>> Afaik, FPGAs were only reverse-engineered once: NeoCad put out a
>> 3rd-party CAD suite for some of the Xilinx parts. Their tools were
>> better than Xilinx, so Xilinx bought them, & everything went back
>> under wraps again.
> Still, not a totally unpleasant outcome for the 3rd party - especially
> if they paid a reasonable amount for it.
Well, "thanks" to the DMCA and similar legislation, these days they most
likely wouldn't receive a single dime. They'd just get their pants
sued right off 'em. They might have to consider themselves lucky if
they can avoid a jail sentence.
Reply by Didi●May 19, 20082008-05-19
cs_post...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The information to write a compiler is closely held - NDA, or worse.
In my experience it has always been "worse", and I have been
asking.
Around 2000 I even thought I had all the info I needed from Philips
on their Coolrunners and designed some in - only to discover I
was missing an important piece of data (the multiplexor addressing
scheme). It took writing a specific software to reverse engineer that,
a few weeks of serious work.
> The information needed to download bitstream files produced by
> official tools is quite a bit more accessible,
> i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
You have to differentiate between a 'compiler' type of function and a
'downloader' type of one.
The information to write a compiler is closely held - NDA, or worse.
The information needed to download bitstream files produced by
official tools is quite a bit more accessible,
usually published by the manufacturer for some formats (possibly even
with example source code), or often
already reverse engineered by someone.
In addition to a variety of HDL source file formats, configuration
files, and output file options, there are also a metric ton of
proprietary, partially understood, and fully specified intermediate
files unique to each tool flow. Listing them all would be a lengthy
exercise!
Reply by cth●May 18, 20082008-05-18
David R Brooks wrote:
> Didi wrote:
>> cheri...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> you mean, even the name of the file format is kept as a secret by the
>>> company?
>>
>> I would not know. How they call their secret internal data is beyond
>> the scope of my interest.
>>
>>> or is it the mapping of the fusebits to the different bits in the file
>>> format?
>>
>> That's definitely secret. I know of no alternative source of FPGA and
>> of
>> only one for CPLD programming software. The latter is my lc for DPS
>> for the original (Philips) coolrunners - and I had to do some
>> significant
>> reverse engineering back then to get to all the data I needed to do
>> it.
>>
>>> i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
>>
>> You are unlikely to get much beyond good luck wishes from anyone;
>> you have mine.
>> Other than that you will be on your own.
>> I would be curious to see your results if any in a years time.
>>
> Afaik, FPGAs were only reverse-engineered once: NeoCad put out a
> 3rd-party CAD suite for some of the Xilinx parts. Their tools were
> better than Xilinx, so Xilinx bought them, & everything went back under
> wraps again.
Still, not a totally unpleasant outcome for the 3rd party - especially
if they paid a reasonable amount for it.
Cth
Reply by David R Brooks●May 18, 20082008-05-18
Didi wrote:
> cheri...@gmail.com wrote:
>> you mean, even the name of the file format is kept as a secret by the
>> company?
>
> I would not know. How they call their secret internal data is beyond
> the scope of my interest.
>
>> or is it the mapping of the fusebits to the different bits in the file
>> format?
>
> That's definitely secret. I know of no alternative source of FPGA and
> of
> only one for CPLD programming software. The latter is my lc for DPS
> for the original (Philips) coolrunners - and I had to do some
> significant
> reverse engineering back then to get to all the data I needed to do
> it.
>
>> i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
>
> You are unlikely to get much beyond good luck wishes from anyone;
> you have mine.
> Other than that you will be on your own.
> I would be curious to see your results if any in a years time.
>
Afaik, FPGAs were only reverse-engineered once: NeoCad put out a
3rd-party CAD suite for some of the Xilinx parts. Their tools were
better than Xilinx, so Xilinx bought them, & everything went back under
wraps again.
Reply by Didi●May 18, 20082008-05-18
cheri...@gmail.com wrote:
> you mean, even the name of the file format is kept as a secret by the
> company?
I would not know. How they call their secret internal data is beyond
the scope of my interest.
> or is it the mapping of the fusebits to the different bits in the file
> format?
That's definitely secret. I know of no alternative source of FPGA and
of
only one for CPLD programming software. The latter is my lc for DPS
for the original (Philips) coolrunners - and I had to do some
significant
reverse engineering back then to get to all the data I needed to do
it.
> i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
> you mean, even the name of the file format is kept as a secret by the
> company?
Why do you assume they would have bothered with giving it a name in the
first place?
> i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
The fact that you're asking here pretty much guarantees that the chip
vendors won't give you the necessary information.
Reply by ●May 18, 20082008-05-18
you mean, even the name of the file format is kept as a secret by the
company?
or is it the mapping of the fusebits to the different bits in the file
format?
i was planning to implement a programer that would work with any fpga
regards
cherin
Reply by Didi●May 17, 20082008-05-17
cheri...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can someone give me a comprehensive list of the different file formats
> that are used with fpgas?
These are all secret. If you will use FPGAs you have to accept that
you will be able to work only with the high-level programming tools
available for the respective silicon.
Same is valid for the CPLDs - although at least there you
can - under NDA - get the fusemap translation JEDEC -> JTAG
sequence, at least this is valid for the Coolrunner CPLD.
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
Reply by ●May 17, 20082008-05-17
Can someone give me a comprehensive list of the different file formats
that are used with fpgas?