On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:24:11 +0100, Paul wrote:

>><snip>
>> If floating point performance is what you need, then 
>> CrossWorks is the package 
>> for you, they're by far the fastest/ smallest in size 
>> compared to any other vendor's offering. (last time I
checked/tested).
>
>Yeah, but Jonathan is on a mission... ;-)

hehe.  Several, actually.

>I don't know where he finds
>the time or energy to do what he does.

Oh, shucks.  It's just fun.

><snip>

Jon

Hi Paul,

> With large programs, the difference between a
couple of seconds for a
> download and 20 seconds for a download is quite astonishing.  It's
> amazing how quickly you become accustomed to the speed and wouldn't
want
> to return to something slower.

And it indeed is rather weird returning to a FET on JTAG !
When reflashing it's like come on .... come on ... :-)

It's like having to do your PC work back on a 100 MHz Pentium instead of
your
new 2.4 GHz machine, heh.

-- Kris

Hi Kris,

> > > Can anyone give me some feedback on the
CrossWorks comiplier from 
> > > Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point 
> > > operations take to much code space.
> > >
> > > I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping 
> anyone using 
> > > it could adivse if it is work the cost.
> 
> If floating point performance is what you need, then 
> CrossWorks is the package 
> for you, they're by far the fastest/ smallest in size 
> compared to any other vendor's offering. (last time I checked/tested).

Yeah, but Jonathan is on a mission... ;-)  I don't know where he finds
the time or energy to do what he does.

> I personally have always found CrossWorks to
overall be quite 
> intuitive. (But then again, I'm a terrible non-reader of 
> documentation to start with to test productivity of GUI)

And I'm reworking the documentation.  There's more of it, and it
actually reflects reality now.

> I indeed have clients myself who have favoured
Quadravox over 
> CrossWorks in the past, but once they got to the stage of 
> needing more powerful Interrupt processing Debug features for 
> example, they took the jump to CrossWorks. (or more powerful 
> Build Configuration/ Target settings etc)
> 
> One recently claimed that the time - thus cost - saving by using the 
> CrossConnect USB JTAG alone easily justified purchase of CW 
> over others.

With large programs, the difference between a couple of seconds for a
download and 20 seconds for a download is quite astonishing.  It's
amazing how quickly you become accustomed to the speed and wouldn't want
to return to something slower.

Regards,

-- Paul.

Hmm, put in my 2 cents' worth.

> > Can anyone give me some feedback on the
CrossWorks comiplier from
> > Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point
> > operations take to much code space.
> >
> > I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping anyone using
> > it could adivse if it is work the cost.

If floating point performance is what you need, then CrossWorks is the package 
for you, they're by far the fastest/ smallest in size compared to any other
vendor's offering. (last time I checked/tested).

I personally have always found CrossWorks to overall be quite intuitive.
(But then again, I'm a terrible non-reader of documentation to start with
to test productivity of GUI)

The rest is preference, taste and expectation I think.

CrossWorks will be productive for you in no time at all, but if you want
to unleash its full power, it'll take a bit of familiarising (then again
isn't that
so with every IDE ?).
I think this is normal because there is much more features than typically
found in other IDEs.
I would have thought that _generally_ these features are transparent until
you actually need them. 
IOW you don't have to learn or be burdened with what you don't need
(yet),
it's mostly auto-setup for you.


> Leon's idea is a good one, and you could then
join the cw430 Yahoo group if
> you find you need in-depth help with it.  It's powerful but by the
same
> token relatively difficult to come up to speed on in my view.
> 
> --Bruce

This might be a good idea, as with any eval.
Try it, see what it does for you ....

I indeed have clients myself who have favoured Quadravox over CrossWorks
in the past, but once they got to the stage of needing more powerful Interrupt
processing Debug features for example, they took the jump to CrossWorks.
(or more powerful Build Configuration/ Target settings etc)

One recently claimed that the time - thus cost - saving by using the 
CrossConnect USB JTAG alone easily justified purchase of CW over others.

Anway, hope that helps somewhat in making a difficult choice.


B rgds
Kris

Hi Jonathan,

> >And I expect that we have the smallest and
fastest floating-point 
> >routines for the MSP430...
> 
> ... that are included with a commercial C compiler.

Correct.  As far as I know.  The cycles I gave last time were slightly
on the "long" side as I found a problem with the cycle counter on our
simulator which overestimated the time required for each primitive.

> Any recent changes?  Or are they the same as a few
months ago?

I have indeed integrated those well-known changes into the compiler,
thanks.  :-)  They haven't hit the streets as we have a few other things
up our sleeves, including improvements in the optimizer, and the ability
to disable it on a per-instruction basis.

I haven't coded the 64-bit routines in assembly code yet.  I'm not
sure
it's worth it.

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, and (soon) Atmel AVR processors 

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:49:39 +0100, Paul wrote:

>And I expect that we have the smallest and fastest
>floating-point routines for the MSP430...

... that are included with a commercial C compiler.

Any recent changes?  Or are they the same as a few months ago?

Jon

> --- In msp430@msp4..., "quaratie" <quaratie@y...>
wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Can anyone give me some feedback on the CrossWorks comiplier from 
> > Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point 
> > operations take to much code space.
> > 
> > I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping anyone using
> > it could adivse if it is work the cost.
> > 
> > Regards,
> 
> I would like to recommend the CrossWorks compiler from Rowley, the 
> support I have had from these guys has been great.

Thanks.  And I expect that we have the smallest and fastest
floating-point routines for the MSP430...

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, and (soon) Atmel AVR processors 

--- In msp430@msp4..., "quaratie" <quaratie@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Can anyone give me some feedback on the CrossWorks comiplier from
> Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point 
> operations take to much code space.
> 
> I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping anyone using 
> it could adivse if it is work the cost.
> 
> Regards,

I would like to recommend the CrossWorks compiler from Rowley, the 
support I have had from these guys has been great.


Jeff

I agree with Bruce.
We have been investigating IAR, Crossworks, Microcosm, gcc and Quadravox.
Quadravox won the race. For the Jtag we use the Softbaugh USBP.
 
Here we bought 2 seats and our customer in Ireland bought 3 seats and none
of use has found any problem (until now :) ).
 
Yvon

Bruce Cannon <bc@bc@....> wrote:
Hi      :

Leon's idea is a good one, and you could then join the cw430 Yahoo group if
you find you need in-depth help with it.  It's powerful but by the same
token relatively difficult to come up to speed on in my view.

--Bruce



> -----Original Message-----
> From: quaratie [mailto:quaratie@quar...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:30 PM
> To: msp430@msp4...
> Subject: [msp430] crossworks compilier
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone give me some feedback on the CrossWorks comiplier from
> Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point
> operations take to much code space.
>
> I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping anyone using
> it could adivse if it is work the cost.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> . 


		
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Hi      :

Leon's idea is a good one, and you could then join the cw430 Yahoo group if
you find you need in-depth help with it.  It's powerful but by the same
token relatively difficult to come up to speed on in my view.

--Bruce



> -----Original Message-----
> From: quaratie [mailto:quaratie@quar...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:30 PM
> To: msp430@msp4...
> Subject: [msp430] crossworks compilier
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone give me some feedback on the CrossWorks comiplier from
> Rowley Associates, I was using GCC but the gcc floating point
> operations take to much code space.
>
> I was thinking of purchasing CrossWorks and was hoping anyone using
> it could adivse if it is work the cost.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>