> ...=A0In
> sci.electronics.design, there are people who will give expert advice on
> electronics questions, but in political threads (of which there are many
> in s.e.d.) they'll label Attila the Hun as a "leftist weenie". =A0It's
> fun, as long as you're wearing your flameproof underwear.

I know, I do read SED (not as regularly as CAE, but a few times a
week).
A bit more OT than I would read comes there, but definitely a fun
group.
And I am still not convinced flamers there would have any useful
answers for me (but obviously I'll give you the benefit of the
doubt) :-).

> Global warming is an average thing - it often makes more sense to call
> it "global climate change". =A0Britain (and especially here in Norway)
> will not get warmer once the gulf stream fails.

Oh come on, they've been saying this for years. Obviously I have no
case to prove with numbers against that, but just look at the
weather reports from the entire hemisphere - it is a very cold
winter by any standards all over the place. Then I smell propaganda
talk (having grown up under a communistic regime) before those
who spread it even know they are doing propaganda talk. This
thing smells like propaganda aiming to slow down the Asian
petrol consumption (as if they would care and would stop
it from soaring... :-).

> Do you live in Newcastle? =A0It never really gets cold there, judging by
> the dress sense of the girls on Friday nights...

No-no, never been there. The only places I have lived in are Bulgaria
(presently there as well) and Germany (Cologne). Just used to like
a lot Shearer when he used to play - I am far from what you would
call a football fan, but I like watching a game or two on TV as
long as this is English premier league or world cup or sort of :-).
The habbits on Friday nights you refer to sound intriguing, though...

Dimiter

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On Jan 13, 5:41=A0pm, David Brown
<david.br...@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> Didi wrote:
> >>> No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
> >>> anyway.
> >> That's not actually true - there are people around who can be very
> >> smart, very helpful, and very petty (though not so much in this group).=

>
> > Well may be they do exist but I have yet to get to know one of
> > them :-).
>
> You come across them in more specific groups - in Linux groups, you'll
> find networking gurus who will flame anyone who uses a graphical browser
> (and woe betide anyone who mentions Windows!), and in some Microsoft
> groups you'll find anyone mentioning open source labelled an evil
> communist virus-spreader by otherwise knowledgeable experts. =A0In
> sci.electronics.design, there are people who will give expert advice on
> electronics questions, but in political threads (of which there are many
> in s.e.d.) they'll label Attila the Hun as a "leftist weenie". =A0It's
> fun, as long as you're wearing your flameproof underwear.
>
> >> Are we not allowed to relax a little with non-essential banter?
>
> > Of course we are (do I feel silly for being so serious on that...).
>
> > Frankly, really interesting technical topics come up once every
> > few months, the rest of the time we do pub-like talk anyway.
> > Nothing wrong with that with me - nor with top/bottom posting
> > flames, although I believe some people do put more in them than
> > they should. But it is freezing outside - has been for months now -
> > and
> > I definitely prefer sitting here than going out for a walk or
> > wherever during my idle moments... Well, apart from wanting to
> > kill some of the global warming lie proponents. OK, may be not
> > kill, I'll settle for tying them in the cold outside for a
> > while... :-).
>
> Global warming is an average thing - it often makes more sense to call
> it "global climate change". =A0Britain (and especially here in Norway)
> will not get warmer once the gulf stream fails.
>
> > Or I'd give them to those Scottish football fans
> > who had their matches postponed today because of the frozen
> > pitches (I really wonder how frequent can that be).
> > =A0The English were luckier, not that the games I
> > had on telly here today were any good (particularly the late
> > one, me being a Newcastle supporter since the early Shearer
> > times... :-).
>
> Do you live in Newcastle? =A0It never really gets cold there, judging by
> the dress sense of the girls on Friday nights...
>
> > Dimiter

Didi wrote:
>>> No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
>>> anyway.
>> That's not actually true - there are people around who can be very
>> smart, very helpful, and very petty (though not so much in this group).
> 
> Well may be they do exist but I have yet to get to know one of
> them :-).
> 

You come across them in more specific groups - in Linux groups, you'll 
find networking gurus who will flame anyone who uses a graphical browser 
(and woe betide anyone who mentions Windows!), and in some Microsoft 
groups you'll find anyone mentioning open source labelled an evil 
communist virus-spreader by otherwise knowledgeable experts.  In 
sci.electronics.design, there are people who will give expert advice on 
electronics questions, but in political threads (of which there are many 
in s.e.d.) they'll label Attila the Hun as a "leftist weenie".  It's 
fun, as long as you're wearing your flameproof underwear.

