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Fate of PIC32 If Microchip buys Atmel MPU business.

Started by Dan Ash October 6, 2008
Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if
Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the
PIC32.  I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the
family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may
stop.  This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs
and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year.  Freescale sells
Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure
Microchip will take on the same burden.  I guess we will all see how
it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer.
On Oct 6, 8:51 am, Dan Ash <dan_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > PIC32. I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > stop. This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. Freescale sells > Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > Microchip will take on the same burden. I guess we will all see how > it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer.
Same for AVR32. One or two of ARM32, PIC32 and AVR32 will disappear.
> > Microchip will take on the same burden. =A0I guess we will all see how > > it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer. > > Same for AVR32. One or two of ARM32, PIC32 and AVR32 will disappear.
it will probably be AVR32, and it will probably not disappear but rather be divested. my reason for making this speculation: avr32 is an offshoot of the asic division, as I understand it. It exists to support customers who need 32-bit performance but don't want to pay ARM or MIPS royalties. PIC32's MIPS and Atmel's ARM are both COTS cores.
On Oct 6, 11:43=A0am, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 8:51 am, Dan Ash <dan_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > > Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > > PIC32. =A0I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > > family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > > stop. =A0This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > > and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. =A0Freescale sells > > Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > > Microchip will take on the same burden. =A0I guess we will all see how > > it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer. > > Same for AVR32. One or two of ARM32, PIC32 and AVR32 will disappear.
Which is better and should live on? :-) Right now, PIC, dsPIC, and PIC32 use very different architectures. I'd certainly like to see the 8-bit AVR core replace the PIC core in low-end PICs. For 32-bit I'd prefer ARM32 because its not a Harvard architecture and its also easier to find an Ada compiler for it. - Britt - Britt
Dan Ash wrote:
> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > PIC32. I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > stop. This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. Freescale sells > Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > Microchip will take on the same burden. I guess we will all see how > it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer.
This is a longer term question. Once silicon is fully released, is it rare to pull the plug. Unless it is so niche, that they cannot afford a small run, or so bug ridden, that it is not really released.... What does happen, is the next generation development goes onto the 'back burner', and the device's larger customers are quietly steered onto something else. Then, the price climbs, to the threshold of pain for other customers.... :) All that might take 2-3 years. I did note that NXP have just released a 125MHz ARM9. Nice looking peripherals. Atmel also floated an ARM9 FLASH, but quietly said no more, so looks like that needed a respin. NXP and ST may benefit from the uncertainty. -jg
"Dan Ash" <dan_ash@sbcglobal.net> skrev i meddelandet 
news:b7fece0b-2472-49c3-9805-c1fe29e21a5a@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > PIC32. I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > stop. This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. Freescale sells > Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > Microchip will take on the same burden. I guess we will all see how > it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer.
Why stop at PIC32, would it not make sense to divest the PIC12,PIC16,PIC18 and DSPIC as well :-) -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
> Same for AVR32. One or two of ARM32, PIC32 and AVR32 will disappear.
> it will probably be AVR32, and it will probably not disappear but > rather be divested. my reason for making this speculation: avr32 is an > offshoot of the asic division, as I understand it.
No, the AT91 ARM product were developed by the ASIC division, (located in France) as were the peripherals. AVR32 was developed in Norway by the Microcontroller division. Both use peripherals developed by the ASIC division. Microchip wants to divest the ASIC division. I'll let people judge for themselves if this is smart.
> It exists tosupport customers who need 32-bit performance > but don't want to pay ARM or MIPS royalties.
It exists for various reasons. I have seen Atmel stating that it feels that it can sometimes meet customers requirements better if it can optimize the core. - Better power consumption - Higher performance - Better debugging experience.
> PIC32's MIPS and Atmel's ARM are both COTS cores.
So why would you want to have two cores which you cannot play around with. One should be enough. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet 
news:48ea5a43@clear.net.nz...
> Dan Ash wrote: >> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if >> Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the >> PIC32. I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the >> family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may >> stop. This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs >> and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. Freescale sells >> Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure >> Microchip will take on the same burden. I guess we will all see how >> it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer. > > This is a longer term question. Once silicon is fully released, is it > rare to pull the plug. Unless it is so niche, that they cannot afford > a small run, or so bug ridden, that it is not really released.... > > What does happen, is the next generation development goes onto the 'back > burner', and the device's larger customers are quietly steered onto > something else. Then, the price climbs, to the threshold of pain for > other customers.... :) > All that might take 2-3 years. > > I did note that NXP have just released a 125MHz ARM9. Nice looking > peripherals. > > Atmel also floated an ARM9 FLASH, but quietly said no more, > so looks like that needed a respin. >
Yes, there was some issues, which should be fixed by now. You can order AT91SAM9XE-EK kits, At least in early september they were in stock without any significant leadtime. Production volume is coming out before end of the year. 200 MHz ARM926EJ-S with plenty of peripherals. Basically it is a SAM9260 with 128/256/512 kB (128 bit) Flash and 16/32/32 kB SRAM. The core has 16 kB of Instruction Cache and 8 kB of Datacache. Will run the internal bus at 100 MHz and can access SDRAM at 100 MHz. Think NXP needs to rewrite their ads about fastest ARM flash MCU.
