>The vast majority of such large customers are the ones that used to be the
> >>>little guy 10 years ago. Woe to those manufacturers who have not courted
> >>>that little guy back then. All they could do is wrestle them out of the
> >>>hands of a competitor.
> >>
> >> No need to wrestle. Loyalty stops when the competitors offerings
> >> are better value for money. Nothing to 'Woe'.
> >>
> >>>Old saying in sales: The small acount can become tomorrow's big account.
> >>>If you don't groom it, someone else will.
> >>
> >> And that's the moment to steal them away. Let someone else do the
> >> grooming. ...
> >
> >
> >Doesn't usually work in electronics. Except for jelly-bean parts you
> >typically stick to the mfg that's been good to you. At least that's how
> >it works in many American engineering teams. Not in my wildest dreams
> >would I now switch to a LPC ARM. No matter what carrot they hold under
> >my nose.
>
> Whose ARM would you pick, then? Atmel? Oki? TI has a rump offering,
> but most of their ARM products are specialized parts and go only to
> huge-volume automotive and such like OEM customers.
>
> >>    ... It's all about business decisions, and not all are
> >> neccesairily bad. And fluctuations aren't bad either. Look at
> >> your own business, not every month or year is equal. If you had
> >> a few $70M+ customers, you wouldn't be looking for bread crumbs.
> >> Or would you ? ;)
> >>
> >
> >In fact, I do. One of the very tiny clients from 10 years ago is now a
> >rather substantial one. Had I turned that teeny job down back then this
> >would not be the case. Resting on the laurels is dangerous but,
> >unfortunately, a very frequent occurrence in large companies.
>
> I think industry diversity is probably more important than number of
> customers. If you have hundeds of customers but they all make cell
> phones, you're still going down when the market for that product
> pauses.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany
> --
> "it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
> speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
> Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Hello Spehro,

> 
>>Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good 
>>stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point 
>>where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved their 
>>most excellent CPLD series).
> 
> They just sold some of their interesting radio technology to a
> Taiwan-based company. 
> 

That's just the kind of thing that I don't always understand. It's 
sometimes like a farmer selling or eating his seed potatoes.


>>>>Old saying in sales: The small acount can become tomorrow's big account. 
>>>>If you don't groom it, someone else will.
>>>
>>>And that's the moment to steal them away. Let someone else do the
>>>grooming. ...
>>
>>Doesn't usually work in electronics. Except for jelly-bean parts you 
>>typically stick to the mfg that's been good to you. At least that's how 
>>it works in many American engineering teams. Not in my wildest dreams 
>>would I now switch to a LPC ARM. No matter what carrot they hold under 
>>my nose.
> 
> Whose ARM would you pick, then? Atmel? Oki? TI has a rump offering,
> but most of their ARM products are specialized parts and go only to
> huge-volume automotive and such like OEM customers. 
> 

No ARM at all. So far it has been 8051, usually. MSP430 would be nice 
but TI is currently too skimpy on their peripherals specs for my apps. 
So it remains mostly analog plus jelly-bean logic.

> 
>>>   ... It's all about business decisions, and not all are
>>>neccesairily bad. And fluctuations aren't bad either. Look at
>>>your own business, not every month or year is equal. If you had
>>>a few $70M+ customers, you wouldn't be looking for bread crumbs.
>>>Or would you ? ;)
>>>
>>In fact, I do. One of the very tiny clients from 10 years ago is now a 
>>rather substantial one. Had I turned that teeny job down back then this 
>>would not be the case. Resting on the laurels is dangerous but, 
>>unfortunately, a very frequent occurrence in large companies.
> 
> I think industry diversity is probably more important than number of
> customers. If you have hundeds of customers but they all make cell
> phones, you're still going down when the market for that product
> pauses. 
> 

Agree. Although, according to my sister from Germany, the kids over 
there keep that cell phone market humming. Text messaging galore and 
lots of ringtones. If I'd be a kid today I guess I'd be "mega-out".

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>Doesn't usually work in electronics. Except for jelly-bean parts you 
>>typically stick to the mfg that's been good to you. At least that's how 
>>it works in many American engineering teams. Not in my wildest dreams 
>>would I now switch to a LPC ARM. No matter what carrot they hold under 
>>my nose.
> 
> 
> Whose ARM would you pick, then? Atmel? Oki? TI has a rump offering,
> but most of their ARM products are specialized parts and go only to
> huge-volume automotive and such like OEM customers. 

  That's what I thought too, but have you seen that Digikey have
a few thousand TMS470xx in stock ?, spread over 9 part numbers from 80 
pins to 144 pins, and with a reasonably flat price curve ( 34% from 1:1000).

-jg

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:36:13 GMT, the renowned Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

>Hello Frank,
>
>>>
>>>>>Then one of those $70M+ customers unexpectedly goes away for some reason 
>>>>>and there'll be a Richter scale 6+ happening. Layoffs, stock slide, the 
>>>>>usual. The other risk is that large customers easily have you over the 
>>>>>barrel for margins as has been evidenced numerous times in automotive.
>>>>
>>>>It's also possible a new $70M+ customer pops out of the blue. New staff
>>>>to be hired, stock going through the roof, the usual.
>>>>
>>>Hard to do. If they want an instant new $70M+ customer they need to pry 
>>>them away from a competitor and that usually comes with painful discounts.
>> 
>> So they should be happy, when they loose a $70M+ customer to a
>> competitor, and letting them give the painful discounts... What
>> you seem to miss here, is that it doesn't matter much to loose a
>> customer occasionally; it happens at the competitors side too.
>> 
>
>That's what people at Intel must have thought as well. Until this 
>weekend, that is. Rumors have it that there is going to be a huge layoff 
>tomorrow, something north of 10,000. I just wished this rumor hadn't 
>leaked out right before the labor day weekend, must have spoiled many a 
>family barbeque around here because our local plant employs about 7000.

