> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:57:40 +0200, David Brown
> <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>
>> The Real Andy wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:01:18 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Real Andy wrote:
>>>>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>>>>>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>>>>>>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>>>>>>> run it on XP Embedded.
>>>>>> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
>>>>> Citation please.
>>>> Just ask your Microsoft rep. They have so announced.
>>> I have never seen that announcement, where would i find it? I am a
>>> gold certified partner yet I have never heard such.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
>>
>> So apparently XP *will* be available next year - until 31st January.
>> "System builders" can get it for another year after that (although I
>> don't know the differences between "System builder license" and "Direct
>> OEM license"), and XP Embedded may last longer. But MS's plans for XP
>> in general seem fairly clear to me - although maybe as a certified
>> partner, you have access to more accurate information than me.
>
> Obviously it is MS plan to phase out XP. BUT, if you think its not
> going to exist in a year, you are wrong. MS will continue to support
> XP for quite some time and you will be able to buy a vista licence and
> downgrade it to XP. After 10 years from the last SP release it will no
> longer be supported. In fact, if you buy a vista licence (home
> excluded) the you can even downgrade to NT4, or if you are real
> desperate you can even downgrade to 95.
I was not expressing any opinion as to what I think MS will do - I
merely summarised the webpage from Microsoft. However, I think your
interpretation of the lifetimes differs somewhat from MS webpages, and
the ten year figures apply only to "extended support". Also, I don't
see any clear indication of what "support" means. In particular, does
it mean that basic drivers will be available for newer systems? And for
someone looking to use an OS in an embedded system, it is important to
know that they will be able to buy and use the required installation
files - being allowed to downgrade the license is not enough. Of course
XP will still exist for many years to come - but will a manufacturer be
able to rely on being able to produce new systems using it for many
years to come? As I said earlier, it may be more appropriate to use XP
embedded, as I presume it has a longer lifetime.
Of course, if you instead choose Linux, you will have no issues with
lifetime availability (although support could be another matter).
Alternatively, an OS designed for embedded use (say, QNX) will be
available for much longer - a general purpose commercial OS is only
going to be available (for all practical purposes) as long as there is
demand, and as long as the supplier is interested in selling it.
Reply by The Real Andy●June 15, 20072007-06-15
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:57:40 +0200, David Brown
<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>The Real Andy wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:01:18 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Andy wrote:
>>>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>>>>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>>>>>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>>>>>> run it on XP Embedded.
>>>>> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
>>>> Citation please.
>>> Just ask your Microsoft rep. They have so announced.
>>
>> I have never seen that announcement, where would i find it? I am a
>> gold certified partner yet I have never heard such.
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
>
>So apparently XP *will* be available next year - until 31st January.
>"System builders" can get it for another year after that (although I
>don't know the differences between "System builder license" and "Direct
>OEM license"), and XP Embedded may last longer. But MS's plans for XP
>in general seem fairly clear to me - although maybe as a certified
>partner, you have access to more accurate information than me.
Obviously it is MS plan to phase out XP. BUT, if you think its not
going to exist in a year, you are wrong. MS will continue to support
XP for quite some time and you will be able to buy a vista licence and
downgrade it to XP. After 10 years from the last SP release it will no
longer be supported. In fact, if you buy a vista licence (home
excluded) the you can even downgrade to NT4, or if you are real
desperate you can even downgrade to 95.
Reply by David Brown●June 15, 20072007-06-15
The Real Andy wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:01:18 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The Real Andy wrote:
>>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>>>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>>>>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>>>>> run it on XP Embedded.
>>>> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
>>> Citation please.
>> Just ask your Microsoft rep. They have so announced.
>
> I have never seen that announcement, where would i find it? I am a
> gold certified partner yet I have never heard such.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
So apparently XP *will* be available next year - until 31st January.
"System builders" can get it for another year after that (although I
don't know the differences between "System builder license" and "Direct
OEM license"), and XP Embedded may last longer. But MS's plans for XP
in general seem fairly clear to me - although maybe as a certified
partner, you have access to more accurate information than me.
Reply by The Real Andy●June 14, 20072007-06-14
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:01:18 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>The Real Andy wrote:
>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>>>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>>>> run it on XP Embedded.
>>
>>> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
>>
>> Citation please.
>
>Just ask your Microsoft rep. They have so announced.
I have never seen that announcement, where would i find it? I am a
gold certified partner yet I have never heard such.
> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>>
>>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>>> run it on XP Embedded.
>
>> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
>
> Citation please.
On Jun 13, 8:01 am, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
> the penalties for using Vista, listed in my sig. below. At any
> rate, either system is wrapped in an impossible EULA. Take a
> closer look at Linux.
The problem with this is that in the majority of those cases where
Windows was specified initially, designing around Linux is going to
add development time and subtract functionality. For example, you
might need support for playing Adobe Flash movies. This is difficult
to achieve in Linux and performance is "interesting" at best. It's
much simpler just to boot off the Windows CD, load it on the hard
drive, and run your application in Internet Explorer.
Of course I am not talking about "real" applications but rather
applications that are primarily eye candy and have no security,
accountability or performance requirements; vending kiosks, digital
jukeboxes, electronic voting machines, and so on.
Reply by The Real Andy●June 14, 20072007-06-14
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:01:25 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>ElderUberGeek wrote:
>>
>> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
>> run it on XP Embedded.
>
>Be aware that XP will not be available next year, and of some of
Citation please.
>the penalties for using Vista, listed in my sig. below. At any
>rate, either system is wrapped in an impossible EULA. Take a
>closer look at Linux.
"ElderUberGeek" <aribloch@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de news:
1181573398.541059.26190@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and run
> it on XP Embedded.
>
> Firstly, any design considerations or other factors I should be aware
> of? For example, I know some classes etc. are not supported on XPE so
> one has to take care not to use them (is there a list?).
>
> Anyway, my question is about what SBC to use. I have been looking at
> the VIA EPIA EK (fanless) and it comes in at about $250 for quantities
> above 100. Seems sort of steep (considering all the other stuff you
> need to add also). Any other suggestions, considering what I am trying
> to accomplish?
Have a look at www.compulab.co.il . Depending on the application and
services running under XPE a medium config board like the the CM-iVCF or
even the CM-IGLX may be enough. Cost for a iGLX with 128MB ram and 128MB
flash and Ethernet is under 140$ per 1000.
Cheers,
Robert
Reply by CBFalconer●June 13, 20072007-06-13
ElderUberGeek wrote:
>
> I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
> regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and
> run it on XP Embedded.
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:49:58 -0000, ElderUberGeek <aribloch@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>I am designing a system that will initially run on WinXP using a
>regular PC, but when stable I plan to scale it down to a SBC and run
>it on XP Embedded.
>
>Firstly, any design considerations or other factors I should be aware
>of? For example, I know some classes etc. are not supported on XPE so
>one has to take care not to use them (is there a list?).
>
>Anyway, my question is about what SBC to use. I have been looking at
>the VIA EPIA EK (fanless) and it comes in at about $250 for quantities
>above 100. Seems sort of steep (considering all the other stuff you
>need to add also). Any other suggestions, considering what I am trying
>to accomplish?
>
>Many thanks
>
>PS - this is intended to be a solid state system so I prefer fanless
>boards....
www.kontron.com has a good range and their prices are (were) good.
They will even customize for larger builds (circa 500units).