H-Bridge issue

Started by hmwong76 May 7, 2008
Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24
and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is
not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up
my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but
it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and
pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.
As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore
my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after
troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and
my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin
4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the
problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is
for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as
of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.
HM Wong
Hi,
I checked the TC4469 your are right the circuit is energizing the two left mosfet causing a short to ground. I think the only you have to do switched pins 11 and 10. This will enable? the left mosfet that supply the voltage through the motor and the right mosfet that supply the ground when rev = 0. My suggestion to you is to use a fuse of 1.2 amp to pin 14? until you debug the logic. This is the max. load that the TC4469 can handle.
Good luck!
rosarite

www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...
Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:59 pm
Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue

Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24

and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor

controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is

not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using

Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up

my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but

it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output

side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below

ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf

www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and

pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.

As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore

my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after

troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and

my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin

4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9

with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the

problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is

for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as

of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.

HM Wong


Hi HM Wong,

I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge but
my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the
bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic output
by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.

I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of the zener
suggests that something was wired differently than the example circuit.

You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring
and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is correct.

Best Regards, Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: hmwong76
To: b...
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue
Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24
and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is
not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up
my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but
it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and
pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.
As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore
my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after
troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and
my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin
4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the
problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is
for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as
of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.
HM Wong


Thank you for both, eserdhal@ and r...@aol.com for the quick
reply. Will check over the logics as well as the polarities of all
the components. Well, kinda treat this as a lesson, more like less-
than-RM20 lesson or less-than-USD6.14 lesson. Still, thanks for your
inputs.

Regards.
HM Wong
--- In b..., "eserdahl@" wrote:
>
> Hi HM Wong,
>
> I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge
but
> my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the
> bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic
output
> by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.
>
> I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of
the zener
> suggests that something was wired differently than the example
circuit.
>
> You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring
> and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is
correct.
>
> Best Regards, Eric
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmwong76
> To: b...
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM
> Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue
> Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-
24
> and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
> controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so
electronics is
> not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.
>
> Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
> Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew
up
> my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended
but
> it ended up as it is.
>
> Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
> side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
> www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf
>
> When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low
and
> pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is
High.
> As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side,
therefore
> my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So,
after
> troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469
and
> my N-channel MOSFET.
>
> My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having
pin
> 4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
> with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve
the
> problem I guess.
>
> So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as
well), is
> for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments
as
> of my re-routing.
>
> Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.
>
> Best regards.
> HM Wong
>
>
>
>
>

HM Wong,

Just curious - how much current do you need for your motors? I'm very
fond of the LMD18200 H-Bridge, which is good for 3A continous and 6A
peak. It's simple to control with any MCU and makes a low-parts-count
controller.

Regards,
Don
Hi,
I double checked and I was wrong. The circuit is OKAY. I overlooked that the top mosfets? are P-channel and the bottom ones are N-channels. Sorry for the misleading.

Rosarite

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...
Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 4:43 am
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Thank you for both, eserdhal@ and r...@aol.com for the quick

reply. Will check over the logics as well as the polarities of all

the components. Well, kinda treat this as a lesson, more like less-

than-RM20 lesson or less-than-USD6.14 lesson. Still, thanks for your

inputs.

Regards.

HM Wong

--- In b..., "eserdahl@" wrote:

>

> Hi HM Wong,

>

> I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge

but

> my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the

> bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic

output

> by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.

>

> I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of

the zener

> suggests that something was wired differently than the example

circuit.

>

> You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring

> and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is

correct.

>

> Best Regards, Eric

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: hmwong76

> To: b...

> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM

> Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue

>

>

> Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-

24

> and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor

> controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so

electronics is

> not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

>

> Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using

> Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew

up

> my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended

but

> it ended up as it is.

>

> Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output

> side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below

> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf

> www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

>

> When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low

and

> pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is

High.

> As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side,

therefore

> my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So,

after

> troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469

and

> my N-channel MOSFET.

>

> My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having

pin

> 4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9

> with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve

the

> problem I guess.

>

> So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as

well), is

> for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments

as

> of my re-routing.

>

> Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

>

> Best regards.

> HM Wong

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you are at http://domains.aol.com

Don,

I did a search on the LMD18200, it's great and seems as what you
commented, low-parts-count. I would say my running spec falls within
the capability of the LMD18200. I'm only running the motor at 14.4V,
with 24V battery setup, peak current usage (provided not stalled)
might just go up to about 5A.

At the end of the day, I would say it falls back onto myself. I
wanted to learn the very basic of using MOSFETs and it's driver.
Learning from the bottom up I guess. For simplicity sake, without a
doubt LMD18200 is the way to go. For learning purposes of building up
the whole circuit, I guess using discreet components (have to admit
that TC4469 is an IC) will allow my learning from the basics.

Regards.

--- In b..., "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> HM Wong,
>
> Just curious - how much current do you need for your motors? I'm
very
> fond of the LMD18200 H-Bridge, which is good for 3A continous and
6A
> peak. It's simple to control with any MCU and makes a low-parts-
count
> controller.
>
> Regards,
> Don
>

Hi there everyone.

There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking
without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right
and frankly, I came to agree that saying.

So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is
correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low side
MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead
TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.

Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty
DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,
etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to
run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead IRFZ44
and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow
forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back EMF
is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life
goes on.

Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything
performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was
heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey, "Life's
a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".

Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is
there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of
matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not learn
through my mistakes?

There are so many projects available on the net which involves
driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How
does mine differs so much from others?

Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even
some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.

Regards.
Hi,

Hey your are not along. Most of us learned in the way your are going through. Learning electronics is not so easy as? the people think. Sometime you have to learned front mistakes. Nobody like it but that's is the only? way to learn alone.

across each I was going to give you an advice with your project if you one to try it again. If I were you I add one diode 1N4002mosfet. On the top mosfet install a diode with the cathode or the band of the the diode to the drain and the anode to the? source. On the bottom one the diode band should be on the source and the anode to ground. What you are doing is bypass the kick back from the motor when you open the mosfet. Because the mosfet you are using is 60 volts 50 amps. No way the load is killing does mosfet.It is the voltage front the motor when you open the mosfet.

Good luck

rosarite

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...
Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 9:35 am
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Hi there everyone.

There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking

without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right

and frankly, I came to agree that saying.

So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is

correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low side

MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead

TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.

Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty

DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,

etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to

run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead IRFZ44

and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow

forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back EMF

is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life

goes on.

Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything

performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was

heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey, "Life's

a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".

Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is

there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of

matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not learn

through my mistakes?

There are so many projects available on the net which involves

driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How

does mine differs so much from others?

Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even

some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.

Regards.


HM,

Can you post the schematic?

- Don