Up to 20,000 according to anonymous sources quoted in the WSJ. Maybe
they leaked the 20K figure so when they lay off "only" 10K (10% of
their workforce) people will be relieved. 

>Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good 
>stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point 
>where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved their 
>most excellent CPLD series).

They just sold some of their interesting radio technology to a
Taiwan-based company. 

>> 
>>>The vast majority of such large customers are the ones that used to be the 
>>>little guy 10 years ago. Woe to those manufacturers who have not courted 
>>>that little guy back then. All they could do is wrestle them out of the 
>>>hands of a competitor.
>> 
>> No need to wrestle. Loyalty stops when the competitors offerings
>> are better value for money. Nothing to 'Woe'.
>> 
>>>Old saying in sales: The small acount can become tomorrow's big account. 
>>>If you don't groom it, someone else will.
>> 
>> And that's the moment to steal them away. Let someone else do the
>> grooming. ...
>
>
>Doesn't usually work in electronics. Except for jelly-bean parts you 
>typically stick to the mfg that's been good to you. At least that's how 
>it works in many American engineering teams. Not in my wildest dreams 
>would I now switch to a LPC ARM. No matter what carrot they hold under 
>my nose.

Whose ARM would you pick, then? Atmel? Oki? TI has a rump offering,
but most of their ARM products are specialized parts and go only to
huge-volume automotive and such like OEM customers. 

>>    ... It's all about business decisions, and not all are
>> neccesairily bad. And fluctuations aren't bad either. Look at
>> your own business, not every month or year is equal. If you had
>> a few $70M+ customers, you wouldn't be looking for bread crumbs.
>> Or would you ? ;)
>> 
>
>In fact, I do. One of the very tiny clients from 10 years ago is now a 
>rather substantial one. Had I turned that teeny job down back then this 
>would not be the case. Resting on the laurels is dangerous but, 
>unfortunately, a very frequent occurrence in large companies.

I think industry diversity is probably more important than number of
customers. If you have hundeds of customers but they all make cell
phones, you're still going down when the market for that product
pauses. 


Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Hello Frank,

>>
>>>>Then one of those $70M+ customers unexpectedly goes away for some reason 
>>>>and there'll be a Richter scale 6+ happening. Layoffs, stock slide, the 
>>>>usual. The other risk is that large customers easily have you over the 
>>>>barrel for margins as has been evidenced numerous times in automotive.
>>>
>>>It's also possible a new $70M+ customer pops out of the blue. New staff
>>>to be hired, stock going through the roof, the usual.
>>>
>>Hard to do. If they want an instant new $70M+ customer they need to pry 
>>them away from a competitor and that usually comes with painful discounts.
> 
> So they should be happy, when they loose a $70M+ customer to a
> competitor, and letting them give the painful discounts... What
> you seem to miss here, is that it doesn't matter much to loose a
> customer occasionally; it happens at the competitors side too.
> 

That's what people at Intel must have thought as well. Until this 
weekend, that is. Rumors have it that there is going to be a huge layoff 
tomorrow, something north of 10,000. I just wished this rumor hadn't 
leaked out right before the labor day weekend, must have spoiled many a 
family barbeque around here because our local plant employs about 7000.

Lack of diversification IMHO, plain and simple. They had lots of good 
stuff in the pipeline but ditched much of it. Sometimes to the point 
where I almost banged my head on the table (like when they shelved their 
most excellent CPLD series).

> 
>>The vast majority of such large customers are the ones that used to be the 
>>little guy 10 years ago. Woe to those manufacturers who have not courted 
>>that little guy back then. All they could do is wrestle them out of the 
>>hands of a competitor.
> 
> No need to wrestle. Loyalty stops when the competitors offerings
> are better value for money. Nothing to 'Woe'.
> 
>>Old saying in sales: The small acount can become tomorrow's big account. 
>>If you don't groom it, someone else will.
> 
> And that's the moment to steal them away. Let someone else do the
> grooming. ...


Doesn't usually work in electronics. Except for jelly-bean parts you 
typically stick to the mfg that's been good to you. At least that's how 
it works in many American engineering teams. Not in my wildest dreams 
would I now switch to a LPC ARM. No matter what carrot they hold under 
my nose.


>    ... It's all about business decisions, and not all are
> neccesairily bad. And fluctuations aren't bad either. Look at
> your own business, not every month or year is equal. If you had
> a few $70M+ customers, you wouldn't be looking for bread crumbs.
> Or would you ? ;)
> 

In fact, I do. One of the very tiny clients from 10 years ago is now a 
rather substantial one. Had I turned that teeny job down back then this 
would not be the case. Resting on the laurels is dangerous but, 
unfortunately, a very frequent occurrence in large companies.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com