CPU recommendations?

Hi All,

I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
job.

I'd like to use a CPU which:

supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
around cycles
has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
has uCos|| ported to it
a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
optionally, can support C++

I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
this stage

I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
meeting the above requirements?

Thanks,
Fred

<fredbasset1000@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-b4b1c239863d@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
>
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++
>
> I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> this stage
>
> I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> meeting the above requirements?

You might check out the ST STM8.  The source-level debugger works pretty 
well.  Cosmic has a free compiler for up to 16K, and as best I can tell from 
the license, there are no restrictions on using the free compiler for a 
commercial purpose.  The full tools that will produce a larger FLASH image 
are something around $1800.

The necessary debugging pod is only about 100 Euros.

However, I do work with high production volumes, and ST's pricing is 
attractive.  If you're doing work with annual volumes of less that 10K or 
so, I'm not sure the STM8 would be the right choice.  For low volumes, 
naturally piece-cost is less important.

Not sure about uCos.

If you're not easily able to find info or a sales rep, post again and we can 
get into direct contact.

The Lizard 

fredbasset1000@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
> 
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
> 
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++
> 
> I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> this stage
> 
> I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> meeting the above requirements?

I have been successful with the Atmel AVR under similar circumstances.

Avr-gcc is very good. Equally supported on Windows and FreeBSD. Linux 
guys can take clues from the FreeBSD port as to the good patches such as 
the one adding binary constant support (specify values in binary).

The AVR JTAG ICE mkII is pricy at $300 but the ECROS ICE Cube at $40 is 
99.99% as good so long as you select a CPU that it supports. Is best to 
buy an Atmel AVR-ISP for about $40 as ISP is needed to enable JTAG but 
once JTAG is enabled its all you need for uploading code and debugging.

64k is a pretty big code space for a "simple" project. Keep it down to 
32k CPUs and the AVR Dragon (from Atmel) is $50. Supports debugWire, 
JTAG, and ISP (in-system programming in Atmel-speak). But once again one 
must ensure in advance that the CPU is supported by the Dragon. Only way 
to get the Dragon list is download and install AVR Studio, then go to 
the online help file for Dragon.

The Dragon will program parts larger than 32k via ISP, it just won't debug.

<fredbasset1000@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-b4b1c239863d@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
>
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++

C++? Noooooooo!!!!! ;)

The venerable H8 family might fit all your needs, except for the C++/64k 
bloat thing... The KPIT/GNU toolchain is free, as is the HEW environment 
from Renesas, and the flash programming utilities...

I mean, really: C++ on embedded? Seriously? By all means write OO code, but 
C++ is not a serious contender. It's just b0rked. On a desktop you can get 
away with it, but otherwise this emperor is nekkid.

Steve
--
http://www.fivetrees.com 

fredbasset1000@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
> 
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
> 
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++
> 
> I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> this stage
> 
> I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> meeting the above requirements?
> 
> Thanks,
> Fred

You have a slightly mixed up set of requirements here - it does not 
sound like you need anything more than a small 8-bit device, and 64k 
flash is probably at least four times overkill.  If you don't have any 
particular reason (such as familiarity) to choose anything else, then go 
for an Atmel AVR.  If you want to use uCOS, your easiest starting point 
is to find an evaluation board with example code for uCOS - there should 
be lots to choose from.  Go for avr-gcc for development tools (from 
<http://winavr.sourceforge.net/>) along with AVR Studio.  C++ support is 
limited to the language only (i.e., you can work with classes, 
templates, etc., but there is no library support for exceptions, or 
run-time interfaces, and no class libraries).

On Mar 23, 8:51=A0pm, fredbasset1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs. =A0Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient. =A0I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
>
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++
>
> I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> this stage
>
> I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> meeting the above requirements?
>
> Thanks,
> Fred

Look at STM32.

Has all of those periperals.
Free compiler upto 32kb from IAR (and with Thumb2 instructions you get
quite a lot of code in that) - next step is the 256kb baseline
edition.
A number of uC/OSII ports available for download.
IAR has embedded C++ support
STM32 with IAR / J-Link provides trace information using SWO.
J-Trace module for bigger external trace memory available for less
then 1000EUR (cheapest Cortex trace you will ever find).
STM32 can go to the lower speeds/powers if needed

Kit of STM32 and JLink for around 200EUR - look around.

