Reply by Ulf Samuelsson November 5, 20072007-11-05
"Grant Edwards" <grante@visi.com> skrev i meddelandet 
news:13iv761jv69tg94@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2007-10-25, Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote: > >> The JTAG ICE Mk II certainly supports several devices in a >> chain. There are AVR Studio configurations where you specify >> where in the chain it is. > > Hmm. I'm runnnig AVR Studio 4.12 SP1, and I can't find it. In > what version of AVR Studio (and where) is that configuration? > > I think there a newer AVR Studio out, but www.atmel.com is > down... :/ > > -- > Grant Edwards grante Yow! BELA LUGOSI is my > at co-pilot ... > visi.com
It is in the JTAGICE Mk II "options" in the "Connection" tab. I think you may have to have a JTAGICE Mk II connected, for this option to be visible. Inside the tab, you have a "Daisy Chain" where you can say that "Target device is part of a JTAG daisy chain" and Devices before/after and Instruction bus before/after. In my 4,13, you can look a the help files for JTAG ICE Mk II in the "On-Chip Debugging with the JTAGICE mkII" page. Some excepts from the help file: "If the target is a part of a JTAG daisy chain it must be specified how many devices and IR-bits exists before and after the actual target. Maximum total IR-length is 32 bits. AVR uses 4-bit IR length. Check IR-length for each device in the chain to calculate total IR-length before and after the device you wish to communicate with. See example below:" "During the connection sequence, AVR Studio will use the current JTAG Chain settings when connecting to the target device. If the settings does not correspond to the target configuration, AVR Studio will detect this and prompt for the correct settings. If for some reason the settings need to be changed manually, the JTAG Options dialog can be forced to open just before starting debugging by checking the 'Open Platform Options' checkbox in the 'Select debug platform and device', in the Project Wizard. The ProjectWizard is available from the Project menu. The JTAG Daisy Chain configuration in the STK500/AVRISP/JTAGICE(mkI)/JTAGICE mkII programming frontend, can be found under the Advanced tab. See picture below:" -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson This is intended to be my personal opinion which may, or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by Grant Edwards November 5, 20072007-11-05
On 2007-10-25, Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:

> The JTAG ICE Mk II certainly supports several devices in a > chain. There are AVR Studio configurations where you specify > where in the chain it is.
Hmm. I'm runnnig AVR Studio 4.12 SP1, and I can't find it. In what version of AVR Studio (and where) is that configuration? I think there a newer AVR Studio out, but www.atmel.com is down... :/ -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! BELA LUGOSI is my at co-pilot ... visi.com
Reply by Grant Edwards October 25, 20072007-10-25
On 2007-10-25, Didi <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
>> I'll do that. I'm also going to try to wire up a couple eval >> boards and make sure it works. > > What about the 430? I don't remember where this about it > being first was (although I also read it recently), but there > is not much they can get wrong apart from miscounting clock > cycles relative to TMS; so I would expect it not to work as > a second/third etc.
From SLAA149C.PDF: B.2 MSP430 JTAG Restrictions (Non-Compliance With IEEE Std 1149.1) * The MSP430 device must be the first device in the JTAG chain (because of clocking via TDI and JTAG fuse check sequence). * Only the BYPASS instruction is supported. There is no support for SAMPLE, PRELOAD, or EXTEST instructions.
> device no matter what the first device on the chain is. Your > test should give the ultimate answer, of course, please keep > us posted.
Will do. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! for ARTIFICIAL at FLAVORING!! visi.com
Reply by Didi October 25, 20072007-10-25
> I'll do that. I'm also going to try to wire up a couple eval > boards and make sure it works.
What about the 430? I don't remember where this about it being first was (although I also read it recently), but there is not much they can get wrong apart from miscounting clock cycles relative to TMS; so I would expect it not to work as a second/third etc. device no matter what the first device on the chain is. Your test should give the ultimate answer, of course, please keep us posted. Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ On Oct 25, 9:29 pm, Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> wrote:
> On 2007-10-25, Ulf Samuelsson <u...@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote: > > >> So those would be OK if they were the last device in the > >> chain? That along with the MSP430 non-compliance would be a > >> happy coincidence. > > > No, the early AVRs with problems also needed to be the first in a chain. > > I think the mega1281 should be fine. > > It's good to know that some people don't design their parts > under the assumption that nothing else exists in the world. :) > > > Better talk to your local Atmel FAE and ask about a specific > > device, or send an email to avr at atmel dot com. > > I'll do that. I'm also going to try to wire up a couple eval > boards and make sure it works. > > >> Note: The JTAG ICE does not support several devices placed > >> into a JTAG Chain. For example, the target AVR must be > >> the only device connected to the JTAG ICE. > > > The JTAG ICE Mk II certainly supports several devices in a chain. > > Yup, I just found where the datasheet for the Mk II explicitly > says that. > > > There are AVR Studio configurations where you specify where in > > the chain it is. > > I wasn't planning on using AVR Studio, but I can if I have to... > > -- > Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just went below the > at poverty line! > visi.com
Reply by Anton Erasmus October 25, 20072007-10-25
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:50:08 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com>
wrote:

