Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●October 29, 20042004-10-29
<spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1099073798.697356.67320@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> > >
> > Much lower cost in volume. < $5 possible.
> > There are people that work on Dynamic Link Libraries allowing the
> code to be
> > expanded.
> > The AT94KxxAX series will have an external databus, allowing you to
> easily
> > expand the data (but not the instruction)
> > It runs at 40 Mhz so the part could conceivable run an interpreter in
> the
> > internal RAM
> > and load code from the external memory.
>
>
> So does this AX part exist somewhere? I can't find any info on it at
> the web site. Is there a data sheet? What size is the $5 part and
> what "volume". Can you project price for 1000 quantity on a part with
> 20 K gates? I know the current AL line does not have that size, so if
> the AX doesn't as well, I would need to bump up to the 40K gate part.
>
> Will the part be pin compatible or are you going to a new socket?
> Also, are you adding any new packages? The QFP208 is a very large
> package. A 256 pin BGA would be nice.
>
will = futurum, but I have seen STK594s with AX chips running.
The first chip will be the 10, followed by the 40 and then the 05.
I think you have to wait until next year for the 40.
They are pin compatible with the AL series, but need 1.8V core Vcc.
There should be an app note on Atmels Website how to use the AL until AX is
available.
There will be new (smaller) packages.
I think the AT94Sxx are in 256 BGA, with the configurator internally.
The System Design speed has improved quite a lot with the latest patch.
Did not work so well when AVR Studio 4 was first released, since Studio
stole all the CPU.
I wrote an QSPI app note and I estimate that the Modelsim/AVR Studio
coverification
runs 10-15 x faster than the original 2.0.
Pricing you have to get from your local Atmel source.
I get slapped on the fingers if I do pricing.
--
Best Regard
Ulf Samuelsson
Reply by ●October 29, 20042004-10-29
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> >
> Much lower cost in volume. < $5 possible.
> There are people that work on Dynamic Link Libraries allowing the
code to be
> expanded.
> The AT94KxxAX series will have an external databus, allowing you to
easily
> expand the data (but not the instruction)
> It runs at 40 Mhz so the part could conceivable run an interpreter in
the
> internal RAM
> and load code from the external memory.
So does this AX part exist somewhere? I can't find any info on it at
the web site. Is there a data sheet? What size is the $5 part and
what "volume". Can you project price for 1000 quantity on a part with
20 K gates? I know the current AL line does not have that size, so if
the AX doesn't as well, I would need to bump up to the 40K gate part.
Will the part be pin compatible or are you going to a new socket?
Also, are you adding any new packages? The QFP208 is a very large
package. A 256 pin BGA would be nice.
Reply by Linnix●October 24, 20042004-10-24
Roger Larsson <roger.larsson@skelleftea.mail.telia.com> wrote in message news:<JUged.107079$dP1.403045@newsc.telia.net>...
> LOC wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> > following reqiurement:
> > 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> > FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
>
> That is not so small. It depends on what more you need on the board...
>
> > 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> > the rest for IO and state machine, input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
CPLD is more than enough for this.
>
> Why do you need a FPGA? Timing? With a 32 bit microcontroller/DSP
> you can read 32 signals in one external read. An then make any
> manipulaton you like internally. (Using internal memory only)
No existing microcontroller can deal with 100 MHz, not even 128 bits
bus.
>
> > 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
>
> 32 bit microcontrollers are more likely to have serial ports and USB.
> (why both BTW?)
> And these have to fit on the board too, I guess.
>
> /RogerL
Reply by Roger Larsson●October 22, 20042004-10-22
LOC wrote:
> Hi all,
> What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> following reqiurement:
> 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
That is not so small. It depends on what more you need on the board...
> 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> the rest for IO and state machine, input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
Why do you need a FPGA? Timing? With a 32 bit microcontroller/DSP
you can read 32 signals in one external read. An then make any
manipulaton you like internally. (Using internal memory only)
> 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
32 bit microcontrollers are more likely to have serial ports and USB.