>> Are we not allowed to relax a little with non-essential banter?
> 
> Of course we are (do I feel silly for being so serious on that...).
> 
> Frankly, really interesting technical topics come up once every
> few months, the rest of the time we do pub-like talk anyway.
> Nothing wrong with that with me - nor with top/bottom posting
> flames, although I believe some people do put more in them than
> they should. But it is freezing outside - has been for months now -
> and
> I definitely prefer sitting here than going out for a walk or
> wherever during my idle moments... Well, apart from wanting to
> kill some of the global warming lie proponents. OK, may be not
> kill, I'll settle for tying them in the cold outside for a
> while... :-).

Global warming is an average thing - it often makes more sense to call 
it "global climate change".  Britain (and especially here in Norway) 
will not get warmer once the gulf stream fails.

> Or I'd give them to those Scottish football fans
> who had their matches postponed today because of the frozen
> pitches (I really wonder how frequent can that be).
>  The English were luckier, not that the games I
> had on telly here today were any good (particularly the late
> one, me being a Newcastle supporter since the early Shearer
> times... :-).
> 

Do you live in Newcastle?  It never really gets cold there, judging by 
the dress sense of the girls on Friday nights...

> Dimiter
>

> > No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
> > anyway.
>
> That's not actually true - there are people around who can be very
> smart, very helpful, and very petty (though not so much in this group).

Well may be they do exist but I have yet to get to know one of
them :-).

> Are we not allowed to relax a little with non-essential banter?

Of course we are (do I feel silly for being so serious on that...).

Frankly, really interesting technical topics come up once every
few months, the rest of the time we do pub-like talk anyway.
Nothing wrong with that with me - nor with top/bottom posting
flames, although I believe some people do put more in them than
they should. But it is freezing outside - has been for months now -
and
I definitely prefer sitting here than going out for a walk or
wherever during my idle moments... Well, apart from wanting to
kill some of the global warming lie proponents. OK, may be not
kill, I'll settle for tying them in the cold outside for a
while... :-).
Or I'd give them to those Scottish football fans
who had their matches postponed today because of the frozen
pitches (I really wonder how frequent can that be).
 The English were luckier, not that the games I
had on telly here today were any good (particularly the late
one, me being a Newcastle supporter since the early Shearer
times... :-).

Dimiter

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Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/

On Jan 13, 1:16=A0am, David Brown
<david.br...@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> Didi wrote:
> >> ... The most valuable answers
> >> you could got for your questions are not available, because
> >> the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
> >> you.
>
> > While this may be true under circumstances, it does not even
> > begin to tell the whole story.
> > =A0If anyone feels he should killfile me because of the
> > format of my posts, I would only encourage him to do that.
> > No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
> > anyway.
>
> That's not actually true - there are people around who can be very
> smart, very helpful, and very petty (though not so much in this group).
> =A0 And while few would killfile someone for the occasional top-post, some=

> might do so for actively advocating top-posting. =A0Of course, there are
> some who might killfile me for simply adding to this off-topic thread...
>
> > =A0People who do have useful replies would be way too busy to
> > initiate top/bottom post arguments.
> > =A0BTW, the same top/bottom post thread initiators gladly
> > tolerate broken English - if properly bottom posted, that is.
>
> Most of us here are very tolerant of broken English - if it is a matter
> of a non-native English speaker doing his/her best. =A0Few are tolerant of=

> deliberate SMS-speak or other such childish nonsense, but I have seen
> very few spelling flames in this group. =A0We even tolerate American spell=
ing!
>
> > My suggestion to all of the bttom vs. top post religion
> > preachers is to get a real job which keeps them busy
> > doing something useful.
>
> Are we not allowed to relax a little with non-essential banter? =A0Anyway,=

> while people may ask questions here as part of their real job, not many
> could justify answering questions as proper work - we do it for
> enjoyment, to help people, to contribute to the quality of embedded
> development, and to learn from discussions.
>
> > Dimiter
>
> >> Groetjes Albert

Didi wrote:
>> ... The most valuable answers
>> you could got for your questions are not available, because
>> the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
>> you.
> 
> While this may be true under circumstances, it does not even
> begin to tell the whole story.
>  If anyone feels he should killfile me because of the
> format of my posts, I would only encourage him to do that.
> No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
> anyway.

That's not actually true - there are people around who can be very 
smart, very helpful, and very petty (though not so much in this group). 
  And while few would killfile someone for the occasional top-post, some 
might do so for actively advocating top-posting.  Of course, there are 
some who might killfile me for simply adding to this off-topic thread...

>  People who do have useful replies would be way too busy to
> initiate top/bottom post arguments.
>  BTW, the same top/bottom post thread initiators gladly
> tolerate broken English - if properly bottom posted, that is.
> 

Most of us here are very tolerant of broken English - if it is a matter 
of a non-native English speaker doing his/her best.  Few are tolerant of 
deliberate SMS-speak or other such childish nonsense, but I have seen 
very few spelling flames in this group.  We even tolerate American spelling!