> NXP and ST may benefit from the uncertainty. > > -jg >
-- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:

> "Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet > news:48ea5a43@clear.net.nz... > > Dan Ash wrote: > >> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > >> Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > >> PIC32. I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > >> family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > >> stop. This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > >> and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. Freescale sells > >> Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > >> Microchip will take on the same burden. I guess we will all see how > >> it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer. > > > > This is a longer term question. Once silicon is fully released, is it > > rare to pull the plug. Unless it is so niche, that they cannot afford > > a small run, or so bug ridden, that it is not really released.... > > > > What does happen, is the next generation development goes onto the 'back > > burner', and the device's larger customers are quietly steered onto > > something else. Then, the price climbs, to the threshold of pain for > > other customers.... :) > > All that might take 2-3 years. > > > > I did note that NXP have just released a 125MHz ARM9. Nice looking > > peripherals. > > > > Atmel also floated an ARM9 FLASH, but quietly said no more, > > so looks like that needed a respin. > > > > Yes, there was some issues, which should be fixed by now. > > You can order AT91SAM9XE-EK kits, > At least in early september they were in stock without any significant > leadtime. > Production volume is coming out before end of the year. > > 200 MHz ARM926EJ-S with plenty of peripherals. > Basically it is a SAM9260 with 128/256/512 kB (128 bit) Flash > and 16/32/32 kB SRAM. > The core has 16 kB of Instruction Cache and 8 kB of Datacache.
and the FLASH memory Bandwidth is ??
> Will run the internal bus at 100 MHz and can access SDRAM at 100 MHz.
So can the peripherals Clock at 100MHz, or 200MHz ? (eg timers, SPI ...)
> Think NXP needs to rewrite their ads about fastest ARM flash MCU.
Perhaps their peripherals are faster ;) -jg
On 7 Oct, 22:14, "Ulf Samuelsson" <u...@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:
> "Jim Granville" <no.s...@designtools.maps.co.nz> skrev i meddelandetnews:=
48ea5a43@clear.net.nz...
> > > > > Dan Ash wrote: > >> Not that anyone can do anything but guess what might happen, but if > >> Microchip buys Atmel's MPU business, what is the prognosis for the > >> PIC32. =A0I bought some PIC32 tools and invested time learning the > >> family, and now it may go away or new variant design activity may > >> stop. =A0This is because Atmel has a popular ARM based family of MPUs > >> and the MIPS based PIC32 has only been out a year. =A0Freescale sells > >> Coldfire, PowerPC, and ARM based processors, but I am not sure > >> Microchip will take on the same burden. =A0I guess we will all see how > >> it plays out and whether Atmel will accept their offer. > > > This is a longer term question. Once silicon is fully released, is it > > rare to pull the plug. Unless it is so niche, that they cannot afford > > a small run, or so bug ridden, that it is not really released.... > > > What does happen, is the next generation development goes onto the 'bac=
k
> > burner', and the device's larger customers are quietly steered onto > > something else. Then, the price climbs, to the threshold of pain for > > other customers.... :) > > All that might take 2-3 years. > > > I did note that NXP have just released a 125MHz ARM9. Nice looking > > peripherals. > > > Atmel also floated an ARM9 FLASH, but quietly said no more, > > so looks like that needed a respin. > > Yes, there was some issues, which should be fixed by now. > > You can order AT91SAM9XE-EK kits, > At least in early september they were in stock without any significant > leadtime. > Production volume is coming out before end of the year. > > 200 MHz ARM926EJ-S with plenty of peripherals. > Basically it is a SAM9260 with 128/256/512 kB (128 bit) Flash > and 16/32/32 kB SRAM. > The core has 16 kB of Instruction Cache and 8 kB of Datacache. > Will run the internal bus at 100 MHz and can access SDRAM at 100 MHz. > > Think NXP needs to rewrite their ads about fastest ARM flash MCU.
It looks like Atmel has copied NXP's wide flash interface. 8-) Leon