I evaluated all, chose IAR, using it for 4 years. Very pleased with software and
support.
For professional use, I/we want to buy/use compiler/IDE tools, and NOT spend
time building and debugging tools. Customer doesn't pay for that.
--- In l..., Steve Childress wrote: >
> Did you consider IAR and Keil?
>
> And if your target is an Atmel ARM, Atmel Studio 6 (free)
>
>
I sure with that Segger would FraCkinG fix there STUPID USB
drivers !!
I'm tired of getting these stoopid warnings like...
Warning: Write failed (target is running) at Memory address 0xE01FC08c when
the damm USB cable is UNPLUGGED and it goes ON and ON and ON and I have to
Ctrl-Alt-Delete and close IAR EWARM and the driver and sometimes reboot and
re-install the USB drivers !
Why can't these guys (IAR/SEGGER) make their systems run on Mac OS X and
then I could get away from Windoze completely !
Thanks
boB
--- In l..., Paul Curtis wrote: >
> I am not sure that you can purchase this separately as it is an OEM
product.
>
> You can purchase it with the FDI kits:
>
> http://www.teamfdi.com/support/touch-screen.php
>
> -- Paul.
>
> On 17 Apr 2012, at 19:15, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We use IAR EWARM and LPC1766 and LPC2366 parts with the J-Link...
> >
> > I just saw mentioned in the Segger catalog, this LPC Lite JTAG box.
> > Anybody know if it is actually available ?? I cannot seem to find it
anywhere except in their PDF catalog...
> >
> >
> > 2.6.7 NXP: J-Link Lite LPC Edition
> >
> > J-Link Lite LPC Edition is an OEM version of J-Link, sold by NXP.
> > Limitations
> >
> > J-Link Lite LPC Edition only works with NXP devices. This limitation
> > can NOT be lifted; if you would like to use J-Link with a
> > device from an other manufacturer, you need to buy a separate
> > J-Link.
> >
> > Licenses
> > No licenses are included.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In l..., richard neveau wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Regarding Rowley
> >> I have used in last 7 years, at work, for ARM based product development,
the following IDE's - Rowley Crossworks, IAR EWARM, TI CCS4, Freescale
CodeWarrior 10, & Mentor Code Sourcery/Bench.
> >> The only 2 I will gladly use again are Rowley & IAR.
> >> ---------
> >> Rowley Crossworks also seemed the best tool for 'debug' of
embedded devices as it wasn't as flaky as the eclipse based tools and IMO
was a little better debug experience day to day than IAR. IAR seems to build a
little better code in benchmarks I've seen but I have not needed to squeeze
CPU cycles for a while so the debug experience is what I rate as most important.
Also $1500 < $5000 so while both tools are good Rowley is less expensive.
> >> One thing with Eclipse based tools we have used is the whole
'sharing' of projects via SCM tool (SVN in our case) seems very hard
to do smoothly. The .metadata directory has too big a mix between project and
personal settings to be a good candidate for raw archiving and there was not a
good rule of thumb we found to use across all Eclipse tools on what parts to
save away. If you have more than a few developers on a project you might have
some issues (or a lot of extra work) to make something that is bit for bit
reproducible after changing PC's or several additional projects have
occurred and you have to go back to do maintenance. If you can stick with one
IDE and one product maybe you only have to learn the rules once so just a one
time waste of resources but I'm betting figuring out this will cost you in
some fashion close to $500 x N developers unless your N is large (or you force
everyone to use exactly the same development environment).
> >> Have not used CodeRed but last time I did an IDE eval it seemed CodeRed
didn't support the extended ARM family as well as Rowley and IAR did. If
you go to an chip outside NXP/TI/ST products you would have to switch tools.
You probably never HAVE to use a chip not available from one of those vendors
for most embedded products but something to consider.
> >> If you are sure you will only use NXP chips then maybe the trace feature is
enough to tip you to CodeRed even with the Eclipse issues. If it is as powerful
as the Keil trace feature seems to be in demos it would catch my interest if I
didn't have to support a wider range of chip vendors (and it wasn't
Eclipse based ).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Reply by boB G●April 17, 20122012-04-17
--- In l..., Paul Curtis wrote: >
> I am not sure that you can purchase this separately as it is an OEM
product.
>
> You can purchase it with the FDI kits:
>
> http://www.teamfdi.com/support/touch-screen.php
>
> -- Paul.
> Thanks Paul. That's exactly what it is !
