Reply by kanna April 24, 20072007-04-24
>On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, David Kelly <n...@Yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > Since when is it an engineer's or hobbyists job to give
manufacturer's
>> > a fair shake? >> >> Because that is EXACTLY your job, to have an open mind to all
solutions.
>> In a free-market economy this is everyone's job. > >In business reality, you only have so much time to pick a solution. > >Usually, that means that if you find one with no major objections, you >just go with that. > >If you don't find one your like, then you carefully survey a few >choices which comes close and pick the one that is least objectionable >in terms of its not meeting your desired learning curve, development >time, tool cost, unit cost, performance, etc... > >If you are in a development cost dominated business, you will of >course see things very differently than if you are in a unit cost >dominated business. > > > >
I have been reading, with great interest, this chain which answered many of my questions. Now, (as somebody was saying in this chain - forget hc12 but concentrate on what you can do), concentrating on list of simple projects to do - basically to jumpstart - does any one have any step by step instructions on some of the projects? The first LED blinking will help me push the supposedly easier part;-) Thank you.
Reply by February 27, 20072007-02-27
On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, David Kelly <n...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Since when is it an engineer's or hobbyists job to give manufacturer's > > a fair shake? > > Because that is EXACTLY your job, to have an open mind to all solutions. > In a free-market economy this is everyone's job.
In business reality, you only have so much time to pick a solution. Usually, that means that if you find one with no major objections, you just go with that. If you don't find one your like, then you carefully survey a few choices which comes close and pick the one that is least objectionable in terms of its not meeting your desired learning curve, development time, tool cost, unit cost, performance, etc... If you are in a development cost dominated business, you will of course see things very differently than if you are in a unit cost dominated business.
Reply by David Kelly February 27, 20072007-02-27
cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:37 am, David Kelly <n...@Yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Suggest you concentrate less on "learning HC12" and more on learning how >> to solve problems with a microcontroller. Then in the future you will be >> prepared for the toughest and riskiest part of the design process: >> defining your requirements and shopping for solutions. If every problem >> looks like an HC12 solution, or PIC, or AVR, then you are not really >> giving others a fair shake. > > Since when is it an engineer's or hobbyists job to give manufacturer's > a fair shake?
Because that is EXACTLY your job, to have an open mind to all solutions. In a free-market economy this is everyone's job. For example, I have need of connecting a couple of digital inputs to a legacy application. Pressing two keys on a keyboard would suffice. So in the short term I'm going to modify USB keyboards as a 2nd USB keyboard usually works in parallel on both Mac and PC. In opening USB keyboards I may find a readily available USB keyboard chip that could be used beyond the prototype stage. Else I'll have to make something. Usually an AVR is the quickest thing I can program and debug. But Atmel isn't there yet with USB AVRs that debug with plain JTAG ICE or Dragon. I no longer have a JTAG ICE mkII. And $15 qty 1 DigiKey price for AT90USB shipping chips is not attractive. AVR isn't there yet and its not my job to bend over backwards making it so. I have an HC08 USB kit which needs to be considered. Lots of USB on ARM. Maybe I need to make an ARM-based 2-key keyboard? :-) Anyone hack a USB mouse microcontroller? Would like to use the mouse buttons but they can't be seen as mouse buttons to the host computer OS.
Reply by February 26, 20072007-02-26
On Feb 26, 8:51 am, Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> By working with the MCU I mean working on the real device. To do that, > one needs a standalone BDM and a software to it at the least. Playing > with the eval board is worseless. The eval board can be interesting only > as a reference design.
Think again. If the eval board fits in the box, and costs less than building a custom one... ;-)
Reply by Andy Sinclair February 26, 20072007-02-26
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>> I have a Freescale HCS12X demo board on my desk which has a P&E BDM >> built in and is only $85 from digikey (DEMO9S12XDT512). >> > >By working with the MCU I mean working on the real device. To do that, >one needs a standalone BDM and a software to it at the least. Playing >with the eval board is worseless. The eval board can be interesting only >as a reference design.
The demo board has an external BDM connector and can be used to communicate with a standalone device with a small modification. Andy
Reply by Yvan BOURNE February 26, 20072007-02-26
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> a &#2013265929;crit dans le message 
de news: NBBEh.1750$jx3.844@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> > > Andy Sinclair wrote: > > >> >> I have a Freescale HCS12X demo board on my desk which has a P&E BDM >> built in and is only $85 from digikey (DEMO9S12XDT512). >> > > By working with the MCU I mean working on the real device. To do that, one > needs a standalone BDM and a software to it at the least. Playing with the > eval board is worseless. The eval board can be interesting only as a > reference design. > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > > http://www.abvolt.com
Hi, Several eval boards (9S08QG8, 9SGB60 for example) contains a 6 pins connector to program / debug an external target just by adding a 6 net wires. It work with 9s08 and 9s12. Yvan ********************** http://www.ybdesign.fr **********************
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky February 26, 20072007-02-26