I do not quite understand your idea of looking for a free compiler,
but then using an expensive RTOS.. seems like you should build on
concrete by using good tools and start to use the silicon vendor
supplied librarys/freeRTOS and decide to buy an RTOS.

On Mar 23, 2:02=A0pm, "Jujitsu Lizard" <jujitsu.liz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <fredbasset1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-b4b1c239863d@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> > simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> > PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs. =A0Sampling at about 10Hz should b=
e
> > sufficient. =A0I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> > job.
>
> > I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> > supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> > around cycles
> > has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> > has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> > has uCos|| ported to it
> > a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> > optionally, can support C++
>
> > I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> > this stage
>
> > I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> > meeting the above requirements?
>
> You might check out the ST STM8. =A0The source-level debugger works prett=
y
> well. =A0Cosmic has a free compiler for up to 16K, and as best I can tell=
 from
> the license, there are no restrictions on using the free compiler for a
> commercial purpose. =A0The full tools that will produce a larger FLASH im=
age
> are something around $1800.
>
> The necessary debugging pod is only about 100 Euros.
>
> However, I do work with high production volumes, and ST's pricing is
> attractive. =A0If you're doing work with annual volumes of less that 10K =
or
> so, I'm not sure the STM8 would be the right choice. =A0For low volumes,
> naturally piece-cost is less important.
>
> Not sure about uCos.
>
> If you're not easily able to find info or a sales rep, post again and we =
can
> get into direct contact.
>
> The Lizard

I can only second this recommendation by adding, go to the STM8S.
There have been a couple new ones just announced, meaning ST has
definitely still some focus on these devices. There was another
recommendation to use STM32, well these two families share
peripherals, so if you start out with the STM8S and need to upgrade
later, the STM32 will provide a very easy upgrade. Both are supported
by Raisonance and if you are using this particular compiler, switching
between the two is a piece of cake.
What Lizard did not mention, if you start out and need 16/32k flash or
less of programming space, the compiler for the STM8S (16k) as well as
the one for STM32 (32k) from Raisonance are free.
For further reading:
http://www.mcu-raisonance.com/~stm8st7-c-compiler__microcontrollers__tool~t=
ool__T018:4cpm5flha55r.html
Features of the new STM8S devices
http://www.mcu-related.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&view=3Darticle&id=
=3D55:stm8s105-and-stm8s207&catid=3D35:cortex-m3&Itemid=3D18

An Schwob

On Mar 24, 3:19=A0pm, An Schwob in USA <schwo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2:02=A0pm, "Jujitsu Lizard" <jujitsu.liz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <fredbasset1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-b4b1c239863d@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com..=
.
>
> > > Hi All,
>
> > > I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> > > simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> > > PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs. =A0Sampling at about 10Hz should=
 be
> > > sufficient. =A0I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> > > job.
>
> > > I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> > > supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> > > around cycles
> > > has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> > > has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> > > has uCos|| ported to it
> > > a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good=
)
> > > optionally, can support C++
>
> > > I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> > > this stage
>
> > > I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> > > meeting the above requirements?
>
> > You might check out the ST STM8. =A0The source-level debugger works pre=
tty
> > well. =A0Cosmic has a free compiler for up to 16K, and as best I can te=
ll from
> > the license, there are no restrictions on using the free compiler for a
> > commercial purpose. =A0The full tools that will produce a larger FLASH =
image
> > are something around $1800.
>
> > The necessary debugging pod is only about 100 Euros.
>
> > However, I do work with high production volumes, and ST's pricing is
> > attractive. =A0If you're doing work with annual volumes of less that 10=
K or
> > so, I'm not sure the STM8 would be the right choice. =A0For low volumes=
,
> > naturally piece-cost is less important.
>
> > Not sure about uCos.
>
> > If you're not easily able to find info or a sales rep, post again and w=
e can
> > get into direct contact.
>
> > The Lizard
>
> I can only second this recommendation by adding, go to the STM8S.
> There have been a couple new ones just announced, meaning ST has
> definitely still some focus on these devices. There was another
> recommendation to use STM32, well these two families share
> peripherals, so if you start out with the STM8S and need to upgrade
> later, the STM32 will provide a very easy upgrade. Both are supported
> by Raisonance and if you are using this particular compiler, switching
> between the two is a piece of cake.
> What Lizard did not mention, if you start out and need 16/32k flash or
> less of programming space, the compiler for the STM8S (16k) as well as
> the one for STM32 (32k) from Raisonance are free.
> For further reading:http://www.mcu-raisonance.com/~stm8st7-c-compiler__mi=
crocontrollers__...
> Features of the new STM8S deviceshttp://www.mcu-related.com/index.php?opt=
ion=3Dcom_content&view=3Darticle&...
>
> An Schwob

