On Jan 7, 2:05 am, "Donald Harris" <harris...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Sal P." <polif...@comcast.net> wrote in messagenews:1168140628.936388.252680@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sal P. wrote:
> >> Mike Harrison wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:19:47 GMT, "Donald Harris"
> >> > <harris...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> > >"larwe" <zwsdot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > >> Sal P. wrote:
>
> >> > >>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks
> >> > >>> with
> >> > >>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and
> >> > >>> were
>
> >> > This might be worth a serious look :
> >> >http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241
> >> > Essentially a digital camera in module form that you can get control
> >> > over with a microcontroller.
> >> > You should be able to control this more ieasily than a ready made
> >> > camera as it has a documented
> >> > interface.
>
> >> > >> By the way:
>
> >> > >> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokC...>
>
> >> > >> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V
> >> > >> battery
> >> > >> kit and have most/all of the features you need.
>
> >> > >The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would
> >> > >probably
> >> > >be better.
>
> >> > If it really needs to be a beam, then you should be able to use a
> >> > pretty low duty cycle - e.g. a
> >> > 100us pulse  once per second, with detector wakeup time would probably
> >> > avarage something like 50uA.
>
> >> Thanks to everyone for your input and excellent suggestions.
> >> Both converting an existing camera and the  camera module seem like
> >> they are worth pursuing, and from everyones response it seems that the
> >> concept is feasible.
>
> >> My next step is to actually build a prototype, can you recommend any
> >> literature or website which will help me figure out the pieces I need
> >> (I'm not an electrical engineer)?.
>
> >> Thanks for all the help so far.
> >> Sal Polifemo
>
> > I started looking at some of the sites mentioned in this thread and I
> > think I'm starting to get an idea of what I need.
> > What are you opinions on the following starting configuration
> > CMOS camera: C328-7640 from
> >http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2517/.f?sc=8&category=241
> > SD storage: DOSONACHIP with a 512MB media card
> > Microcontroller: ??
>
> > I'm not sure which microcontroller to choose, I'm assuming it needs 2
> > serial channels and some memory  to store the image while its copying
> > it from the camera to storage.
> > I see that the various chips are programmed in assembler, visual basic,
> > and others.  Is the programming language of the chip something to
> > consider? I already know how to program in C,
>
> > Again, thanks for your input.
> > Sal PolifemoBy the time you buy the camera module, the DosOnChip module and build a
> microcontroller module and then add a PIR sensor, you could buy a Game
> Camera much cheaper.  Check out the Wildview or Game Watcher.  They are less
> than $100.
>
> Don


The wildview camera is worth a closer look, I forwarded the info to the
group to get theyre comments.

I still want to go forward with the prototype, looking at this long
term there are possibilities for image recognition applications and
this would be a good foundation for that.

I'm interested in you opinions on which microcontroller to choose, for
the moment I'm only interested in copying the image  from the camera
module to the SD storage device.

Again thanks for the help.

"Sal P." <polifemo@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:1168140628.936388.252680@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sal P. wrote:
>> Mike Harrison wrote:
>> > On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:19:47 GMT, "Donald Harris" 
>> > <harrisdw1@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > >news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > >>
>> > >> Sal P. wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks 
>> > >>> with
>> > >>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and 
>> > >>> were
>> >
>> > This might be worth a serious look :
>> > http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241
>> > Essentially a digital camera in module form that you can get control 
>> > over with a microcontroller.
>> > You should be able to control this more ieasily than a ready made 
>> > camera as it has a documented
>> > interface.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> By the way:
>> > >>
>> > >> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>
>> > >>
>> > >> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V 
>> > >> battery
>> > >> kit and have most/all of the features you need.
>> > >
>> > >The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would 
>> > >probably
>> > >be better.
>> >
>> > If it really needs to be a beam, then you should be able to use a 
>> > pretty low duty cycle - e.g. a
>> > 100us pulse  once per second, with detector wakeup time would probably 
>> > avarage something like 50uA.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for your input and excellent suggestions.
>> Both converting an existing camera and the  camera module seem like
>> they are worth pursuing, and from everyones response it seems that the
>> concept is feasible.
>>
>> My next step is to actually build a prototype, can you recommend any
>> literature or website which will help me figure out the pieces I need
>> (I'm not an electrical engineer)?.
>>
>> Thanks for all the help so far.
>> Sal Polifemo
>
> I started looking at some of the sites mentioned in this thread and I
> think I'm starting to get an idea of what I need.
> What are you opinions on the following starting configuration
> CMOS camera: C328-7640 from
> http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2517/.f?sc=8&category=241
> SD storage: DOSONACHIP with a 512MB media card
> Microcontroller: ??
>
> I'm not sure which microcontroller to choose, I'm assuming it needs 2
> serial channels and some memory  to store the image while its copying
> it from the camera to storage.
> I see that the various chips are programmed in assembler, visual basic,
> and others.  Is the programming language of the chip something to
> consider? I already know how to program in C,
>
> Again, thanks for your input.
> Sal Polifemo

By the time you buy the camera module, the DosOnChip module and build a 
microcontroller module and then add a PIR sensor, you could buy a Game 
Camera much cheaper.  Check out the Wildview or Game Watcher.  They are less 
than $100.