Nope. I can't get these. It's also slowed down to about 33% of the
full speed J-Link box. I suppose I could buy the FTI kit.
I was just thinking of using it for a backup if our J-Link goes
bad. We have several of those and once in a great while they
do break, but nothing has lately.
$300 is about the cheapest I can find the J-Link which will do.
boB
> On 17 Apr 2012, at 19:15, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We use IAR EWARM and LPC1766 and LPC2366 parts with the J-Link...
> >
> > I just saw mentioned in the Segger catalog, this LPC Lite JTAG box.
> > Anybody know if it is actually available ?? I cannot seem to find it
anywhere except in their PDF catalog...
> >
> >
> > 2.6.7 NXP: J-Link Lite LPC Edition
> >
> > J-Link Lite LPC Edition is an OEM version of J-Link, sold by NXP.
> > Limitations
> >
> > J-Link Lite LPC Edition only works with NXP devices. This limitation
> > can NOT be lifted; if you would like to use J-Link with a
> > device from an other manufacturer, you need to buy a separate
> > J-Link.
> >
> > Licenses
> > No licenses are included.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In l..., richard neveau wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Regarding Rowley
> >> I have used in last 7 years, at work, for ARM based product development,
the following IDE's - Rowley Crossworks, IAR EWARM, TI CCS4, Freescale
CodeWarrior 10, & Mentor Code Sourcery/Bench.
> >> The only 2 I will gladly use again are Rowley & IAR.
> >> ---------
> >> Rowley Crossworks also seemed the best tool for 'debug' of
embedded devices as it wasn't as flaky as the eclipse based tools and IMO
was a little better debug experience day to day than IAR. IAR seems to build a
little better code in benchmarks I've seen but I have not needed to squeeze
CPU cycles for a while so the debug experience is what I rate as most important.
Also $1500 < $5000 so while both tools are good Rowley is less expensive.
> >> One thing with Eclipse based tools we have used is the whole
'sharing' of projects via SCM tool (SVN in our case) seems very hard
to do smoothly. The .metadata directory has too big a mix between project and
personal settings to be a good candidate for raw archiving and there was not a
good rule of thumb we found to use across all Eclipse tools on what parts to
save away. If you have more than a few developers on a project you might have
some issues (or a lot of extra work) to make something that is bit for bit
reproducible after changing PC's or several additional projects have
occurred and you have to go back to do maintenance. If you can stick with one
IDE and one product maybe you only have to learn the rules once so just a one
time waste of resources but I'm betting figuring out this will cost you in
some fashion close to $500 x N developers unless your N is large (or you force
everyone to use exactly the same development environment).
> >> Have not used CodeRed but last time I did an IDE eval it seemed CodeRed
didn't support the extended ARM family as well as Rowley and IAR did. If
you go to an chip outside NXP/TI/ST products you would have to switch tools.
You probably never HAVE to use a chip not available from one of those vendors
for most embedded products but something to consider.
> >> If you are sure you will only use NXP chips then maybe the trace feature is
enough to tip you to CodeRed even with the Eclipse issues. If it is as powerful
as the Keil trace feature seems to be in demos it would catch my interest if I
didn't have to support a wider range of chip vendors (and it wasn't
Eclipse based ).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Reply by Paul Curtis●April 17, 20122012-04-17
I am not sure that you can purchase this separately as it is an OEM product.
> We use IAR EWARM and LPC1766 and LPC2366 parts with
the J-Link...
>
> I just saw mentioned in the Segger catalog, this LPC Lite JTAG box.
> Anybody know if it is actually available ?? I cannot seem to find it anywhere
except in their PDF catalog...
> 2.6.7 NXP: J-Link Lite LPC Edition
>
> J-Link Lite LPC Edition is an OEM version of J-Link, sold by NXP.
> Limitations
>
> J-Link Lite LPC Edition only works with NXP devices. This limitation
> can NOT be lifted; if you would like to use J-Link with a
> device from an other manufacturer, you need to buy a separate
> J-Link.
>
> Licenses
> No licenses are included.
>
> --- In l..., richard neveau wrote:
>>> Regarding Rowley
>> I have used in last 7 years, at work, for ARM based product development, the
following IDE's - Rowley Crossworks, IAR EWARM, TI CCS4, Freescale
CodeWarrior 10, & Mentor Code Sourcery/Bench.
>> The only 2 I will gladly use again are Rowley & IAR.
