"Jim Stewart" <jstewart@jkmicro.com> skrev i meddelandet 
news:c4ednbGj6aDOnB7YnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@omsoft.com...
> larwe wrote:
>> Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
>
>> However I am worried. I'm designing in AVR micros and DataFlash memory,
>> and a couple of other divisions use Atmel's RF transceivers. While I
>> think AVR will be "core", I'm not so sure about DataFlash (which has
>> lots of competition) and the RF stuff (which is niche-y and expensive).
>
> It is a concern.  I've been burned with
> fabless flash.  Might be good to look at
> ST's nand flash.
>

Stop using FPGA's then, they are almost all fabless.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB

"Jim" <tech@picmodules.com> skrev i meddelandet 
news:pWCgh.6027$xm1.1387@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "larwe" wrote:
>
> ...
>> However I am worried. I'm designing in AVR micros and DataFlash memory,
>> and a couple of other divisions use Atmel's RF transceivers. While I
>> think AVR will be "core", I'm not so sure about DataFlash (which has
>> lots of competition) and the RF stuff (which is niche-y and expensive).
>
> The RF stuff went in the sale to E2V,  although I have had a written 
> statement from E2V saying that they will continue the RF side (I've 
> designed into several products), I'm not too convinced. Time to look 
> elsewhere for longevity I think.
> Jim
>
E2V is part of the Atmel Grenoble facility, and many of the RF parts
are designed/manufactured in Heilbronn.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:24:23 +1300, Jim Granville
<no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> wrote:

[snipped]

>> 
>>     A free shell that "looks and feels "
>>  like WXP will make Linux totally  transparent .
>
>and that free Linux that everyone will be using, will run on what, exactly ?

On a virtual machine of course :-)

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1166335411.245410.208120@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
> werty wrote:
>
> In 2010 there will be probably more than 5%, though likely less than
> 10% more jobs in both hardware and software design, in first world
> countries (on a simple headcount basis).

The 20% of tech workers in Silcon Valley that lost their jobs in 2000
have permanently been pruned from the work force. Silicon Valley
companies are prospering and hiring again ... in India.

werty wrote:

> 
>   I do electronic design and have never used a PLD .....
>   It looks too much like proto typing !!
>   You cant sell proto types ....

No, PLDs are not used in prototypes; Try things
like some game controller interfaces, and cell phone
expansion units.

> 
>   Its all over , turn out the lights , the party is over for I.C.
> corporations .
>    We dont use what they make ....

Who is 'we' - are you more than one person ?

How do you think the newgroup posting you wrote, made its
way to my desk ?.

> 
>   By 2010 , 99%   S/W    90%  h/w    workers will be GONE !
>     The P4 will stop production , end of  2007 .
>    Microsoft will be out of business , no one will use its software ..
> 
> 
>     A free shell that "looks and feels "
>  like WXP will make Linux totally  transparent .

and that free Linux that everyone will be using, will run on what, exactly ?

-jg

werty wrote:

>     The P4 Pent' will not be made at end of  2007 .

That may be true, though I can't see why anyone here would give a rat's
ass about that particular part. It's obsolete in any case, having been
replaced by the Core family.

In 2010 there will be probably more than 5%, though likely less than
10% more jobs in both hardware and software design, in first world
countries (on a simple headcount basis).

You really need a new supplier of whatever drugs it is you're taking;
clearly your present connection is cutting the stuff with drain cleaner
or something of that ilk.

Come back when you've sobered up and wiped the rabid foam off your
chin, not before.


  I do electronic design and have never used a PLD .....
  It looks too much like proto typing !!
  You cant sell proto types ....

  Its all over , turn out the lights , the party is over for I.C.
corporations .
   We dont use what they make ....

  By 2010 , 99%   S/W    90%  h/w    workers will be GONE !
    The P4 will stop production , end of  2007 .
   Microsoft will be out of business , no one will use its software ..


    A free shell that "looks and feels "
 like WXP will make Linux totally  transparent .