>On 2007-10-24, Didi <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote: > >>> Cripes. JTAG has been around for how many decades and people >>> still can't seem to make tools/parts that implement it >>> correctly? >> >> I expect there is more of that to come - not just in JTAG. >> Less and less people even try to look what is below/aside the >> popdown menus on offer. >> >> What you quote relates just to some poorly written tool, >> though. I cannot think of a part which does not correctly do >> JTAG bypass (being simply a D-flipflop in the chain); so your >> plan with the 430 first sounds good (the 430s problems likely >> appear when it is doing non-bypass things, but that's just a >> guess). > >I'll have to read through the app note again, but I'm going to >try to wire up a couple eval boards in a JTAG chain. > >> Recently I did choose to connect the 430 JTAG separately on a >> design with more JTAG-ged parts, though. But I had more >> excuses to do so, so it was easier to take (free pins on a >> connector I had anyway, separate chain powerdown capability >> etc.). > >We're going to have no extra space on the board in question, so >being able to use a single JTAG header would be a good thing. I >suppose I could come up with a way to share most of the >connector pins whithout actually chaining the TAP units.
Maybe you can use the TI 'LVT8986 device. One can connect 3 secondary JTAG busses to the master JTAG bus. Each of the secondary JTAG busses can be isolated. Regards Anton Erasmus
Reply by Grant Edwards October 25, 20072007-10-25
On 2007-10-25, Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:

>> So those would be OK if they were the last device in the >> chain? That along with the MSP430 non-compliance would be a >> happy coincidence. > > No, the early AVRs with problems also needed to be the first in a chain. > I think the mega1281 should be fine.
It's good to know that some people don't design their parts under the assumption that nothing else exists in the world. :)
> Better talk to your local Atmel FAE and ask about a specific > device, or send an email to avr at atmel dot com.
I'll do that. I'm also going to try to wire up a couple eval boards and make sure it works.
>> Note: The JTAG ICE does not support several devices placed >> into a JTAG Chain. For example, the target AVR must be >> the only device connected to the JTAG ICE. >> > > The JTAG ICE Mk II certainly supports several devices in a chain.
Yup, I just found where the datasheet for the Mk II explicitly says that.
> There are AVR Studio configurations where you specify where in > the chain it is.
I wasn't planning on using AVR Studio, but I can if I have to... -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just went below the at poverty line! visi.com
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson October 25, 20072007-10-25
> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
I followed your recommendation, while writing this reply but I think it is going to confuse readers of this email. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson This is intended to be my personal opinion which may, or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson October 25, 20072007-10-25
>>> Does anybody know if either the MSP430 or Atmel ATmega AVR >>> parts (or associated JTAG interface widgets/SW) have problems >>> when there are other devices in the JTAG chain? >> >>> In the past, I've run into buggy JTAG stuff that couldn't >>> tolerate having multiple devices in the JTAG chain. I'm >>> working on a design with both an AVR and an MSP430, and I'd >>> like to have a single JTAG header/chain. Before trying it out, >>> I thought I'd check to see if anybody already knew it won't >>> work. > > I found an MSP430 app note that states the MSP430 violates the > IEEE JTAG standard and as a result has to be the first device > in the chain. > >> Read the AVR Datasheet. > > I did (for the 1281V). It didn't say one way or the other. I > don't interpret lack of a statement of a feature's absence to > be an assurance that a feature is present. > >> Older Chip revision had problems and mask out other devices. > > So those would be OK if they were the last device in the chain? > That along with the MSP430 non-compliance would be a happy > coincidence. >
No, the early AVRs with problems also needed to be the first in a chain. I think the mega1281 should be fine. Better talk to your local Atmel FAE and ask about a specific device, or send an email to avr at atmel dot com.
> Note: The JTAG ICE does not support several devices placed > into a JTAG Chain. For example, the target AVR must be > the only device connected to the JTAG ICE. >
The JTAG ICE Mk II certainly supports several devices in a chain. There are AVR Studio configurations where you specify where in the chain it is. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson This is intended to be my personal opinion which may, or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by CBFalconer October 24, 20072007-10-24
Didi wrote:
> >> Note: The JTAG ICE does not support several devices placed >> into a JTAG Chain. For example, the target AVR must be >> the only device connected to the JTAG ICE. >> >> Cripes. JTAG has been around for how many decades and people >> still can't seem to make tools/parts that implement it >> correctly? > > I expect there is more of that to come - not just in JTAG. > Less and less people even try to look what is below/aside > the popdown menus on offer. > > What you quote relates just to some poorly written tool, though. > I cannot think of a part which does not correctly do JTAG > bypass (being simply a D-flipflop in the chain); so your > plan with the 430 first sounds good (the 430s problems > likely appear when it is doing non-bypass things, but that's > just a guess). > Recently I did choose to connect the 430 JTAG separately on > a design with more JTAG-ged parts, though. But I had more > excuses to do so, so it was easier to take (free pins on a > connector I had anyway, separate chain powerdown capability > etc.).
While your posts are generally quite readable, they are spoiled by the fact that the complete original message is appended as a quote. Please simply delete that appendage. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Reply by Grant Edwards October 24, 20072007-10-24
On 2007-10-24, Didi <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

>> Cripes. JTAG has been around for how many decades and people >> still can't seem to make tools/parts that implement it >> correctly? > > I expect there is more of that to come - not just in JTAG. > Less and less people even try to look what is below/aside the > popdown menus on offer. > > What you quote relates just to some poorly written tool, > though. I cannot think of a part which does not correctly do > JTAG bypass (being simply a D-flipflop in the chain); so your > plan with the 430 first sounds good (the 430s problems likely > appear when it is doing non-bypass things, but that's just a > guess).
I'll have to read through the app note again, but I'm going to try to wire up a couple eval boards in a JTAG chain.
> Recently I did choose to connect the 430 JTAG separately on a > design with more JTAG-ged parts, though. But I had more > excuses to do so, so it was easier to take (free pins on a > connector I had anyway, separate chain powerdown capability > etc.).
We're going to have no extra space on the board in question, so being able to use a single JTAG header would be a good thing. I suppose I could come up with a way to share most of the connector pins whithout actually chaining the TAP units. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just forgot my whole at philosophy of life!!! visi.com