pray tell me where are the uc/OSII ports for STM8 or Raisonance ?

fredbasset1000@gmail.com wrote in news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-
b4b1c239863d@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com:

> Hi All,
> 
> I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs.  Sampling at about 10Hz should be
> sufficient.  I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> job.
> 
> I'd like to use a CPU which:
> 
> supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> around cycles
> has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> has uCos|| ported to it
> a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> optionally, can support C++
> 
> I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> this stage
> 
> I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> meeting the above requirements?
> 
> Thanks,
> Fred

I've used both PIC and Atmel AVR with the free GNU C tool chain.  Both 
companies provide a decent development environment that wraps the 
compiler.  PIC does charge too much for an 'advanced' version of the 
compiler, but you do not need it.

Microchip (PIC) has an online store selling directly in small quantities 
at good prices.  I find this quite valuable.

Very Important:  Excellent on-line community support. 
PIC - http://www.microchip.com/forums/Default.aspx?
AVR - http://www.avrfreaks.net

I repeat, both are excellent!  Unless you are sitting in a university or 
a professinal engineering company, you may have trouble with getting 
help with other products.

I cannot see much value to C++ in this context.  Without dynamic memory 
allocation, C++ is just bloatware.

Joe

 

On Mar 29, 3:48=A0pm, joemcder <jm1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> fredbasset1...@gmail.com wrote in news:df23d9fc-e93f-44eb-90cd-
> b4b1c2398...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > I'm starting a new embedded control project soon, it looks fairly
> > simple so far, read some analog and digital inputs and provide some
> > PRM, digital & serial RS485 outputs. =A0Sampling at about 10Hz should b=
e
> > sufficient. =A0I'm thinking a lower speed 16 or 32bit CPU will do the
> > job.
>
> > I'd like to use a CPU which:
>
> > supports source level debugging & fast code download for rapid turn
> > around cycles
> > has onboard Flash for of at least 64K
> > has plenty of eval. boards and ref. designs available
> > has uCos|| ported to it
> > a free compiler and tools (I would pay if the tools where really good)
> > optionally, can support C++
>
> > I'm wide open to using a PIC, ARM, Freescale, Atmel chip, anything at
> > this stage
>
> > I know this question is fairly general but can anyone recommend a CPU
> > meeting the above requirements?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Fred
>
> I've used both PIC and Atmel AVR with the free GNU C tool chain. =A0Both
> companies provide a decent development environment that wraps the
> compiler. =A0PIC does charge too much for an 'advanced' version of the
> compiler, but you do not need it.
>
> Microchip (PIC) has an online store selling directly in small quantities
> at good prices. =A0I find this quite valuable.
>
> Very Important: =A0Excellent on-line community support.
> PIC -http://www.microchip.com/forums/Default.aspx?
> AVR -http://www.avrfreaks.net
>
> I repeat, both are excellent! =A0Unless you are sitting in a university o=
r
> a professinal engineering company, you may have trouble with getting
> help with other products.
>
> I cannot see much value to C++ in this context. =A0Without dynamic memory
> allocation, C++ is just bloatware.
>
> Joe

Interesting suggestion - again no uC/OSII and no C++.

Gosh i wish you guys luck with your projects, given the specifications
required you come up with every solution that does not meet spec.

BTW PIC and AVR librarys and available code in abundace but it truly
truly poor and crap.  Good luck if you want to move away to a
different 'controller.