"Alex" <enginven@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:05bd2c8f-8660-49f3-8140-16baa048898f@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 18, 1:29 pm, Ben Bradley <ben_nospam_brad...@frontiernet.net>
> wrote:
>> In the newsgroups comp.arch.fpga, comp.lang.verilog,
>> comp.arch.embedded, sci.electronics.design and comp.lang.vhdl, I saw a
>> thread in which the following words were approximately attributed to
>> the following posters:
>>
>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 17:19:31 -0700, "BobW"
>>
>>
>>
>> <nimby_NEEDS...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in 
>> >message
>> >news:o1e424d2h2uldtu4qm4589v667lu96hip8@4ax.com...
>> >> On Wed, 7 May 2008 12:19:40 -0700 (PDT), John_H
>> >> <newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> >>>> To Lattice:
>>
>> >>>> We dumped Lattice over buggy compilers and dinky performance. Now 
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> you're spamming our group, I'll make the ban permanent.
>>
>> >>>> To the group:
>> >>>> Whenever anybody spams us, please
>>
>> >>>> 1. Blackball them as a vendor
>>
>> >>>> 2. Say bad things about their companies and products, preferably 
>> >>>> with
>> >>>> lots of google-searchable keywords.
>>
>> >>>> John
>>
>> >>>Was this really necessary?
>>
>>    Yes.
>>
>> >>>If there were technical webcasts from any of the big vendors, I'd like
>> >>>to know about them though preferably more than 8 minutes beforehand.
>>
>>    Email them, and sign up for subscriptions to all their blurbs. A
>> confirmed opt-in email list is a good way to disseminate such info. If
>> they don't have such a list or don't announce events timely, tell them
>> you'll only consider sources from companies who do.
>>
>> >>>If the posts of this nature got to be more than a couple a month from
>> >>>any one source I'd agree with the spam catagorization but it isn't
>> >>>that frequent.
>>
>>    "Well, there's spam egg Lattice and spam, that's not got much spam
>> in it."
>>
>>    In other words, "they're not breaking the rules THAT often." With
>> the thousands of suppliers that provide products and services relevant
>> to even one of the cross-posted newsgroups, there could be hundreds of
>> posts per day of "legitimate" commercial posts.
>>
>> >>>I'm disappointed that you had problems with them in the past and won't
>> >>>trust them for future designs because of your history; competition is
>> >>>almost always good.  But is it reason to be publicly vocal?
>>
>>    It's always good to be vocal about inappropriate posts. As for the
>> poster airing his previous problems with Lattice, perhaps they would
>> be better put in a blog or in a post where someone asks about using
>> Lattice, but that's a minor thing compared to the original post.
>>
>> >>>Kill-lists are easy to manage if bart's messages offend you.
>>
>>    I have better things to do than manage kill lists. I've got "better
>> things to do" than write this, but but c.a.e and especially s.e.d have
>> been useful to me a while back, and between all the spam and splorge
>> in recent years, it's a pleasant surprise to see these groups are
>> still viable. So I'm doing my little part to help keep them alive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>- John_H
>>
>> >> If we don't discourage commercial posts, newsgroups will be flooded
>> >> with them. I can't kill-file the tens of thousands of companies who
>> >> would spam newsgroups if they thought it would pay off. So let's make
>> >> sure it *doesn't* pay off.
>>
>> >> If they want to advertise, let them pay for it somewhere else.
>>
>> >> John
>>
>> >For what it's worth, I agree with John.
>>
>> >It's a real shame that we, now, have to go out of our way to filter
>> >commercial and sexual posts. There are proper places for both of those.
>> >Usenet is not one of them, in my opinion.
>>
>>    Just to make a slight correction, THESE NEWSGROUPS (see crosspost
>> list at the top of my post) are not the proper place for commercial
>> posts. There are "marketplace" and "sex" newsgroups - if he's going to
>> spam, perhaps Bart Borosky of Lattice would do well to post to those
>> instead. There's no telling where a lonely engineer might go in his
>> spare time, and after all, "posting to Usenet is free" (as in both
>> beer AND speech).
>>
>>    Post, drink and speak responsibly.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Bob
>
> Guys,
>
> I read this thread after it was created and just wanted to ask a
> couple of questions (while completely agreeing with the generally
> accepted conclusion):
> Was all this 'hot air' necessary?
> Was all this bad-mouthing coming from some of the authors proper for
> the group?
>
> With respect,

Which group?  It was crossposted to 5 different newsgroups, and is
unwelcome in at least one of them.