>> ---------
>> Rowley Crossworks also seemed the best tool for 'debug' of embedded
devices as it wasn't as flaky as the eclipse based tools and IMO was a
little better debug experience day to day than IAR. IAR seems to build a little
better code in benchmarks I've seen but I have not needed to squeeze CPU
cycles for a while so the debug experience is what I rate as most important.
Also $1500 < $5000 so while both tools are good Rowley is less expensive.
>> One thing with Eclipse based tools we have used is the whole
'sharing' of projects via SCM tool (SVN in our case) seems very hard
to do smoothly. The .metadata directory has too big a mix between project and
personal settings to be a good candidate for raw archiving and there was not a
good rule of thumb we found to use across all Eclipse tools on what parts to
save away. If you have more than a few developers on a project you might have
some issues (or a lot of extra work) to make something that is bit for bit
reproducible after changing PC's or several additional projects have
occurred and you have to go back to do maintenance. If you can stick with one
IDE and one product maybe you only have to learn the rules once so just a one
time waste of resources but I'm betting figuring out this will cost you in
some fashion close to $500 x N developers unless your N is large (or you force
everyone to use exactly the same development environment).
>> Have not used CodeRed but last time I did an IDE eval it seemed CodeRed
didn't support the extended ARM family as well as Rowley and IAR did. If
you go to an chip outside NXP/TI/ST products you would have to switch tools.
You probably never HAVE to use a chip not available from one of those vendors
for most embedded products but something to consider.
>> If you are sure you will only use NXP chips then maybe the trace feature is
enough to tip you to CodeRed even with the Eclipse issues. If it is as powerful
as the Keil trace feature seems to be in demos it would catch my interest if I
didn't have to support a wider range of chip vendors (and it wasn't
Eclipse based ).
>>
>>
Reply by boB G●April 17, 20122012-04-17
We use IAR EWARM and LPC1766 and LPC2366 parts with the J-Link...
I just saw mentioned in the Segger catalog, this LPC Lite JTAG box.
Anybody know if it is actually available ?? I cannot seem to find it anywhere
except in their PDF catalog...
2.6.7 NXP: J-Link Lite LPC Edition
J-Link Lite LPC Edition is an OEM version of J-Link, sold by NXP.
Limitations
J-Link Lite LPC Edition only works with NXP devices. This limitation
can NOT be lifted; if you would like to use J-Link with a
device from an other manufacturer, you need to buy a separate
J-Link.
Licenses
No licenses are included.
--- In l..., richard neveau wrote: > > Regarding Rowley
> I have used in last 7 years, at work, for ARM based product development, the
following IDE's - Rowley Crossworks, IAR EWARM, TI CCS4, Freescale
CodeWarrior 10, & Mentor Code Sourcery/Bench.
> The only 2 I will gladly use again are Rowley & IAR.
> ---------
> Rowley Crossworks also seemed the best tool for 'debug' of embedded
devices as it wasn't as flaky as the eclipse based tools and IMO was a
little better debug experience day to day than IAR. IAR seems to build a little
better code in benchmarks I've seen but I have not needed to squeeze CPU
cycles for a while so the debug experience is what I rate as most important.
Also $1500 < $5000 so while both tools are good Rowley is less expensive.
> One thing with Eclipse based tools we have used is the whole
'sharing' of projects via SCM tool (SVN in our case) seems very hard
to do smoothly. The .metadata directory has too big a mix between project and
personal settings to be a good candidate for raw archiving and there was not a
good rule of thumb we found to use across all Eclipse tools on what parts to
save away. If you have more than a few developers on a project you might have
some issues (or a lot of extra work) to make something that is bit for bit
reproducible after changing PC's or several additional projects have
occurred and you have to go back to do maintenance. If you can stick with one
IDE and one product maybe you only have to learn the rules once so just a one
time waste of resources but I'm betting figuring out this will cost you in
some fashion close to $500 x N developers unless your N is large (or you force
everyone to use exactly the same development environment).
> Have not used CodeRed but last time I did an IDE eval it seemed CodeRed
didn't support the extended ARM family as well as Rowley and IAR did. If
you go to an chip outside NXP/TI/ST products you would have to switch tools.
You probably never HAVE to use a chip not available from one of those vendors
for most embedded products but something to consider.
> If you are sure you will only use NXP chips then maybe the trace feature is
enough to tip you to CodeRed even with the Eclipse issues. If it is as powerful
as the Keil trace feature seems to be in demos it would catch my interest if I
didn't have to support a wider range of chip vendors (and it wasn't
Eclipse based ).
