>> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
>> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>>
>> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
>> information to the host.
that's waht I meant by "As far as I see, they all need an interrupt
routine to send information to the host".
>What you are looking for is called history. A bond out emulator were
No.
>every bus, including the internal memory bus is accessible to an
>outside supervisor processor. This supervisor can watch all memories
>but as soon as you try to modify anything, you will interfere with
>real-time. This concept has two major disadvantages: Number one, it is
>too expensive, number two, it is too expensive ;-) actually number tow
Read about the Freescale BDM in the HC(S)12 and the S08. It reads from
target memory usually without any effect on the target. The Coldfire
BDM also reads from a running target, but this causes a slight delay.
Certainly they let me also write to the target memory, but that's no
more "non-intrusive" <g>.
But it's a great tool during system test and optimization. I put many
settings or status indicators in global variables during development
and can test and tweak the system like I test and tweak hardware with
a scope and trimpots on a breadboard.
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Munich
despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by ●May 24, 20072007-05-24
On May 18, 4:06 am, Oliver Betz <o...@despammed.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>
> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
> information to the host.
>
> Maybe I didn't search hard enough?
>
> Oliver
> --
> Oliver Betz, Munich
> despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
OK,
I'll give it one more shot. Have a look here:
http://www.keil.com/support/man/docs/ulink2/ulink2_realtime_agent.asp?bhcp=1
This program, the real-time agent will work during your "idle task"
and display or even modify memory.
What you are looking for is called history. A bond out emulator were
every bus, including the internal memory bus is accessible to an
outside supervisor processor. This supervisor can watch all memories
but as soon as you try to modify anything, you will interfere with
real-time. This concept has two major disadvantages: Number one, it is
too expensive, number two, it is too expensive ;-) actually number tow
is that bond-out chips and production chips were always a little
diffrerent, so sometimes you debugged the bondout for problems that
your real device did not have and sometimes the bondout did not show
the problem of your real device. It is a good thing that this is part
of microcontroller history!
Robert
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●May 22, 20072007-05-22
"Robert Adsett" <sub2@aeolusdevelopment.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:MPG.20bd3887a07a829c989743@free.teranews.com...
> In article <464fa64b.158417832@z1.oliverbetz.de>, Oliver Betz says...
>> Jim Granville wrote:
>>
>> >> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
>> >> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>> >>
>> >> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
>> >> information to the host.
>>
>> >"non-intrusive realtime memory access" in debug is quite a big ask.
>>
>> Let's call it "nearly non intrusive" or "without ISR".
>
> What about trace instead? The NXP variants at least provide access to
> trace via the ETM. Not the same as being able to query a memory
> location directly but it may get you what you need and it doesn't stop
> the micro, unlike JTAG access.
>
> Robert
>
> --
Trace will not allow you to modify variables...
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by Robert Adsett●May 22, 20072007-05-22
In article <464fa64b.158417832@z1.oliverbetz.de>, Oliver Betz says...
> Jim Granville wrote:
>
> >> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
> >> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
> >>
> >> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
> >> information to the host.
>
> >"non-intrusive realtime memory access" in debug is quite a big ask.
>
> Let's call it "nearly non intrusive" or "without ISR".
What about trace instead? The NXP variants at least provide access to
trace via the ETM. Not the same as being able to query a memory
location directly but it may get you what you need and it doesn't stop
the micro, unlike JTAG access.
Robert
--
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Reply by Oliver Betz●May 22, 20072007-05-22
"Ulf Samuelsson" wrote:
>>>>> The AVR32 based uC3000 series will support this.
[...]
>> But the AVR32 isn't an ARM7 derivative, as requested by the OP, is it?
>Yes, but he asked for something which does not exist.
>The ARM JTAG will halt the CPU during accesses.
You mean that there are no ARM7 derivatives allowing background memory
access? Paul Gotch mentioned "Coresight" last year, but I don't know
whether it does what I mean.
Anyway, I'm 99% sure now to use a MCF5213 - not only for the debugging
but also because it has a pretty fast A/D-Converter.
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Munich
despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●May 22, 20072007-05-22
>>>> The AVR32 based uC3000 series will support this.
>>>
>>> Any more details Ulf ?
>>> Is this on registers only, on chip RAM memory, FLASH memory ?
>>> - the debug core has to get a time-slice to access the memory,
>>> so does the AVR32 have such 'spare' time slots ?
>>>
>>> -jg
>>>
>>
>>
>> The uC3000 has a bus matrix so if the CPU is not accessing a resource
>> it is accessible to the debug unit.
>> I do not know the exact details.
>
> But the AVR32 isn't an ARM7 derivative, as requested by the OP, is it?
>
> Peter
Yes, but he asked for something which does not exist.
The ARM JTAG will halt the CPU during accesses.
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by Oliver Betz●May 21, 20072007-05-21
RobertTeufelDUS@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
>there are many devices in the NXP LPC2000 family with ETM (Embedded
>Trace Macrocell). This provides an option to trace the execution in
>realtime without any CPU participation / distraction. The side effect
I don't konow the capabilities of the ETM, but "trace the execution"
is different from "access memory".
Again: I mainly want to watch and edit variables while the program is
running.
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Munich
despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by ●May 21, 20072007-05-21
On May 18, 4:06 am, Oliver Betz <o...@despammed.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>
> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
> information to the host.
>
> Maybe I didn't search hard enough?
>
> Oliver
> --
> Oliver Betz, Munich
> despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
Hi Oliver,
there are many devices in the NXP LPC2000 family with ETM (Embedded
Trace Macrocell). This provides an option to trace the execution in
realtime without any CPU participation / distraction. The side effect
is that you need to use 10 pins of the device and you need a trace
emulator. Lowest cost trace probably J-Trace from www.segger.com.
Robert
Reply by ●May 21, 20072007-05-21
On May 18, 4:06 am, Oliver Betz <o...@despammed.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
> derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>
> As far as I see, they all need an interrupt routine to send
> information to the host.
>
> Maybe I didn't search hard enough?
>
> Oliver
> --
> Oliver Betz, Munich
> despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:
Hi Oliver,
there are many devices in the NXP LPC2000 family with ETM (Embedded
Trace Macrocell). This provides an option to trace the execution in
realtime without any CPU participation / distraction. The side effect
is that you need to use 10 pins of the device and you need a trace
emulator. Lowest cost trace probably J-Trace from www.segger.com.
Robert
Reply by Peter Dickerson●May 21, 20072007-05-21
"Ulf Samuelsson" <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote in message
news:f2qek0$fcu$1@aioe.org...
>>>>Hello All,
>>>>
>>>>are there really still no small (e.g. 128K Flash, 100 Pins) ARM7
>>>>derivatives with non-intrusive realtime memory access?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The AVR32 based uC3000 series will support this.
>>
>> Any more details Ulf ?
>> Is this on registers only, on chip RAM memory, FLASH memory ?
>> - the debug core has to get a time-slice to access the memory,
>> so does the AVR32 have such 'spare' time slots ?
>>
>> -jg
>>
>
>
> The uC3000 has a bus matrix so if the CPU is not accessing a resource
> it is accessible to the debug unit.
> I do not know the exact details.
But the AVR32 isn't an ARM7 derivative, as requested by the OP, is it?
Peter