On May 18, 1:29 pm, Ben Bradley <ben_nospam_brad...@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
> In the newsgroups comp.arch.fpga, comp.lang.verilog,
> comp.arch.embedded, sci.electronics.design and comp.lang.vhdl, I saw a
> thread in which the following words were approximately attributed to
> the following posters:
>
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 17:19:31 -0700, "BobW"
>
>
>
> <nimby_NEEDS...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> >"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
> >news:o1e424d2h2uldtu4qm4589v667lu96hip8@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 7 May 2008 12:19:40 -0700 (PDT), John_H
> >> <newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>
> >>>John Larkin wrote:
>
> >>>> To Lattice:
>
> >>>> We dumped Lattice over buggy compilers and dinky performance. Now that
> >>>> you're spamming our group, I'll make the ban permanent.
>
> >>>> To the group:
> >>>> Whenever anybody spams us, please
>
> >>>> 1. Blackball them as a vendor
>
> >>>> 2. Say bad things about their companies and products, preferably with
> >>>> lots of google-searchable keywords.
>
> >>>> John
>
> >>>Was this really necessary?
>
>    Yes.
>
> >>>If there were technical webcasts from any of the big vendors, I'd like
> >>>to know about them though preferably more than 8 minutes beforehand.
>
>    Email them, and sign up for subscriptions to all their blurbs. A
> confirmed opt-in email list is a good way to disseminate such info. If
> they don't have such a list or don't announce events timely, tell them
> you'll only consider sources from companies who do.
>
> >>>If the posts of this nature got to be more than a couple a month from
> >>>any one source I'd agree with the spam catagorization but it isn't
> >>>that frequent.
>
>    "Well, there's spam egg Lattice and spam, that's not got much spam
> in it."
>
>    In other words, "they're not breaking the rules THAT often." With
> the thousands of suppliers that provide products and services relevant
> to even one of the cross-posted newsgroups, there could be hundreds of
> posts per day of "legitimate" commercial posts.
>
> >>>I'm disappointed that you had problems with them in the past and won't
> >>>trust them for future designs because of your history; competition is
> >>>almost always good.  But is it reason to be publicly vocal?
>
>    It's always good to be vocal about inappropriate posts. As for the
> poster airing his previous problems with Lattice, perhaps they would
> be better put in a blog or in a post where someone asks about using
> Lattice, but that's a minor thing compared to the original post.
>
> >>>Kill-lists are easy to manage if bart's messages offend you.
>
>    I have better things to do than manage kill lists. I've got "better
> things to do" than write this, but but c.a.e and especially s.e.d have
> been useful to me a while back, and between all the spam and splorge
> in recent years, it's a pleasant surprise to see these groups are
> still viable. So I'm doing my little part to help keep them alive.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>- John_H
>
> >> If we don't discourage commercial posts, newsgroups will be flooded
> >> with them. I can't kill-file the tens of thousands of companies who
> >> would spam newsgroups if they thought it would pay off. So let's make
> >> sure it *doesn't* pay off.
>
> >> If they want to advertise, let them pay for it somewhere else.
>
> >> John
>
> >For what it's worth, I agree with John.
>
> >It's a real shame that we, now, have to go out of our way to filter
> >commercial and sexual posts. There are proper places for both of those.
> >Usenet is not one of them, in my opinion.
>
>    Just to make a slight correction, THESE NEWSGROUPS (see crosspost
> list at the top of my post) are not the proper place for commercial
> posts. There are "marketplace" and "sex" newsgroups - if he's going to
> spam, perhaps Bart Borosky of Lattice would do well to post to those
> instead. There's no telling where a lonely engineer might go in his
> spare time, and after all, "posting to Usenet is free" (as in both
> beer AND speech).
>
>    Post, drink and speak responsibly.
>
>
>
> >Bob

Guys,

I read this thread after it was created and just wanted to ask a
couple of questions (while completely agreeing with the generally
accepted conclusion):
Was all this 'hot air' necessary?
Was all this bad-mouthing coming from some of the authors proper for
the group?

With respect,

In the newsgroups comp.arch.fpga, comp.lang.verilog,
comp.arch.embedded, sci.electronics.design and comp.lang.vhdl, I saw a
thread in which the following words were approximately attributed to
the following posters:

On Wed, 7 May 2008 17:19:31 -0700, "BobW"
<nimby_NEEDSPAM@roadrunner.com> wrote:

>
>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message 
>news:o1e424d2h2uldtu4qm4589v667lu96hip8@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 12:19:40 -0700 (PDT), John_H
>> <newsgroup@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>>
>>>John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To Lattice:
>>>>
>>>> We dumped Lattice over buggy compilers and dinky performance. Now that
>>>> you're spamming our group, I'll make the ban permanent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To the group: 
>>>> Whenever anybody spams us, please
>>>>
>>>> 1. Blackball them as a vendor
>>>>
>>>> 2. Say bad things about their companies and products, preferably with
>>>> lots of google-searchable keywords.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>>Was this really necessary?

