Reply by juan89ss December 11, 20052005-12-11
Hi all

I love to program PICs on assembler code and one of my "must have
tools" is a debugger tool because when you are typing code, you
always can make mistakes (i.e. change a movf with a movwf) and for
that reason, a debugger lets you analyze and see where is the error.

ICD2 is a hardware debugger, it means that you can "see" your
program running directly on the MCU, so far, this is less arduous
than burning the MCU, connecting leds to all the ports and
implementing serial communications routines to see what happens at
certain program code portions.

Another way of debugging (which is the one I actually use) is using
MPSIM, a software debugging tool provided with MPLAB IDE.
(personally I prefer to use this instead of ICD2).

Special thank's to Hasan for providing us the ICD2 schematics.

Juan Sebastian
--- In piclist@picl..., "Bob Hyland, PMP" <BobHyland@A...>
wrote:
>
> I have a discussion question for the group. Background: I am
fairly
> new to PIC's. I am mainly working with the 40 pin devices (16F747
&
> 16F777) on my current project. To date, I have done my debugging
by
> using I/O to LED's, LCD's and my trusty 'scope.
>
> Question: What advatages (and disadvatanges) are gained by using
> these in circuit debuggers?
>
> I am trying to figure out if this is one of those "gotta have it"
> things or if it is a nice to have. Also, do you need to buy more
> parts than just the ICD2 (or a clone) to work with the 40 pin
> devices (e.g. a header board or a daughter board)? Does anyone
else
> use my method of debugging?
>
> I am looking for opinions.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob H.
>
> --- In piclist@picl..., Hasan Arslan <arslanweb@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > You can made your ICD2 by itself.
> >
> > I have upload the Schematics, PCBs and Bootloader software.
> >
> > http://rapidshare.de/files/8741335/icd2_electoday.rar.html
> >
> > Good look...
> >
> > Hasan ARSLAN
>



Reply by Fresh Nelly Musik December 9, 20052005-12-09

There are times when I wish I had an in circuit debugger. They save time for
sure from pulling the chip (as is the case with most of my stuff), and
aleviate the guesswork (more time) I use the same method as you but must
admit that single stepping through hundreds of lines of code -especially
when more than one uP is used, can be a daunting task at best.

I guess it depends on how complex it all, and it's I/O, is. Or how good one
is at writing code!


Reply by Dwayne Reid December 8, 20052005-12-08
At 10:21 AM 12/8/2005, Bob Hyland, PMP wrote:
>I have a discussion question for the group. Background: I am fairly
>new to PIC's. I am mainly working with the 40 pin devices (16F747 &
>16F777) on my current project. To date, I have done my debugging by
>using I/O to LED's, LCD's and my trusty 'scope.
>
>Question: What advatages (and disadvatanges) are gained by using
>these in circuit debuggers?

I now consider that having and using something like a debugger or in
circuit emulator is one of those "must have" tools.

I, too, have spent my fair share of time building and debugging "from
the inside out" - that is: get some form of output communications
working, then build from there. And, you know, that suffices for at
least 90% of my projects.

But there are times when only a debugger or emulator will allow me to
find and fix weird hardware or software errors. The kinds of
problems that show up only once in a blue moon, due, perhaps, to some
interaction between multiple asynchronous events or because the dude
writing the software (me) made some stupid assumption.

I'll sometimes go weeks without firing up the debugger. On the other
hand, there are times when I've done all the development for a
project using the emulator hooked up the whole time. Sometimes I'm
just using it as a super fast down-loader (kind of the burn and crash
programming cycle but on steroids). Other times its because of some
subtle interaction between the outside world and the project. The
trace buffer that the emulator offers can save much time in those cases.

The real charm in using either a debugger or emulator is watching
register contents change as you single-step through a troublesome
piece of code. Sometimes all it takes is one look to see and
understand the problem.

The MPLAB ICE2000 emulator comes with a hefty price tag. But the
debugger (ICD, ICD2) can be had for little more than the price of a
couple of meals at a nice restaurant - especially if you purchase one
of the clones from Olimex.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid <dwayner@dway...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 21 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2005)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.


Reply by Dennis Clark December 8, 20052005-12-08
Most of us probably debug with "printf", but when you can't do that, or
you have a really weird problem, the ICD feature is very neat. The
Microchip ICD2 gives it to you on the cheap too. I don't use it much,
but when I need it, it has proven invaluable.