> My suggestion to all of the bttom vs. top post religion
> preachers is to get a real job which keeps them busy
> doing something useful.
> 

Are we not allowed to relax a little with non-essential banter?  Anyway, 
while people may ask questions here as part of their real job, not many 
could justify answering questions as proper work - we do it for 
enjoyment, to help people, to contribute to the quality of embedded 
development, and to learn from discussions.

> Dimiter
> 
>> Groetjes Albert
>>

On 12 Jan 2008 17:59:53 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and
Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> instead replied:

>Your punishment for not obeying the rules, has already been
>applied, unbeknownst to you. The most valuable answers
>you could got for your questions are not available, because
>the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
>you.

Actually, I've never been here for answers. I don't need them. I'm
here to give them when needed.
--
Ray

> ... The most valuable answers
> you could got for your questions are not available, because
> the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
> you.

While this may be true under circumstances, it does not even
begin to tell the whole story.
 If anyone feels he should killfile me because of the
format of my posts, I would only encourage him to do that.
No chance such a person would have any useful replies for me
anyway.
 People who do have useful replies would be way too busy to
initiate top/bottom post arguments.
 BTW, the same top/bottom post thread initiators gladly
tolerate broken English - if properly bottom posted, that is.

My suggestion to all of the bttom vs. top post religion
preachers is to get a real job which keeps them busy
doing something useful.

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/

On Jan 12, 7:59=A0pm, Albert van der Horst <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
wrote:
> In article <6akao3pp369b0633k844ghq9ckogd1n...@4ax.com>,
> Ray Haddad =A0<rhad...@iexpress.net.au> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:22:10 +0200, I said, "Pick a card, any card"
> >and Niklas Holsti <niklas.hol...@tidorum.invalid> instead replied:
>
> >>Take a look at some of the important RFCs and how detailed they
> >>are, and how important that technical detail is, and you will
> >>understand that the literal meaning of the traditional label
> >>"Request For Comment" no longer applies to them, after they have
> >>become adopted. David is right as regards the RFC's for IP etc.
>
> >The remain REQUEST FOR COMMENT documents, not rules.
>
> This reflects that usenet is an open community, not a police
> state. The punishment for not obeying the rules is that you
> don't belong to the community. If your ISP would ignore the
> rules, you couldn't communicate with us.
>
> Your punishment for not obeying the rules, has already been
> applied, unbeknownst to you. The most valuable answers
> you could got for your questions are not available, because
> the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
> you.
>
> >--
> >Ray
>
> Groetjes Albert
>
> --
> --
> Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
> Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters.
> albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=3Dnhttp://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

In article <6akao3pp369b0633k844ghq9ckogd1nh7l@4ax.com>,
Ray Haddad  <rhaddad@iexpress.net.au> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:22:10 +0200, I said, "Pick a card, any card"
>and Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> instead replied:
>
>>Take a look at some of the important RFCs and how detailed they
>>are, and how important that technical detail is, and you will
>>understand that the literal meaning of the traditional label
>>"Request For Comment" no longer applies to them, after they have
>>become adopted. David is right as regards the RFC's for IP etc.
>
>The remain REQUEST FOR COMMENT documents, not rules.

This reflects that usenet is an open community, not a police
state. The punishment for not obeying the rules is that you
don't belong to the community. If your ISP would ignore the
rules, you couldn't communicate with us.

Your punishment for not obeying the rules, has already been
applied, unbeknownst to you. The most valuable answers
you could got for your questions are not available, because
the most knowledgeable persons of this group have killfiled
you.

>--
>Ray

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Ray Haddad <rhaddad@iexpress.net.au> writes:
> Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> replied:
> 
> >Take a look at some of the important RFCs and how detailed they 
> >are, and how important that technical detail is, and you will 
> >understand that the literal meaning of the traditional label 
> >"Request For Comment" no longer applies to them, after they have 
> >become adopted. David is right as regards the RFC's for IP etc.
> 
> The remain REQUEST FOR COMMENT documents, not rules.

Did you read the postings to this newsgroup and post
followups to it without complying with RFC977?

I've never liked the RFC nomenclature for approved
items.  It would seem that a different nomenclature
should be used for those RFCs that have been approved
for use versus those that have been run up the flagpole
to see who salutes.

Part of the problem with "standards" for the Internet is
that there is no "owner" to set the rules.  Everyone who
connects to and uses the Internet is an "owner" and can
set his own rules.  However, setting one's own rules
that are different from everyone else's is chaos.

As for standards of any sort, all are volunary unless
specified by law or contract.