   Yes.

>>>If there were technical webcasts from any of the big vendors, I'd like
>>>to know about them though preferably more than 8 minutes beforehand.

   Email them, and sign up for subscriptions to all their blurbs. A
confirmed opt-in email list is a good way to disseminate such info. If
they don't have such a list or don't announce events timely, tell them
you'll only consider sources from companies who do.

>>>If the posts of this nature got to be more than a couple a month from
>>>any one source I'd agree with the spam catagorization but it isn't
>>>that frequent.

   "Well, there's spam egg Lattice and spam, that's not got much spam
in it."

   In other words, "they're not breaking the rules THAT often." With
the thousands of suppliers that provide products and services relevant
to even one of the cross-posted newsgroups, there could be hundreds of
posts per day of "legitimate" commercial posts.

>>>I'm disappointed that you had problems with them in the past and won't
>>>trust them for future designs because of your history; competition is
>>>almost always good.  But is it reason to be publicly vocal?

   It's always good to be vocal about inappropriate posts. As for the
poster airing his previous problems with Lattice, perhaps they would
be better put in a blog or in a post where someone asks about using
Lattice, but that's a minor thing compared to the original post.

>>>Kill-lists are easy to manage if bart's messages offend you.

   I have better things to do than manage kill lists. I've got "better
things to do" than write this, but but c.a.e and especially s.e.d have
been useful to me a while back, and between all the spam and splorge
in recent years, it's a pleasant surprise to see these groups are
still viable. So I'm doing my little part to help keep them alive.

>>>
>>>- John_H
>>
>>
>> If we don't discourage commercial posts, newsgroups will be flooded
>> with them. I can't kill-file the tens of thousands of companies who
>> would spam newsgroups if they thought it would pay off. So let's make
>> sure it *doesn't* pay off.
>>
>> If they want to advertise, let them pay for it somewhere else.
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>
>For what it's worth, I agree with John.
>
>It's a real shame that we, now, have to go out of our way to filter 
>commercial and sexual posts. There are proper places for both of those. 
>Usenet is not one of them, in my opinion.

   Just to make a slight correction, THESE NEWSGROUPS (see crosspost
list at the top of my post) are not the proper place for commercial
posts. There are "marketplace" and "sex" newsgroups - if he's going to
spam, perhaps Bart Borosky of Lattice would do well to post to those
instead. There's no telling where a lonely engineer might go in his
spare time, and after all, "posting to Usenet is free" (as in both
beer AND speech).

   Post, drink and speak responsibly.

>
>Bob

"CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:4823ACED.97C41D24@yahoo.com...
> John Larkin wrote:
>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
> ... snip ...
>>
>>> Please snip the quotes on your replies.
>>
>> Feel free to snip whatever you like.
>
> The point of that request is to avoid burdoning all group users
> with the burdon of paging down over irrelevant material, and to
> reduce the overall load on the Usenet system.
>
> -- 
> [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)

I get it, Chuck. It's okay to overload Usenet with spam but it's not okay to 
overload Usenet by not trimming one's replies.

You should run for president. Next week, perhaps, you'll explain how to 
reconcile the Arabs and the Jews.

Bob
-- 
== NOTE: I automatically delete all Google Group posts due to uncontrolled 
SPAM == 

John Larkin wrote:
> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
... snip ...
>
>> Please snip the quotes on your replies.
> 
> Feel free to snip whatever you like.

The point of that request is to avoid burdoning all group users
with the burdon of paging down over irrelevant material, and to
reduce the overall load on the Usenet system.

-- 
 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
            Try the download section.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Thu, 08 May 2008 13:29:29 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> "Robert Miles" <robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>>> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>... snip ...
>>>
>>>> I'd consider this ON TOPIC and not spam as it was a one-off
>>>> announcement to the correct groups with the correct formatting.
>>>> Some people might very well be interested, this is a
>>>> professional design group with many FPGA designers afer all.
>>>
>>> The message was crossposted to five newsgroups, not just one. 
>>> Are the people who say accept it in the same newsgroup as the
>>> one who say don't?
>> 
>> OK, now imagine every seminar, every call for papers, every new
>> product announcement, every investors conference call, and every
>> new goofy marketing idea being crossposted to five newsgroups,
>> alongside the offers for replica watches, sneakers, and discount
>> drugs and porn.
>> 
>> We need to discourage commercial posts.
>
>But this was not a commercial post.  It was an announcement of
>something of possible interest to all participants on those
>newsgroups.


Well, since we all wear shoes, and most of us like sex, all the
sneaker and porn ads are of possible interest to us.

>
>Please snip the quotes on your replies.

Feel free to snip whatever you like.

