Reply by Robertus ●December 29, 20072007-12-29
On Dec 26, 12:19 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 20 Dez., 01:49, "Ulf Samuelsson" <u...@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > > 1 40+ MIPS
> > > 2 16 + IO pins
> > > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > > info
>
> > > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> > Production parts of the AVR32 AT32uC3B064 should have
> > 60 MHz operation and 60 MHz I/O toggle.
> > Should be around 75 MIPS.
> > 28 I/O pins in the 48 pin package.
> > Smallest devices is 64 kB flash/16 kB SRAM which
> >     will of course affect price.
> > FS USB Device in 48 pin package, FS USB OTG in 64 pin package
>
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> > Ulf Samuelsson
> > This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
> > or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> Hi
>
> thanks again to all for suggestions
>
> I have some experience with luminary, but there are 3 missing things
> - no onchip osc
> - no option with usb
> - no qfn packages
>
> the AVR32 with 60mhz GPIO access is truly nice, but need pricing to be
> good as well
>
> for the moment the STM32 looks like its getting selected
>
> Antti


Nobody listed the LPC2103 yet, definitely fits your bill, is lower
cost than the STM32 and more mature. I admit, the STM32 is more sexy
but you get a lot of performance out of the LPC2103 as well and it has
the fast I/O feature which offers single cycle I/O.
At Digikey the 2103 is approx. 10% lower cost than the smallest STM32.
May be an additional advantage, the LPC2102 could fit your
requirements as well and is another 10% less. Drop-in compatible to
the LPC2103.

Besides the NXP website, you can also find information on the LPC2000
devices on this web site http://www.lpc2000.com/

Robert

Robert
Reply by Antti ●December 26, 20072007-12-26
On 20 Dez., 01:49, "Ulf Samuelsson" <u...@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:

> > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > 1 40+ MIPS
> > 2 16 + IO pins
> > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > info
>
> > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> Production parts of the AVR32 AT32uC3B064 should have
> 60 MHz operation and 60 MHz I/O toggle.
> Should be around 75 MIPS.
> 28 I/O pins in the 48 pin package.
> Smallest devices is 64 kB flash/16 kB SRAM which
> =A0 =A0 will of course affect price.
> FS USB Device in 48 pin package, FS USB OTG in 64 pin package
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Ulf Samuelsson
> This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
> or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB- Zitierten Text ausble=

nden -

>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -


Hi

thanks again to all for suggestions

I have some experience with luminary, but there are 3 missing things
- no onchip osc
- no option with usb
- no qfn packages

the AVR32 with 60mhz GPIO access is truly nice, but need pricing to be
good as well

for the moment the STM32 looks like its getting selected

Antti
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
> I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> 1 40+ MIPS
> 2 16 + IO pins
> 3 single cycle GPIO port
> 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> 5 optionally FS USB device
> 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> SAM7 have slow GPIO
> the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> info
>
> any chip that fits the profile?
>
> Antti would be real glad for any hints
>


Production parts of the AVR32 AT32uC3B064 should have
60 MHz operation and 60 MHz I/O toggle.
Should be around 75 MIPS.
28 I/O pins in the 48 pin package.
Smallest devices is 64 kB flash/16 kB SRAM which
    will of course affect price.
FS USB Device in 48 pin package, FS USB OTG in 64 pin package


-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by Eric ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On Dec 19, 12:16 pm, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:


> 18Mhz GPIO is running from FLASH at 72Mhz, 2 wait states, maybe run
> your code from zero wait state ram


You shouldn't see the wait states because of the caching (I don't
remember what they call it, but it is a cache in effect). You
definitely do NOT want to run out of RAM - the STM32 is not optimized
for this and the speed is much slower. But it runs very nice from
flash.

Eric
Reply by Mark ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
Antti wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
> 
> 1 40+ MIPS
> 2 16 + IO pins
> 3 single cycle GPIO port
> 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> 5 optionally FS USB device
> 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
> 
> low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
> 
> SAM7 have slow GPIO
> the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> info
> 
> any chip that fits the profile?
> 
> Antti would be real glad for any hints
> 


The Luminary LM3S600-IQN50 is a good candidate: 32K single cycle Flash, 
  50MHz core, max 28 GPIOs. Only the internal high-speed oscillator is 
missing. Suggested resale is USD 2.01 @ 1K pieces.

