Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined in a board. They don't have to do any extra work or different processes than single design. Why do they insist on this extra charge? Some of them will waive the fee after negotiation, but this is just unnecessary hassle. I know this is very common in the industry, but why do they care about number of customer designs? For identical board area and spec, 4 designs cost 30% more and 8 designs cost 100% more in setup. Are different versions of the same board consider as different designs?
PCB multiple designs surcharge
Started by ●February 7, 2010
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:53:58 -0800 (PST), the renowned linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined >in a board. They don't have to do any extra work or different >processes than single design. Why do they insist on this extra >charge? Some of them will waive the fee after negotiation, but this >is just unnecessary hassle. > >I know this is very common in the industry, but why do they care about >number of customer designs? For identical board area and spec, 4 >designs cost 30% more and 8 designs cost 100% more in setup. Are >different versions of the same board consider as different designs?1. Because they can 2. Because they want to discourage people from trying to combine designs. 3. Because manually combined designs probably cost them a lot of support time due to duplicated tools or other anomalies. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 8, 10:53=A0am, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:> Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined > in a board. =A0They don't have to do any extra work or different > processes than single design. =A0Why do they insist on this extra > charge? =A0If you give them single-panel gerbers and drill info, I am sure there is no adder. Simple solution: if you do not like to pay for someone else's time, do it yourself and save $$$ :) -jg
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 7, 2:46=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Feb 8, 10:53=A0am, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > > > Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined > > in a board. =A0They don't have to do any extra work or different > > processes than single design. =A0Why do they insist on this extra > > charge? =A0 > > =A0If you give them single-panel gerbers and drill info, > I am sure there is no adder.Yes. I am sending a single set of files with matching pads and drills in all my designs. I use the same set of data for all the designs. I have 4 projects with 8 versions. I have to declare it as 1 board, or 4 designs (30% more) or 8 designs (100% more).> > =A0Simple solution: if you do not like to pay for someone else's time, > do it yourself and save $$$ :)Yes, I am doing all the work but pay extra for it.> > -jg
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 7, 2:12=A0pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:> On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:53:58 -0800 (PST), the renowned linnix > > <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined > >in a board. =A0They don't have to do any extra work or different > >processes than single design. =A0Why do they insist on this extra > >charge? =A0Some of them will waive the fee after negotiation, but this > >is just unnecessary hassle. > > >I know this is very common in the industry, but why do they care about > >number of customer designs? =A0For identical board area and spec, 4 > >designs cost 30% more and 8 designs cost 100% more in setup. =A0Are > >different versions of the same board consider as different designs? > > 1. Because they can > > 2. Because they want to discourage people from trying to combine > =A0 =A0designs.It usually just encourage people to find another fab house.> > 3. Because manually combined designs probably cost them a lot > =A0 =A0of support time due to duplicated tools or other anomalies.I am not asking them to do that. I am combining them myself with matching set of tools. If anomalies come up, I would be willing to pay more. I should not have to pay more because there are separate functional areas on the board.