John

Robert Miles wrote:
> 
> The message was crossposted to five newsgroups, not just one.  Are the
> people who say accept it in the same newsgroup as the one who say don't?

I'd agree that spanning 5 groups was on the lower end of the IQ scale.
The most relevent group would be comp.arch.fpga

-jg

John Larkin wrote:
> "Robert Miles" <robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
... snip ...
>>
>>> I'd consider this ON TOPIC and not spam as it was a one-off
>>> announcement to the correct groups with the correct formatting.
>>> Some people might very well be interested, this is a
>>> professional design group with many FPGA designers afer all.
>>
>> The message was crossposted to five newsgroups, not just one. 
>> Are the people who say accept it in the same newsgroup as the
>> one who say don't?
> 
> OK, now imagine every seminar, every call for papers, every new
> product announcement, every investors conference call, and every
> new goofy marketing idea being crossposted to five newsgroups,
> alongside the offers for replica watches, sneakers, and discount
> drugs and porn.
> 
> We need to discourage commercial posts.

But this was not a commercial post.  It was an announcement of
something of possible interest to all participants on those
newsgroups.  It should have had a follow-up setting also.

Please snip the quotes on your replies.

-- 
 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
            Try the download section.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Robert Miles wrote:
> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
... snip ...
>
>> Come on guys, get over it, really.  The heading clearly had
>> "ANNC:" and what it was about clearly stated, so the OP did the
>> right thing. It only takes a split second to scan the header to
>> see if you are interested. If you aren't interested then you
>> shouldn't have even opened it.
>>
>> I'd consider this ON TOPIC and not spam as it was a one-off
>> announcement to the correct groups with the correct formatting.
>>
>> Some people might very well be interested, this is a professional
>> design group with many FPGA designers afer all.
>
> The message was crossposted to five newsgroups, not just one.  Are
> the people who say accept it in the same newsgroup as the one who
> say don't?

I accepted it, and I am posting in comp.arch.embedded.

Please snip your quotes.

-- 
 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
            Try the download section.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Thu, 8 May 2008 10:53:36 -0500, "Robert Miles"
<robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote:

>
>"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:4822f3a7$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>
>> "BobW" <nimby_NEEDSPAM@roadrunner.com> wrote in message 
>> news:q9KdnYE_8uqU2r_VnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in 
>>> message news:o1e424d2h2uldtu4qm4589v667lu96hip8@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 12:19:40 -0700 (PDT), John_H
>>>> <newsgroup@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To Lattice:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We dumped Lattice over buggy compilers and dinky performance. Now that
>>>>>> you're spamming our group, I'll make the ban permanent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the group:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whenever anybody spams us, please
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Blackball them as a vendor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Say bad things about their companies and products, preferably with
>>>>>> lots of google-searchable keywords.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>Was this really necessary?
>>>>>
>>>>>If there were technical webcasts from any of the big vendors, I'd like
>>>>>to know about them though preferably more than 8 minutes beforehand.
>>>>>If the posts of this nature got to be more than a couple a month from
>>>>>any one source I'd agree with the spam catagorization but it isn't
>>>>>that frequent.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm disappointed that you had problems with them in the past and won't
>>>>>trust them for future designs because of your history; competition is
>>>>>almost always good.  But is it reason to be publicly vocal?
>>>>>
>>>>>Kill-lists are easy to manage if bart's messages offend you.
>>>>>
>>>>>- John_H
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If we don't discourage commercial posts, newsgroups will be flooded
>>>> with them. I can't kill-file the tens of thousands of companies who
>>>> would spam newsgroups if they thought it would pay off. So let's make
>>>> sure it *doesn't* pay off.
>>>>
>>>> If they want to advertise, let them pay for it somewhere else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I agree with John.
>>>
>>> It's a real shame that we, now, have to go out of our way to filter 
>>> commercial and sexual posts. There are proper places for both of those. 
>>> Usenet is not one of them, in my opinion.
>>
>> Come on guys, get over it, really.
>> The heading clearly had "ANNC:" and what it was about clearly stated, so 
>> the OP did the right thing.
>> It only takes a split second to scan the header to see if you are 
>> interested. If you aren't interested then you shouldn't have even opened 
>> it.
>> I'd consider this ON TOPIC and not spam as it was a one-off announcement 
>> to the correct groups with the correct formatting.
>> Some people might very well be interested, this is a professional design 
>> group with many FPGA designers afer all.
>>
>> Dave.
>The message was crossposted to five newsgroups, not just one.  Are the
>people who say accept it in the same newsgroup as the one who say don't?
>

OK, now imagine every seminar, every call for papers, every new
product announcement, every investors conference call, and every new
goofy marketing idea being crossposted to five newsgroups, alongside
the offers for replica watches, sneakers, and discount drugs and porn.

We need to discourage commercial posts.

John