(why both BTW?)
And these have to fit on the board too, I guess.
/RogerL
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●October 22, 20042004-10-22
"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet
news:ZTYcd.12321$mZ2.756293@news02.tsnz.net...
> slawc wrote:
> > Amontec, Larry wrote:
> >
> >> LOC wrote:
> >
> >
> >> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
> >> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
>
> Digikey show the smallest ones ~$20, and the largest ones ~$70.
> (excludes the external loader prom)
>
> Note these devices have a hard-ceiling to their relatively small
> code size of 8K/16K opcodes.
> Go past that, and it's drop-dead time....
> -jg
>
Much lower cost in volume. < $5 possible.
There are people that work on Dynamic Link Libraries allowing the code to be
expanded.
The AT94KxxAX series will have an external databus, allowing you to easily
expand the data (but not the instruction)
It runs at 40 Mhz so the part could conceivable run an interpreter in the
internal RAM
and load code from the external memory.
--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.
Reply by jetmarc●October 22, 20042004-10-22
> >Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
>
> Devices are fairly cheap (<$10) but devtools are a couple of $K+
The AT94STK FPSLIC evaluation board comes with 6 months of tools
license. This includes Leonardo VHDL synthesis, Mentor Modelsim
(supports co-simulation of FPGA logic and your system software),
and Atmels proprietary Figaro place & route software. The AT94STK
retails for 300 or 500 Dollars, ask your distributor.
Someone wrote a comment about the code space limit. This is true,
and its a really low limit for such a capable chip. On the other
hand, code (and VHDL logic as well) sits in RAM and can be
reprogrammed at runtime. How well that can work for you, depends
on the type of your project. Stuff that is very modularized can
be swapped in/out easily. Random code however can not (there is
no MMU).
Neither exists an interface for external RAM. You can certainly
add one in the FPGA area, and even faster than external SRAM on
normal AVRs. However, compiler support for such solutions does
not exist unless you develop it yourself (GCC anyone?). Otherwise
you have to live with copy-functions, that move data between
internal and external RAM (you can even implement DMA transfers
to reduce CPU load).
Marc
Reply by Jim Granville●October 18, 20042004-10-18
slawc wrote:
> Amontec, Larry wrote:
>
>> LOC wrote:
>
>
>> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
>> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
>
>
> Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
Digikey show the smallest ones ~$20, and the largest ones ~$70.
(excludes the external loader prom)
Note these devices have a hard-ceiling to their relatively small
code size of 8K/16K opcodes.
Go past that, and it's drop-dead time....
-jg
Reply by Mike Harrison●October 18, 20042004-10-18
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:18:46 +0200, slawc <slawc@emajl.si> wrote:
>Amontec, Larry wrote:
>> LOC wrote:
>
>> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
>> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
>
>Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
Devices are fairly cheap (<$10) but devtools are a couple of $K+
Reply by slawc●October 18, 20042004-10-18
Amontec, Larry wrote:
> LOC wrote:
> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
> Hi all,
> What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> following reqiurement:
> 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
> 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> the rest for IO and state machine, input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
> 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
> Any advice will be appreciated.
> Loc
This is quite a small logic resource.
Small uC + FPGA have been market failures, because they
could not match enough users requirements.
More flexible is to use a slightly larger FPGA, and a Soft-CPU
( which scales, and follows process), or to look at
ST STR711 family : USB+Ports+FLASH+SomeConfigLOGIC, ARM core
ST uPSD33xx family : USB+Ports+FLASH+SomeConfigLOGIC, Turbo51
or do a Two-package Solution (Which a FPGA+Loader is anyway)
SiLabs : USB+Ports+FLASH+Debug, small packages
plus a Small package CPLDs 64-128MC from Altera/Atmel/Xilinx/Lattice
-jg