Jim Granville wrote:
> Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:45:14 +1300, Jim Granville
> > <no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>steve wrote:
> >>
> >>>http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6399448&ref=nbednn
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yes, that's the exit statement.
> >>No mention of what products will be impacted ?
> >>
> >>
> >>Here is the entry statement, 6yrs ago :
> >>
> >>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WVI/is_2000_Sept_25/ai_65568508
> >>
> >>Shows these stats, (at end Sept 2000)
> >>Atmel's current fab line-up
> >>                   Wafer size  Processes   Area (sq m)  Status
> >>Colorado Springs, US  6in      0.5 micro m    41,805    Running
> >>Heilbronn, Germany    6in      0.5 micro m   ~10,000    Running
> >>Nantes, France        6in      0.5 micro m   ~10,000    Running
> >>Rousset, France       8in      0.35           36,045    Running, but
> >>                               0.25 micro m,            not complete
> >>                               0.18 micro m
> >>Irving, Texas, US     8in      0.18 micro m   60,385    Running from
> >>                                                        Q1 2001
> >>North Tyneside, UK    8in      0.35,          39,099    Running from
> >>                               0.25 micro m             Q2 2001
> >
> >
> > So they are dumping part of their .5u and .35u+.25u facilities.
>
> Note that was at Sept 2000, so they will be more advanced now.
> Heilbronn, IIRC, is their Automotive products.
> The Nantes fab I think went about 1 year ago.
> This is a bit more up to date
> http://www.cadence.com/company/success_stories/atmel1_ss.pdf
>
> >
> > Jim, there's an old thing I learned a long time ago.  You don't buy
> > your own stock back.  If the best you can do with your active company
> > cash is buy back your stock from passive investors, if you can't do
> > better with the money than those feeble expectations would have from
> > the money, you simply shouldn't be in business at all.  If worried
> > about LBOs, go into debt by investing in a new product line or
> > something.  But don't buy your own stock back.  It's money you've
> > pried out of their hands and you had better be able to make it work in
> > an active business better than they can as mere passive investors.  A
> > company _sells_ stock because it can use the money better than others
> > can, in some passive savings account.
> >
> > This smacks of that, to me.  If a company making ICs can't use their
> > FABs as well as they can use the money they will get for selling them,
> > they probably shouldn't be in the business of running FABs at all.
> > This "Fab lite" policy worries me.  What about you?
>
>   Well, it is the opposite trend to someone like Microchip. We might all
> grumble about the PIC core, but you have to be impressed by Microchip's
> ability to make money from what is not leading edge stuff, and to
> make money on one of the lowest ASPs in the industry.
>
>   The other end of the scale is someone like SiLabs (fabless)
> and companies like Zilog, and even Freescale are also moving "fab lite".
> I believe all Zilog's new Flash devices are foundry.
>
>   Where it bites, is when your designs use a chip that was in
> the FAB that closed, and it used a process that has not been moved to a
> foundry :(
>
>   Some recent-memory examples of this, were Philips Coolrunner cplds, and
> AMD SPLDs. In those cases, the fab-rug was pulled, terminating products
> earlier than normal.
> 
> -jg

 The World  has too many people making too many widgets .
  The demand is not there ...
 The oversupply of workers is 10 times the demand ..

   We dont need Intel , nor Microsoft , nor AMD , ATMEL , H.P.
MicroChip   and hundreds more .

    The P4 Pent' will not be made at end of  2007 .

   Linux  will get a free shell , useable by common people , you
   wont know you are using Linux .   Free ....

  Do you understand what FREE means !!!!

 It makes that 10 times too many workers look like
    1000 times too many workers !!

     Our schools teach that if you get skilled , there will be a job .
 But if machines succeed in doing what those educational systems
 say they will ,      where's the "job"?!!
 , no modern machine needs  a $20/hour worker to push its button ,
 turn its crank ..

   . Thus all  machine jobs , go offshore at $1/hour .
  Do you want to work in  Honduras ?!!

   I laugh when i read Detroit auto workers get $2/hour raise .
  In a free market system , its IMPOSSIBLE to get a job
  in a successful country , all jobs are pushed OFFSHORE
  for labor rates !!
  Just wait til the govt has to shut down all China imports ,
 foe screaming US workers "We want our jobs back " but
 finds they were not makin profits , cause China was subsidized
  by US tax payers/investors  !! It was all phony ...

   Next time you see Intel or Ford workers punching the clock ,
     "see" phony , govt "forced" occupations , that will bankrupt
  the USA in 2015 .

   The USA will lose 250 million jobs .....

 The new "skill" will be capitalist , but  so competitive , you must
earn $10 million min' , just to live here ..
  Rich  people from all over the world will rush here ....

___________________________________________________________

larwe wrote:
> Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
>
> > This smacks of that, to me.  If a company making ICs can't use their
> > FABs as well as they can use the money they will get for selling them,
> > they probably shouldn't be in the business of running FABs at all.
> > This "Fab lite" policy worries me.  What about you?
>
> While I don't fundamentally disagree with anything you've said, I'd
> like to point out that there is more to making chips than just a bunch
> of equipment and some guy feeding it design files. There is recipe
> magic and tribal knowledge that might be impossible to transfer to
> other facilities.
>
> In that vein, some fabs may be staffed solely to provide the
> manufacturing magic that supports a product line that isn't profitable.
> Some of these facilities might be in Atmel's portfolio because of
> acquisitions; i.e. the money shouldn't have been spent.
>
> The implication from this announcement is that Atmel has excess
> production capacity and/or some very underperforming product lines,
> neither of which are immediate signs Atmel should get out of the
> business; merely signs they need to understand their markets better and
> manage their acquisitions with greater care.
>
> However I am worried. I'm designing in AVR micros and DataFlash memory,
> and a couple of other divisions use Atmel's RF transceivers. While I
> think AVR will be "core", I'm not so sure about DataFlash (which has
> lots of competition) and the RF stuff (which is niche-y and expensive).

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:36:20 +1300, Jim Granville
<no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> wrote:

>Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
>> One of the really sad things here is that we are talking about 1300
>> employees, as well.  It takes a lot of effort to get employees into a
>> company, give them desks, walls, phone service, as well as all the
>> time invested in the various relationships.  All this goes away.
><snip>
>
>  I think the norm is to sell the fabs as 'going concerns', (or
>similar to the Nantes sale) - so that means not all the jobs
>go away.
>  Indeed, as you see when Atmel brought Tynside 6 years ago,
>it came with a loading commitment from Infineon.
>  I think that is also common, and in both the buyers and sellers 
>interests in the short term at least.

That's good news to hear.

Thanks,
Jon