<juanma.freelance@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbf851fb-651e-4c99-ac11-561f5a9b8e54@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On 1 oct, 07:12, "PhilW" <p...@microcoin.com> wrote:
> <juanma.freela...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ed142d1d-3df5-40ee-8eea-d698f3fbb7be@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 1 oct, 01:42, "PhilW" <p...@microcoin.com> wrote:
>
> > <juanma.freela...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ef120646-80af-45a8-91c1-d53caeabeb53@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On 30 sep, 03:09, "PhilW" <p...@microcoin.com> wrote:
> > >> <juanma.freela...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >>news:73aaa712-5e75-4674-a2b2-3a62b78569a3@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > >> On 29 sep, 20:29, James Beck <j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > In article <29c16500-d3a1-4d46-a7d4-
> > >> > 59492ef13...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> > >> > juanma.freela...@gmail.com
> > >> > says...
>
> > >> > > On 29 sep, 17:56, James Beck <j...@reallykillersystems.com>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > > In article <3834d44e-355e-4d5f-af57-87e9ec4c0a97
> > >> > > > @z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, juanma.freela...@gmail.com
> > >> > > > says...
>
> > >> > > > > On 29 sep, 16:33, James Beck <j...@reallykillersystems.com>
> > >> > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > In article <1da3a443-e530-487a-8cb7-e4166e206414
> > >> > > > > > @i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, juanma.pal...@gmail.com
> > >> > > > > > says...
>
> > >> > > > > > > On 29 sep, 11:11, juanma.freela...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > On 29 sep, 03:32, "PhilW" <p...@microcoin.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > <juanma.freela...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >> > > > > > > > >news:c4d5b1b0-ea81-446b-ba2a-4f7ebe2811c3@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi!
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry but I am not English and I speack English
> > >> > > > > > > > > > very
> > >> > > > > > > > > > bad.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > My question is: How connect a PC Embedded to
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Vending
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Machine? I know
> > >> > > > > > > > > > that exist a protocol MDB that is used by vending
> > >> > > > > > > > > > machine,
> > >> > > > > > > > > > but this
> > >> > > > > > > > > > conector is different to pc conector (RS232, USB,
> > >> > > > > > > > > > i2c,
> > >> > > > > > > > > > etc). Can I
> > >> > > > > > > > > > connect a PC Embedded by MDB? How?
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Anybody understand me?
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks you!
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > We understand you.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > Read the spec to understand what is required to
> > >> > > > > > > > > connect.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > However, even once you have done the hardware to be
> > >> > > > > > > > > able
> > >> > > > > > > > > to
> > >> > > > > > > > > connect to a
> > >> > > > > > > > > PC's RS232 port you will, more than likely run into
> > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > > problem of the 9bit
> > >> > > > > > > > > char format not being supported on a std PC serial
> > >> > > > > > > > > port.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > You can fudge it using the mark/space parity control
> > >> > > > > > > > > but
> > >> > > > > > > > > it
> > >> > > > > > > > > is not very
> > >> > > > > > > > > nice.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > Why don't you use ccTalk instead?www.cctalk.org
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > regards
> > >> > > > > > > > > PhilW
>
> > >> > > > > > > > Thanks you.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > I dont understand all, what is "ccTalk"??
>
> > >> > > > > > > > regards.
> > >> > > > > > > > Juanma.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > > > > > I read a little about spec of "ccTalk", and this is other
> > >> > > > > > > protocol,
> > >> > > > > > > no?
>
> > >> > > > > > > I need "to talk" with a vending machine. The standard of
> > >> > > > > > > vending
> > >> > > > > > > machine is the MDB (i think).
>
> > >> > > > > > > Are you understand me?
>
> > >> > > > > > > Thanks you.
> > >> > > > > > > regards.
>
> > >> > > > > > Here is a USB to MDB bridge
> > >> > > > > > :http://www.geocities.com/bonusdata/analyzer/mdb_interface/mdb_interface.
> > >> > > > > > htm
> > >> > > > > > (sorry for the spanning)
>
> > >> > > > > > Here is the protocol
> > >> > > > > > :http://www.vending.org/technical/MDB_3.0.pdf
>
> > >> > > > > >www.vending.orgiswhereyouneedtogo for any info about
> > >> > > > > >MDC/ICP-
> > >> > > > > >Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > > > Thanks you!!