The advantage of Luminary is that their core is really running at 50MHz, 
  while executing from Flash. No wait states necessary. Also, the 
Luminary parts are all available in production quantities, and have even 
more SRAM than their ST counterparts. Also no multiplexing of 
peripherals: all peripherals have their own pins (although muxed with 
GPIOs).

Mark
Reply by ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On 19 d=E9c, 13:16, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> 1 40+ MIPS
> 2 16 + IO pins
> 3 single cycle GPIO port
> 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> 5 optionally FS USB device
> 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>



40 "mips" depend of the definition of "Mips"
With full speed USB, the following Freescale devices can fit your
needs at 3-4 USD:

8 bits microcontrolleur : MC9S08JM60
32 bits microcontrolleur : MCF52212

Consider also the cost of the developpement tools (IDE, Debugger),
very low for freescale devices

thierry
Reply by steve ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On Dec 19, 12:21 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 19 Dez., 18:16, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 10:27 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 19 Dez., 15:13, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 19, 7:16 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi
>
> > > > > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > > > > 1 40+ MIPS
> > > > > 2 16 + IO pins
> > > > > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > > > > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > > > > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > > > > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > > > > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > > > > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > > > > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > > > > info
>
> > > > > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > > > > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> > > > STM32 $1.80 without FS USB, a little more with
>
> > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/products/promlit/pdf/brstm320807.pdf-Zitie...ausblenden -
>
> > > > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> > > wau you have nice prices for for STM32 if you did give real prices
> > > (not advertied 1Mio/year pricing or something)
>
> > > digikey price indicator for them is around 3.5 usd, even more then
> > > luminary stuff
>
> > > i was almost thinking STM32 myself but assumed it to be out of price
> > > range
>
> > > the smallest STM32 look pretty neat in QFN36 package
> > > but this package not available on digikey yet :(
>
> > > anyway nice to see that STM32 claims 18mhz SPI master-serial and 18
> > > mhz GPIO toggle rates,
> > > similar info is not always easy to find by first look
>
> > > ah, about the function needed - its custom 8 bit parallel interfaces
> > > clocked at 4MHz
>
> > > so about 40 MIPS is required as minimum (assumed 1 clock GPIO access)
>
> > > thansk for suggestions, but eh maybe there some more that fit the
> > > bill ?
>
> > > Antti- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > it's 10K distributor pricing, not retail (digikey) price, since you
> > didn't mention quantities, I had to guess
>
> > 18Mhz GPIO is running from FLASH at 72Mhz, 2 wait states, maybe run
> > your code from zero wait state ram
>
> > the smallest package was added later, it  now seems active, guess
> > digikey/mouser should see it soon- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> eh, thanks another time for clarification,
>
> yes with 2,8 avnet online pricing i did assume 1.8 for 10k volume
>
> it defenetly fits the bill, actually the usb version maybe even better
> already ordered tqfp48 samples, hoping that the qfn would also be
> available JAN2008 ;)
>
> eh, the STM32 outperforms my needs even
> as it has nice DMA engine so the cpu performance could be even lower
> it looks that the DMA engine can handle most of the protocol needs
>
> Antti- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


yep, my opinion STM32 is current state of art for small high speed/
cheap micro, ...32 bits,tiny, runs down to 2 volts, low active AND
standby power, internal high/low speed clocks, hardware division, lots
of RAM, 12 bit a/d, DMA blah blah blah...next month it will be
something different. Small QFN went active a few weeks ago, also a
smaller package (less then 5x5mm) may be coming next year
Reply by linnix ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On Dec 19, 7:27 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 19 Dez., 15:13, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 7:16 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi
>
> > > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > > 1 40+ MIPS
> > > 2 16 + IO pins
> > > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > > info
>
> > > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> > STM32 $1.80 without FS USB, a little more with
>
> >http://www.st.com/stonline/products/promlit/pdf/brstm320807.pdf-Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> wau you have nice prices for for STM32 if you did give real prices
> (not advertied 1Mio/year pricing or something)