Andy Sinclair wrote:


> > I have a Freescale HCS12X demo board on my desk which has a P&E BDM > built in and is only $85 from digikey (DEMO9S12XDT512). >
By working with the MCU I mean working on the real device. To do that, one needs a standalone BDM and a software to it at the least. Playing with the eval board is worseless. The eval board can be interesting only as a reference design. Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by Andy Sinclair February 26, 20072007-02-26
cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:
>A "cheap solution" would be the $99 P&E pod and the 32k code size >limit special edition of codewarrior (free) - including a source level >debugger. > >As for the question of recommending it... the coldfire boards from >freescale have a P&E pod built into them... I think we actually >purchased our HCS12 ones through freescale, though I'll have to check >the records to see if that is true. It's pretty obviously - official >or not quite - the recommended step up from serial port only. >Obviously there are more full featured solutions avaiable too.
I have a Freescale HCS12X demo board on my desk which has a P&E BDM built in and is only $85 from digikey (DEMO9S12XDT512). Andy
Reply by February 24, 20072007-02-24
On Feb 24, 12:27 pm, Oliver Betz <O...@despammed.com> wrote:
> cs_post...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> >4. To start working with HCS12, you need a BDM programmer from PE micro. > > >> Definitely no. > > >> Look athttp://www.noicedebugger.com/forcheap solutions. NoICE and > >> ComPOD12 NG are a good start, cost is 300EUR. > > >Last time I checked exchange rates, 300EUR was a lot more than the > >99US price of a P&E USB BDM pod recommended by freescale. > > For the EUR300 you get also the great NoICE source level debugger, so > the difference is less.
A "cheap solution" would be the $99 P&E pod and the 32k code size limit special edition of codewarrior (free) - including a source level debugger. The cheapskate soution would be trying to get by with no BDM pod at all. On that at least we seem in agreement.
> You definitely _want_ it because BDM (offering non-intrusive memory > access) is one of the nicest things in the HCS12.
As for the question of recommending it... the coldfire boards from freescale have a P&E pod built into them... I think we actually purchased our HCS12 ones through freescale, though I'll have to check the records to see if that is true. It's pretty obviously - official or not quite - the recommended step up from serial port only. Obviously there are more full featured solutions avaiable too.
Reply by Oliver Betz February 24, 20072007-02-24
cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:

>> >4. To start working with HCS12, you need a BDM programmer from PE micro. >> >> Definitely no. >> >> Look athttp://www.noicedebugger.com/for cheap solutions. NoICE and >> ComPOD12 NG are a good start, cost is 300EUR. > >Last time I checked exchange rates, 300EUR was a lot more than the >99US price of a P&E USB BDM pod recommended by freescale.
For the EUR300 you get also the great NoICE source level debugger, so the difference is less. Where does Freescale "recommend" the P&E interface?
>You don't absolutely need a pod, but you will save yourself a lot of
you _need_ it if you buy a bare S12 chip because they come without any loader or debugger. You don't need it if you buy a development board and don't erase the bootloader. You definitely _want_ it because BDM (offering non-intrusive memory access) is one of the nicest things in the HCS12. Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Muenchen (oliverbetz.de)