>
> > >> > > > > I know this all, but the "USB to MDB" is not a good solution
> > >> > > > > for
> > >> > > > > me,
> > >> > > > > should be others solutions...
>
> > >> > > > > I am interesting in ccTal PhilW but i dont understand how
> > >> > > > > apply
> > >> > > > > this
> > >> > > > > to the vending machine.
>
> > >> > > > If the vending machine does not speak CCTalk then there is no
> > >> > > > way
> > >> > > > to
> > >> > > > apply it at all, in this case. MDB/ICP is the way you will have
> > >> > > > to
> > >> > > > go.
> > >> > > > CCTalk was designed more along the lines of gaming systems and
> > >> > > > MDB
> > >> > > > was
> > >> > > > designed for vending machines and the like. Not that you
> > >> > > > couldn't
> > >> > > > use
> > >> > > > CCTalk in a vending machine, but MDB was standardized for use
> > >> > > > in
> > >> > > > them
> > >> > > > (vending machines) long ago.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > > Oh James Beck, i think that you have reason.
>
> > >> > > My problem is how comunicate the pc embedded with vending machine
> > >> > > with
> > >> > > the protocol MDB... If the unique solution the "MDB --> USB
> > >> > > adapter"?
> > >> > > If you sum the price that a pcembedded+adapter ... for one for
> > >> > > machine
> > >> > > is very expensive no? it must of having another solution, no?
>
> > >> > > Thanks you!
> > >> > > regards.
>
> > >> > Well, if you doing a one off machine, there will never be any
> > >> > economy
> > >> > of
> > >> > scale. If I were doing a single machine/test station, I wouldn't
> > >> > balk
> > >> > at paying the price for the adapter. If I were doing thousands of
> > >> > them
> > >> > I would look at doing something more task specific and cheaper. You
> > >> > can
> > >> > implement the protocol yourself with some kind of adapter for the
> > >> > PC
> > >> > and
> > >> > a communications library, but that would be what the specification
> > >> > is
> > >> > for.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> Oh, I see that you understand me :)
>
> > >> I need to create adapter for MDB to any port (serial?) the PC ... it
> > >> is difficult? I know computer science, but the electronic... :( any
> > >> idea?
>
> > >> Thanks you!
> > >> regards.
>
> > >> An adaptor is not an easy thing to do, simply due to the fact you
> > >> need
> > >> to
> > >> maintain the timing specifications of the MDB protocol. An adaptor
> > >> that
> > >> just
> > >> recieves a command from the PC, re-formats it for MDB and then sends
> > >> it
> > >> on,
> > >> waits for the response and forwards that to the PC will easily break
> > >> the
> > >> timing criteria of the protocol, considering that each char takes 1mS
> > >> to
> > >> transmit or receive.
>
> > >> Concerning USB adaptors. Can be good providing they support, and
> > >> implement
> > >> the mark/space parity support correctly. However, you still have to
> > >> provide
> > >> low level coding to fudge the 9 bits via the mark/space parity. In
> > >> addition
> > >> you will be required to add timing delays to ensure the parity
> > >> changes
> > >> are
> > >> sent over USB before transmitting the next data or parity change. We
> > >> have
> > >> had success with the CP2102 from silicon Labs. It is sure however,
> > >> from
> > >> experience, that supporting MDB over USB is a lot more painful than a
> > >> standard serial port.
>
> > >> Another alternative is to acquire an add-on serial port that natively
> > >> supports 9 data bits at the hardware level. Not cheap, hard to find
> > >> and
> > >> expensive.
>
> > >> As for the vending machine implementation, you have not said, but I
> > >> conclude
> > >> that YOUare building the vending machine and YOU therefore have
> > >> control
> > >> over
> > >> the protocol to use. Unless by some specification requirement that
> > >> you
> > >> use
> > >> MDB, I see no reason why you cannot use ccTalk. I believe the
> > >> "protocol"
> > >> is
> > >> purely for internal machine use, aimed at connecting all peripherals
> > >> to
> > >> a
> > >> host controller, namely your embedded PC. Any external communications
> > >> is
> > >> usually by some other communications link, modem, ethernet, wifi,
> > >> etc.