Don

Sal P. wrote:
> Mike Harrison wrote:
> > On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:19:47 GMT, "Donald Harris" <harrisdw1@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >>
> > >> Sal P. wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
> > >>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were
> >
> > This might be worth a serious look :
> > http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241
> > Essentially a digital camera in module form that you can get control over with a microcontroller.
> > You should be able to control this more ieasily than a ready made camera as it has a documented
> > interface.
> >
> >
> >
> > >> By the way:
> > >>
> > >> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>
> > >>
> > >> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V battery
> > >> kit and have most/all of the features you need.
> > >
> > >The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would probably
> > >be better.
> >
> > If it really needs to be a beam, then you should be able to use a pretty low duty cycle - e.g. a
> > 100us pulse  once per second, with detector wakeup time would probably avarage something like 50uA.
>
> Thanks to everyone for your input and excellent suggestions.
> Both converting an existing camera and the  camera module seem like
> they are worth pursuing, and from everyones response it seems that the
> concept is feasible.
>
> My next step is to actually build a prototype, can you recommend any
> literature or website which will help me figure out the pieces I need
> (I'm not an electrical engineer)?.
>
> Thanks for all the help so far.
> Sal Polifemo

I started looking at some of the sites mentioned in this thread and I
think I'm starting to get an idea of what I need.
What are you opinions on the following starting configuration
CMOS camera: C328-7640 from
http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2517/.f?sc=8&category=241
SD storage: DOSONACHIP with a 512MB media card
Microcontroller: ??

I'm not sure which microcontroller to choose, I'm assuming it needs 2
serial channels and some memory  to store the image while its copying
it from the camera to storage.
I see that the various chips are programmed in assembler, visual basic,
and others.  Is the programming language of the chip something to
consider? I already know how to program in C,

Again, thanks for your input.
Sal Polifemo

Mike Harrison wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:19:47 GMT, "Donald Harris" <harrisdw1@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> Sal P. wrote:
> >>
> >>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
> >>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were
>
> This might be worth a serious look :
> http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241
> Essentially a digital camera in module form that you can get control over with a microcontroller.
> You should be able to control this more ieasily than a ready made camera as it has a documented
> interface.
>
>
>
> >> By the way:
> >>
> >> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>
> >>
> >> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V battery
> >> kit and have most/all of the features you need.
> >
> >The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would probably
> >be better.
>
> If it really needs to be a beam, then you should be able to use a pretty low duty cycle - e.g. a
> 100us pulse  once per second, with detector wakeup time would probably avarage something like 50uA.

Thanks to everyone for your input and excellent suggestions.
Both converting an existing camera and the  camera module seem like
they are worth pursuing, and from everyones response it seems that the
concept is feasible.

My next step is to actually build a prototype, can you recommend any
literature or website which will help me figure out the pieces I need
(I'm not an electrical engineer)?.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Sal Polifemo

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:19:47 GMT, "Donald Harris" <harrisdw1@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Sal P. wrote:
>>
>>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
>>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were

This might be worth a serious look : 
http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241
Essentially a digital camera in module form that you can get control over with a microcontroller. 
You should be able to control this more ieasily than a ready made camera as it has a documented
interface. 



>> By the way:
>>
>> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>
>>
>> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V battery
>> kit and have most/all of the features you need.
>
>The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would probably 
>be better.

If it really needs to be a beam, then you should be able to use a pretty low duty cycle - e.g. a
100us pulse  once per second, with detector wakeup time would probably avarage something like 50uA.

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1168056271.111695.144970@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sal P. wrote:
>
>> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
>> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were
>
> By the way:
>
> <http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>
>
> there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V battery
> kit and have most/all of the features you need.

The IR beam would be the largest current drain.  A PIR sensor would probably 
be better.

 I built a "Game Camera" for a friend.  I modified an X-10 wireless motion 
sensor and a film camera to photograph day or night.  The 2 AA cells in the 
camera and 2 AAA cells in the motion sensor would run for months or until 
the film ran out.  You can now buy "Game Cameras" for less than $100 at 
Wal-Mart.