DLC

Bob Hyland, PMP wrote:
> I have a discussion question for the group. Background: I am fairly
> new to PIC's. I am mainly working with the 40 pin devices (16F747 &
> 16F777) on my current project. To date, I have done my debugging by
> using I/O to LED's, LCD's and my trusty 'scope.
>
> Question: What advatages (and disadvatanges) are gained by using
> these in circuit debuggers?
>
> I am trying to figure out if this is one of those "gotta have it"
> things or if it is a nice to have. Also, do you need to buy more
> parts than just the ICD2 (or a clone) to work with the 40 pin
> devices (e.g. a header board or a daughter board)? Does anyone else
> use my method of debugging?
>
> I am looking for opinions.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob H.
>
> --- In piclist@picl..., Hasan Arslan <arslanweb@y...> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>> You can made your ICD2 by itself.
>>
>> I have upload the Schematics, PCBs and Bootloader software.
>>
>> http://rapidshare.de/files/8741335/icd2_electoday.rar.html
>>
>> Good look...
>>
>> Hasan ARSLAN > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links >


--
---
Dennis Clark TTT Enterprises
---



Reply by rtstofer December 8, 20052005-12-08
--- In piclist@picl..., "Bob Hyland, PMP" <BobHyland@A...>
wrote:
>
> I have a discussion question for the group. Background: I am
fairly
> new to PIC's. I am mainly working with the 40 pin devices (16F747
&
> 16F777) on my current project. To date, I have done my debugging
by
> using I/O to LED's, LCD's and my trusty 'scope.
>
> Question: What advatages (and disadvatanges) are gained by using
> these in circuit debuggers?
>
> I am trying to figure out if this is one of those "gotta have it"
> things or if it is a nice to have. Also, do you need to buy more
> parts than just the ICD2 (or a clone) to work with the 40 pin
> devices (e.g. a header board or a daughter board)? Does anyone
else
> use my method of debugging?
>
> I am looking for opinions.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob H.

I haven't fallen in love with in-circuit debugging even though the
ARM processors I am currently using all support JTAG debuggers. In
the case of the ARM devices, I have to give up too many pins.

In fact, I have NEVER had access to an in-circuit debugger. So, for
the last 30 years I have brought up systems using the very same
approach as you. I get serial output to work, then I get serial
input to work. Then I write the code for a 'monitor' that will
allow me to send hex files to execute and, from then on, it is all
downhill (applies to 8080s, Z80s, etc.). Now, that approach doesn't
work exactly the same on PICs because I can't download executables
to a resident 'monitor' but the idea is the same. Stepwise
refinement.

I believe it is a huge waste of time to write the entire program, or
even a major portion, without debugging it in pieces.

Blinking LEDs are useful but sometimes they go by too fast. I often
use output pins to sync my scope to the beginning of an event that I
want to see. Perhaps an I2C packet coming out or something like
that. I do the same thing with the interrupt routine. I set a pin
on entry and clear it on exit. This will let me scope the rate of
interrupts and the duration of the code.

There are a lot of little tricks that can overcome the lack of an in-
circuit debugger. I just haven't seen the need...

Richard


Reply by Bob Hyland, PMP December 8, 20052005-12-08
I have a discussion question for the group. Background: I am fairly
new to PIC's. I am mainly working with the 40 pin devices (16F747 &
16F777) on my current project. To date, I have done my debugging by
using I/O to LED's, LCD's and my trusty 'scope.

Question: What advatages (and disadvatanges) are gained by using
these in circuit debuggers?

I am trying to figure out if this is one of those "gotta have it"
things or if it is a nice to have. Also, do you need to buy more
parts than just the ICD2 (or a clone) to work with the 40 pin
devices (e.g. a header board or a daughter board)? Does anyone else
use my method of debugging?

I am looking for opinions.

Thank you,

Bob H.

--- In piclist@picl..., Hasan Arslan <arslanweb@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> You can made your ICD2 by itself.
>
> I have upload the Schematics, PCBs and Bootloader software.
>
> http://rapidshare.de/files/8741335/icd2_electoday.rar.html
>
> Good look...
>
> Hasan ARSLAN




Reply by Hasan Arslan December 7, 20052005-12-07
Try with this link.
 
http://s48.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0JPZPHC4VWQB82LOWB0ASMFK90
 
 
 


cristian <c...@b.astral.ro> wrote:
The page cannot be downloaded. 
I have upload the Schematics, PCBs and Bootloader software.
 
http://rapidshare.de/files/8741335/icd2_electoday.rar.html
 
Good look...
 