> > >> Why
> > >> ccTalk? It's simple and most importantly can be easily supported by
> > >> any
> > >> PC
> > >> serial port, USB adaptor etc that supports the standard 8bit char
> > >> length.
> > >> It
> > >> could be any other protocol besides, that uses the 8bit data length
> > >> as
> > >> well.
> > >> It's just that ccTalk is well documented, well supported and widely
> > >> used.
>
> > >> We produce products that support both MDB and ccTalk in addition to
> > >> others.
> > >> We much prefer ccTalk for its non requirement of the 9bit data
> > >> format.
>
> > >> regards
> > >> PhilW- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > >> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > > Oh, no, I am not a building the vending machine and I haven't control
> > > over the protocol to use, it is the problem. I need use the protocol
> > > standard in the most vending machine, that is, MDB.
>
> > > Do you understand me PhilW? Sorry for my English.
>
> > > regards.
>
> > Ok, then you have no choice but to write low level code to fudge the
> > 9bit
> > char by using the mark/space parity control.
>
> > You do this by programming the UART 8bit with parity, that makes the 9
> > bits.
> > The parity you program to be manually controlled using the mark/space
> > controls to simulate the ninth bit.
> > When you sent the first byte of the message, you first make parity to be
> > Mark, this makes effective 9th bit set = address byte. Send the address
> > byte.
> > You then make parity to be Space for remainder of message = 9th bit
> > clear.
>
> > To receive a reply just set to space parity and look for parity error
> > for
> > end of message. Since this is a fudge you will be at risk to
> > miss-interpreting a real parity error, but that is the consequences of
> > not
> > having full 9 bit support in hardware.
>
> > Anyhow good luck. It can be done, I know because we support it. It's
> > just
> > not an ideal solution. Until you really know what you doing in it's
> > implementation, stay away from virtual serial ports over USB because
> > they
> > do
> > not act the same as a standard serial port. They move data in blocks and
> > will not maintain the parity manipulation synchronously with the data
> > bytes.
> > They will need delays to allow the control commands to transfer before
> > sending the data etc. This will slow down your effective data rate under
> > MDB.
>
> > Also you should make an investment in a good serial coms monitor tool,
> > that
> > can capture and timestamp every event on the link between the host and
> > the
> > device. It will pay for itself easily in the time you save discovering
> > what
> > is really happening in the transfer. We used a tool called "ViewComm
> > Async"
> > fromwww.greenleafsoft.com. Such a tool is worth it's weight in gold.
>
> > regards ...
>
> > leer m�s �- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> Oh, I think that I understand you.
>
> But, I have a question. How connect MDB to Serial Port, for use the
> monitor tool??
>
> Thanks you!!
> regards.
> Juan.
>
> Juan,
> I think you need to read the spec. There are to many details to deal with
> here.
>
> To connect to the PC you must build and interface circuit. How you do that
> is up to you.
> Sect 4 of the spec tells you all you need to know. It even gives a sample
> schematic.
>
> The bus is a multi drop bus, many slaves with one master.
> You still have not made clear which one you want to be. I know you have
> said
> you are not building the vending machine, but you also have not said what
> you want to be, Host or slave. Are you the host controller or are you one
> of
> the slave devices.
> I assume you do understand that the protocol is an internal machine
> protocol
> and that you do not talk to the machine from the outside using MDB?
>
> Anyhow, as for connecting to the PC. Assuming you are the host, the
> interface you build will give an output of RS232 that you can connect to
> the
> PC. The monitor you simply insert in between the interface and the PC.
>
> regards
> PhilW
Yes, I want that my pc embedded will be a Slave.
I want that my pc embedded will be as a Communications Gateway
(Section 8) for to receive all the information from the VMC. It is
possible?
regards.
Juan.
Hi Juan,
Yes it is possible, but everything I mentioned previously remains the same.
To be honest we have not looked at Section 8, we are mainly involved in
coin/note validation. However, nothing else changes. The device you want to
build is still just a device that must meet the standard MDB interface
specification.
Connection to the MDB bus for you as a device is much simpler than that of a
host. You can get away with a couple of opto couplers, just like in the
sample schematic in that section 4. You would be for eg slave 1.
PhilW