 It would be easy to modify a cheap digital camera to operate with the 
motion sensor.  Most digital cameras are fired by a simple switch closure to 
ground.  The other problem with most digital cameras is that they shut down 
after a short period of inaction.  It would have to be activated again 
before a photo can be taken.

The mod to the motion sensor was the addition of another PIC12C509 on top of 
the existing PIC.  The addition sensed the output to the RF section and 
pulled the contact in the camera to ground for 1 second.  I added a delay of 
3 minutes between shots.  The delay eliminates the second RF message from 
firing the camera again one minute later.  The camera mod was just bringing 
the "shutter" button contacts out.

Don

In article <1168047564.778423.51240@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Sal P. 
says...
> Robert Adsett wrote:
> > How about adding more external storage?  Replace the batteries with some
> > sort of adapter to an external plug and add external storage.  Then your
> > only limited by what you can carry in.
> They take many cameras in with them, and they need to carry theyre
> supplies along with the cameras, so weight becomes an issue ( along
> with cost ).

Hmm, Cost is less likely an issue than weight.  You could probably run 
off pretty close to the leakage current of a decent lead acid battery, 
you'd want to have someting to trundle it in on though.

Any chance of using solar cells as a supplement?  Might not be cheap 
enough though.

Robert

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sal P. wrote:

> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were

By the way:

<http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/scoutingcameras.html?gclid=CMfvnYX0yokCFQ-9VAodLgnAPA>

there are a couple of cameras here that accept an external 12V battery
kit and have most/all of the features you need.

Sal P. wrote:

> My idea is to use only the necessary components to be able to take B/W
> still pictures during daylight when triggered ( IR beam being broken)
> at a max rate of rate of 1 per minute.
> The subjects will be 3 to 12 feet away from the camera.
> Then store the image on SD or some other kind of storage device.

Consumer DSCs mostly have quite a long wakeup time. There are a _few_
that wake up very quickly, but it's quite a challenging application.
What is the cost target for this device?

Since you only want a small quantity, a hand-rolled solution seems
best. I would suggest using a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ5 camera in a
waterproof housing. In order to get your desired battery life, you
would remove the LCD from the camera, and use an external circuit to
switch the camera on and off (and provide the +3V it requires). Your
estimated BOM for such a lash-up would probably be in the neighborhood
of $300 per camera.

(Note: Simply keeping your IR beam alive with a 100% duty cycle is
pretty greedy over three weeks. The game cameras used by hunters for
this application use a PIR sensor, I believe).

"Sal P." <polifemo@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:1168040208.303094.220510@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> I am helping a local wildlife conservation group research the the
> feasibility of a digital camera which can last for about 3 weeks with
> out being recharged (they approached a few camera companies and were
> told that the number of cameras ordered would be too low for them to be
> interested).
>
> The camera will be located outdoors in a wooded area with no access to
> power, and the 3 week time frame is only if the storage is not maxed
> out first.
>
> My idea is to use only the necessary components to be able to take B/W
> still pictures during daylight when triggered ( IR beam being broken)
> at a max rate of rate of 1 per minute.
> The subjects will be 3 to 12 feet away from the camera.
> Then store the image on SD or some other kind of storage device.
>
> I am assuming that by doing away with LCD screens and misc. functions
> this is a feasible project.
>
> The main problem with the commercial cameras is that they draw power
> even when they are not taking pictures, currently they use standard
> film cameras with IR sensors to trigger the shutter.
>
>
> If some one could point me in the right direction, I sure would
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
> Sal Polifemo

How small does it have to be ?

mobotix.com ip camera - m22
+ inverter and decent sized sla

camera can be powered from 30V 45mA
(wall wart)

Are weatherproof
http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/references/webcam/weather_documentation

The mobotix cameras can take jpegs or stream images
also have a microphone builtin and can record sound or be triggered from 
sound.
The new ones have the ability to store to cf as well as storing 64MB of 
images internally.
Can connect other sensors / trigger via serial/usb.
Can turn themselves on and off via time tasks.

Probably wouldn't want the standard lens as its usually to wide an angle.

Cameras from trigger themselves using motion detection (ir or video window).

Can even hook them up to an access point and use them as a webcam
in a couple of minutes.

I believe there are a coup,e of mobotix partners that can supply a complete 
system
with solar panels and wireless AP, ready to roll.

Very easy to capture images from and c

At work we are using these cameras for car park mangement systems
and bridge monitoring with license plate recognition.

You can find quite a few of the mobotic cameras on the web

http://www.martingrund.de/pinguine/index.htm penguin cam in antartica

http://www.schneefernerhaus.de/e-ufs.htm
http://217.24.53.18/
http://limes.verwaltung.uni-bonn.de/
http://81.75.78.45/

Alex