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 8, 12:14=A0pm, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:> On Feb 7, 2:46=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 8, 10:53=A0am, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > > > > Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined > > > in a board. =A0They don't have to do any extra work or different > > > processes than single design. =A0Why do they insist on this extra > > > charge? =A0 > > > =A0If you give them single-panel gerbers and drill info, > > I am sure there is no adder. > > Yes. =A0I am sending a single set of files with matching pads and drills > in all my designs. =A0I use the same set of data for all the designs. =A0=I> have 4 projects with 8 versions. =A0I have to declare it as 1 board, or > 4 designs (30% more) or 8 designs (100% more).Then I would bleat as well. Tell them it is one panel, and one project. They really should not care what paths the copper happens to take!!. They might charge for more complex routing, but that's usually a separate charge. -jg
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 7, 4:00=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Feb 8, 12:14=A0pm, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 7, 2:46=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Feb 8, 10:53=A0am, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > > > > > Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combin=ed> > > > in a board. =A0They don't have to do any extra work or different > > > > processes than single design. =A0Why do they insist on this extra > > > > charge? =A0 > > > > =A0If you give them single-panel gerbers and drill info, > > > I am sure there is no adder. > > > Yes. =A0I am sending a single set of files with matching pads and drill=s> > in all my designs. =A0I use the same set of data for all the designs. ==A0I> > have 4 projects with 8 versions. =A0I have to declare it as 1 board, or > > 4 designs (30% more) or 8 designs (100% more). > > Then I would bleat as well. > > Tell them it is one panel, and one project.In one case, I paid and submitted files. They saw different functional blocks and wanted to charge more. I told them to cancel the order and they back off. Another fab's web says that they are trying to protect jobs by charging more and forcing designers to submit multiple orders. By killing us (designers), I don't know how they can create more jobs for them.> > They really should not care what paths the copper happens to take!!. > > They might charge for more complex routing, but that's usually a > separate charge. > > -jg
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wibbled on Monday 08 February 2010 00:18> In one case, I paid and submitted files. They saw different > functional blocks and wanted to charge more. I told them to cancel > the order and they back off. Another fab's web says that they are > trying to protect jobs by charging more and forcing designers to > submit multiple orders. By killing us (designers), I don't know how > they can create more jobs for them. >So does that mean if you created one board with a snap line (where the functional parts *could* (but needn't) be separated, they would charge more? Sounds very subjective - and a rather prehistoric and misguided charging approach. Reminds me of the RIAA/MPAA. Surely the cost should be based on simple quantifiable entities like: layers, holes, number of holes sizes (tools), area (of input panel), finishes (gold, soldermask, silk) and suchlike. Who cares how many notional designs are on the board? -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
On Feb 7, 4:28=A0pm, Tim Watts <t...@dionic.net> wrote:> linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> > =A0 wibbled on Monday 08 February 2010 00:18 > > > In one case, I paid and submitted files. =A0They saw different > > functional blocks and wanted to charge more. =A0I told them to cancel > > the order and they back off. =A0Another fab's web says that they are > > trying to protect jobs by charging more and forcing designers to > > submit multiple orders. =A0By killing us (designers), I don't know how > > they can create more jobs for them. > > So does that mean if you created one board with a snap line (where the > functional parts *could* (but needn't) be separated, they would charge mo=re?> Sounds very subjective - and a rather prehistoric and misguided charging > approach. Reminds me of the RIAA/MPAA.Yes, some say so explicitly, with or without snap line. Usually, I can negotiate it out, but I am tried of dealing with such nonsense. Am I the only one having these experiences? By the way, I never have design issues with combined designs, except for money issues.> > Surely the cost should be based on simple quantifiable entities like: > layers, holes, number of holes sizes (tools), area (of input panel), > finishes (gold, soldermask, silk) and suchlike. > > Who cares how many notional designs are on the board? > > -- > Tim Watts > > Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.
Reply by ●February 7, 20102010-02-07
"linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message news:ba62882b-0f49-46ff-a9d3-af11ca0d2cbd@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...> Some PCB fab houses charge extra for having multiple designs combined > in a board. They don't have to do any extra work or different > processes than single design. Why do they insist on this extra > charge? Some of them will waive the fee after negotiation, but this > is just unnecessary hassle. >Check out BatchPCB (an offshoot of SparkFun Electronics) - they even combine multiple designs from different customers: "You submit your PCB design, we add your design to the batch of orders. When the batch is big enough (usually about 1 week), the batch is set off for manufacture. 10 days later, the individual boards are received by us. We then split the orders up and mail your order to you." http://www.batchpcb.com We haven't tried them ourselves but would be interested to hear of anybody's experience. -- Chris Burrows CFB Software Armaide: An ARM Development System for Pascal Programmers http://www.armaide.com