Reply by richard neveau●April 17, 20122012-04-17
> Regarding Rowley I have used in last 7 years, at work, for ARM based product development,
the following IDE's - Rowley Crossworks, IAR EWARM, TI CCS4, Freescale
CodeWarrior 10, & Mentor Code Sourcery/Bench.
The only 2 I will gladly use again are Rowley & IAR.
---------
Rowley Crossworks also seemed the best tool for 'debug' of embedded
devices as it wasn't as flaky as the eclipse based tools and IMO was a
little better debug experience day to day than IAR. IAR seems to build a little
better code in benchmarks I've seen but I have not needed to squeeze CPU
cycles for a while so the debug experience is what I rate as most important.
Also $1500 < $5000 so while both tools are good Rowley is less expensive.
One thing with Eclipse based tools we have used is the whole 'sharing'
of projects via SCM tool (SVN in our case) seems very hard to do smoothly. The
.metadata directory has too big a mix between project and personal settings to
be a good candidate for raw archiving and there was not a good rule of thumb we
found to use across all Eclipse tools on what parts to save away. If you have
more than a few developers on a project you might have some issues (or a lot of
extra work) to make something that is bit for bit reproducible after changing
PC's or several additional projects have occurred and you have to go back
to do maintenance. If you can stick with one IDE and one product maybe you only
have to learn the rules once so just a one time waste of resources but I'm
betting figuring out this will cost you in some fashion close to $500 x N
developers unless your N is large (or you force everyone to use exactly the same
development environment).
Have not used CodeRed but last time I did an IDE eval it seemed CodeRed
didn't support the extended ARM family as well as Rowley and IAR did. If
you go to an chip outside NXP/TI/ST products you would have to switch tools.
You probably never HAVE to use a chip not available from one of those vendors
for most embedded products but something to consider.
If you are sure you will only use NXP chips then maybe the trace feature is
enough to tip you to CodeRed even with the Eclipse issues. If it is as powerful
as the Keil trace feature seems to be in demos it would catch my interest if I
didn't have to support a wider range of chip vendors (and it wasn't
Eclipse based ).
Reply by Richard Man●April 4, 20122012-04-04
What an interesting turn of conversation.
Will be interesting to see how the embedded tool world evolved in the next
few years. Our compiler products are generally under $500, and we do
provide support, but we certainly work hard up front to make the support
issues as light as possible. I'd say every other month we would have a
"Paul Curtis Category 3" support request, but even those, once you calm
them down, usually do work out well.
The number of "bugs" reported versus real compiler bugs is probably 100:5.
--
// richard m: richard @imagecraft.com
Reply by Leon Heller●April 3, 20122012-04-03
On 03/04/2012 01:37, Jerry wrote: > --- In l... ,
Leon
> Heller wrote:
> > I don't know about the Altium resellers, but Altium themselves have
had
> > severe financial problems for many years:
> > They claim to have sold about 18,000 licenses. With 285 staff to pay I
> > can't see how they manage to keep trading.
>
> Maybe that's why, about a year ago, Altium packed up and moved, lock,
> stock, and barrel, from Australia, to Shanghai, China. Yes, it was obviously to reduce their costs. They even tried offering an
amnesty to the vast number of Chinese using pirated copies, which might
have had more effect coming from a Chinese company.
Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM
Reply by Jerry●April 2, 20122012-04-02
--- In l..., Leon Heller wrote: > I don't know about the Altium resellers, but
Altium themselves have had
> severe financial problems for many years:
> They claim to have sold about 18,000 licenses. With 285 staff to pay I
> can't see how they manage to keep trading.
Maybe that's why, about a year ago, Altium packed up and moved, lock,
stock, and barrel, from Australia, to Shanghai, China.
Reply by Leon Heller●April 2, 20122012-04-02
On 02/04/2012 20:28, Mark wrote: > Interesting. Are these the number of licenses "ever"
sold or yearly? Are
> they for their Tasking IDE or their PCB design SW?
>
> Most customers will be on a subscription (new PCB design licences will
> be about $5..7k and substription maybe 1k a year). Altium Designer is a
> wonderful product and they need a big team to maintain and further
> develop it (as they do all the time). Didn't expect that they would
have
> financial difficulties (maybe the management is the big expense as in
> many companies now-a-days?)
Those were the number of current licenses for Altium Designer, mentioned
in a company report a year or so ago. Basically, their main source of
income. They slashed their prices a couple of years ago, so they won't
be getting anything like $5k per license.