I think USD$1.8 is for 10K of the 36MHz parts, but you need the 72MHz
for USB anyway.
Reply by Antti ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On 19 Dez., 18:16, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Dec 19, 10:27 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 19 Dez., 15:13, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 19, 7:16 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi
>
> > > > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > > > 1 40+ MIPS
> > > > 2 16 + IO pins
> > > > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > > > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > > > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > > > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > > > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > > > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > > > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > > > info
>
> > > > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > > > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> > > STM32 $1.80 without FS USB, a little more with
>
> > >http://www.st.com/stonline/products/promlit/pdf/brstm320807.pdf-Zitie...Text ausblenden -
>
> > > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> > wau you have nice prices for for STM32 if you did give real prices
> > (not advertied 1Mio/year pricing or something)
>
> > digikey price indicator for them is around 3.5 usd, even more then
> > luminary stuff
>
> > i was almost thinking STM32 myself but assumed it to be out of price
> > range
>
> > the smallest STM32 look pretty neat in QFN36 package
> > but this package not available on digikey yet :(
>
> > anyway nice to see that STM32 claims 18mhz SPI master-serial and 18
> > mhz GPIO toggle rates,
> > similar info is not always easy to find by first look
>
> > ah, about the function needed - its custom 8 bit parallel interfaces
> > clocked at 4MHz
>
> > so about 40 MIPS is required as minimum (assumed 1 clock GPIO access)
>
> > thansk for suggestions, but eh maybe there some more that fit the
> > bill ?
>
> > Antti- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> it's 10K distributor pricing, not retail (digikey) price, since you
> didn't mention quantities, I had to guess
>
> 18Mhz GPIO is running from FLASH at 72Mhz, 2 wait states, maybe run
> your code from zero wait state ram
>
> the smallest package was added later, it  now seems active, guess
> digikey/mouser should see it soon- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -


eh, thanks another time for clarification,

yes with 2,8 avnet online pricing i did assume 1.8 for 10k volume

it defenetly fits the bill, actually the usb version maybe even better
already ordered tqfp48 samples, hoping that the qfn would also be
available JAN2008 ;)

eh, the STM32 outperforms my needs even
as it has nice DMA engine so the cpu performance could be even lower
it looks that the DMA engine can handle most of the protocol needs

Antti
Reply by steve ●December 19, 20072007-12-19
On Dec 19, 10:27 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 19 Dez., 15:13, steve <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 7:16 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi
>
> > > I am looking for simple cheap thumb MCU requirements
>
> > > 1 40+ MIPS
> > > 2 16 + IO pins
> > > 3 single cycle GPIO port
> > > 4 16+ KB flash (32k if mcu is 32 bit one)
> > > 5 optionally FS USB device
> > > 6 preffered onchip high speed oscillator
>
> > > low cost < 2.0 usd (little more if usb is present)
>
> > > SAM7 have slow GPIO
> > > the microchips new MIPS based one, dont have pricing and gpio speed
> > > info
>
> > > any chip that fits the profile?
>
> > > Antti would be real glad for any hints
>
> > STM32 $1.80 without FS USB, a little more with
>
> >http://www.st.com/stonline/products/promlit/pdf/brstm320807.pdf-Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
>
> wau you have nice prices for for STM32 if you did give real prices
> (not advertied 1Mio/year pricing or something)
>
> digikey price indicator for them is around 3.5 usd, even more then
> luminary stuff
>
> i was almost thinking STM32 myself but assumed it to be out of price
> range
>
> the smallest STM32 look pretty neat in QFN36 package
> but this package not available on digikey yet :(
>
> anyway nice to see that STM32 claims 18mhz SPI master-serial and 18
> mhz GPIO toggle rates,
> similar info is not always easy to find by first look
>
> ah, about the function needed - its custom 8 bit parallel interfaces
> clocked at 4MHz
>
> so about 40 MIPS is required as minimum (assumed 1 clock GPIO access)
>
> thansk for suggestions, but eh maybe there some more that fit the
> bill ?
>
> Antti- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


it's 10K distributor pricing, not retail (digikey) price, since you
didn't mention quantities, I had to guess

18Mhz GPIO is running from FLASH at 72Mhz, 2 wait states, maybe run
your code from zero wait state ram

the smallest package was added later, it  now seems active, guess
digikey/mouser should see it soon