Hasan ARSLAN
 
 
 
 



Yahoo! Personals
Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Reply by cristian December 7, 20052005-12-07
The page cannot be downloaded.  
I have upload the Schematics, PCBs and Bootloader software.
 
http://rapidshare.de/files/8741335/icd2_electoday.rar.html
 
Good look...
 
Hasan ARSLAN
 
 
 
 
Reply by Joe Sinicropi December 6, 20052005-12-06
Hi I found the PVK40 a pretty good board with lots of stuff to test out....
 
http://www.pic-tools.com/kit_pvk40.htm 
 
-Joe

From: p...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:p...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Marconett
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:14 PM
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [piclist] New to Pics

Hi Marcelo,

 

Several different development boards (PIC V1 Board) are available from:  https://www.micro4you.com/  Also a ICD2 Clone (ICD2 PIC IN-CIRCUIT DEBUGGER).

 

 

I also bought the 18F452 PIC book:  http://www.picbook.com/   A little pricey for a book, but the company is paying for it.  The book does include the Qwik Flash board (bare), and a kit of parts from Digi-Key populates it (purchased separately).

 

Another good source is Dontronics, which is often mentioned.  And then the PICDEM FS USB board if youre interested in USB on the PIC (MicroChip). 

 

Alan  KM6VV

 

 

From: p...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:p...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcelo Benitez
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:03 AM
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [piclist] New to Pics

 

Can you please provide link for the board you bought?

 

tks

 

Marcelo

Alan Marconett <K...@arrl.net> escribi

Hi Mark,

You can get a FREE DEMO (light) C compiler (ANSI C) for the '877 (and some
others) from Hi-Tech.  Or you can write ASM code and use the MpLab as you
have discovered.  CCS has C compilers and support routines to make writing a
program for a PIC a snap.

MpLab is also quite friendly to the Hi-Tech compiler and others.

For programmers, there are clone ICD2's from Olimex or you can build one
from scratch.  From DIY there are a slew of K's (K159, K150...).  The old
pro40's might work for you.  You can even buy a PICstart or ICD2 or... from
MicroChip!

I just bought a PC877 demo board from kits4you, but the jury is still out on
its support (problems reading Thai manuals and Thai filenames on CD).  It
comes with a dongle and a windows program to program it's '877.
Inexpensive!

Alan  KM6VV




Reply by thenaxian December 6, 20052005-12-06
--- In piclist@picl..., "Alan Marconett" <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
>
> Hi Marcelo,
> Hi Marcelo

I just posted the address of an excellent outfit for purchasing
boards. Go to www.wesedu.com. I purchased two of their boards, and
they excellent.

Andy
>
>
> Several different development boards (PIC V1 Board) are available
from:
> https://www.micro4you.com/ Also a ICD2 Clone (ICD2 PIC IN-CIRCUIT
> DEBUGGER). > I also bought the 18F452 PIC book: http://www.picbook.com/ A
little
> pricey for a book, but the company is paying for it. The book does
include
> the Qwik Flash board (bare), and a kit of parts from Digi-Key
populates it
> (purchased separately). >
> Another good source is Dontronics, which is often mentioned. And
then the
> PICDEM FS USB board if you're interested in USB on the PIC
(MicroChip).
> Alan KM6VV > _____
>
> From: piclist@picl... [mailto:piclist@picl...] On
Behalf Of
> Marcelo Benitez
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:03 AM
> To: piclist@picl...
> Subject: RE: [piclist] New to Pics >
> Can you please provide link for the board you bought? >
> tks >
> Marcelo
>
> Alan Marconett <KM6VV@a...> escribi
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> You can get a FREE DEMO (light) C compiler (ANSI C) for the '877
(and some
> others) from Hi-Tech. Or you can write ASM code and use the MpLab
as you
> have discovered. CCS has C compilers and support routines to make
writing a
> program for a PIC a snap.
>
> MpLab is also quite friendly to the Hi-Tech compiler and others.
>
> For programmers, there are clone ICD2's from Olimex or you can
build one
> from scratch. From DIY there are a slew of K's (K159, K150...).
The old
> pro40's might work for you. You can even buy a PICstart or ICD2
or... from
> MicroChip!
>
> I just bought a PC877 demo board from kits4you, but the jury is
still out on
> its support (problems reading Thai manuals and Thai filenames on
CD). It
> comes with a dongle and a windows program to program it's '877.
> Inexpensive!
>
> Alan KM6VV >
> _____
>