PC104 on a mini race car

Hey guys, first time posting here. I'm new to PC104. At uni we are building
a mini electric race car and the team decided to use a PC104 to run
everything including data acquisition (don't know why they opted for a
ground up system when there were packages available for noobs)

We are using two brush less DC motors integrated with 2 inverters (DC to 3
phase AC) and IGBT switch. The controller is: 
Advantech PC/104
Model: PCM-3380F-M0A2E
Processor: Celeron M 600MHz

Lots of sensors such as wheel speed, motor speed/torque, temperature,
current, voltage.

My question here is that can we install a windows operating system such as
XP in the PC/104 and and use that as our interface?

Also, what software is needed for programming the board once the OS is
installed? So far we've a stack of about 6 boards for motors, DAQ,
inverters etc. 

The DAQ board has a 1GB card, is it possible to save data from sensors on
the car to the 1GB card and transmit it simultaneiusly to a remote pc using
Xbee?

Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and have
very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased, its
just that we have to make it work!

Cheers

	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

On Aug 29, 9:11=A0pm, "Darth" <theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and hav=
e
> very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased, its
> just that we have to make it work!

I would argue that until you know what you are actually doing, it
doesn't matter HOW much crap you have bought; you can't say you have
"all parts" until you know "of what?". I do agree that catalogs are
very exciting, but that's no excuse.

You can run XP on the machine, of course. Whether you want to or not
depends on the realtime requirements and how much work the acquisition
card offloads. You should benchmark it, since you won't get a useful
answer out of the vendors.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:56:34 -0700 (PDT), larwe
<zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Aug 29, 9:11&#4294967295;pm, "Darth" <theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and have
>> very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased, its
>> just that we have to make it work!
>
>I would argue that until you know what you are actually doing, it
>doesn't matter HOW much crap you have bought; you can't say you have
>"all parts" until you know "of what?". I do agree that catalogs are
>very exciting, but that's no excuse.
><snip>

Um.  They may know it is "all parts" because (1) they are
running short of time and cannot buy anything more without
running completely out of time, and (2) they have no more
money to buy anything else.  Which may define "all parts" for
all solutions in the set -- possibly a null set.  ;)

Jon

In article <EO6dnQdX-MndmObRnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com>, 
theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com says...
> 
> Hey guys, first time posting here. I'm new to PC104. At uni we are building
> a mini electric race car and the team decided to use a PC104 to run
> everything including data acquisition (don't know why they opted for a
> ground up system when there were packages available for noobs)
> 
> We are using two brush less DC motors integrated with 2 inverters (DC to 3
> phase AC) and IGBT switch. The controller is: 
> Advantech PC/104
> Model: PCM-3380F-M0A2E
> Processor: Celeron M 600MHz
> 
> Lots of sensors such as wheel speed, motor speed/torque, temperature,
> current, voltage.
> 
> My question here is that can we install a windows operating system such as
> XP in the PC/104 and and use that as our interface?
> 
> Also, what software is needed for programming the board once the OS is
> installed? So far we've a stack of about 6 boards for motors, DAQ,
> inverters etc. 
> 
> The DAQ board has a 1GB card, is it possible to save data from sensors on
> the car to the 1GB card and transmit it simultaneiusly to a remote pc using
> Xbee?
> 
> Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and have
> very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased, its
> just that we have to make it work!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 	   
> 					
> ---------------------------------------		
> Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

Using Windows for a control OS. You are nuts here. You need to put 
excess consideration to safety and reliability. Windows is not that OS.
Windows also does not offer a predictable latency and schedulling model 
that you need for real time control like motor control and safety 
monitoring.


You should really consider designing your own round robbin main 
executive dispatch loop to run something like this. 

-- 
--

Michael Karas
Carousel Design Solutions
http://www.carousel-design.com

Darth wrote:

> Hey guys, first time posting here. I'm new to PC104. At uni we are
> building a mini electric race car and the team decided to use a PC104 to
> run everything including data acquisition (don't know why they opted for a
> ground up system when there were packages available for noobs)
> 
> We are using two brush less DC motors integrated with 2 inverters (DC to 3
> phase AC) and IGBT switch. The controller is:
> Advantech PC/104
> Model: PCM-3380F-M0A2E
> Processor: Celeron M 600MHz
> 
> Lots of sensors such as wheel speed, motor speed/torque, temperature,
> current, voltage.
> 
> My question here is that can we install a windows operating system such as
> XP in the PC/104 and and use that as our interface?
> 
> Also, what software is needed for programming the board once the OS is
> installed? So far we've a stack of about 6 boards for motors, DAQ,
> inverters etc.
> 
> The DAQ board has a 1GB card, is it possible to save data from sensors on
> the car to the 1GB card and transmit it simultaneiusly to a remote pc
> using Xbee?
> 
> Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and have
> very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased, its
> just that we have to make it work!
> 
> Cheers

I know you are still learning, but it is time to get real here. At the 
present time it is sounding like the other members of your "team" have the 
made the hardware choices and you are the software guy who will carry the 
can for failure if it doesn't work. Weren't you in on the organisation and 
selection of the hardware? Did the team do a proper evaluation prior to 
selection of the hardware or did they just browse from a catalogue for bits 
that could just plug together. Were the "noob" kits adequate or did they 
have short-comings? If I were the tutor marking your efforts, I would want 
to see some evidence that the choices you made had reasonable grounding 
logic behind them.

Forget running Windows (of any flavour) as that will most definitely be so 
non-real time. Then sit down and really have a think and sketch out (in a 
mind-mapping sort of way) what you really do need in the system (function-
wise). This diagram should include the user interactions with the system. 
Until you have done this you cannot be sure you have all the assets 
required. The system structure will start to show itself to you and you can 
assign the resources properly to each part. Test the adequacy of the design 
at all the steps to getting the best design structure.

Then answer the safety questions. Like, if the processor is controlling the 
motor speed, what have you in place preventing the vehicle running away at 
an uncontrollable speed? I am sure you will start seeing more such questions 
too. Re-arrange your structure to accommodate the ansers to the safety 
questions and test adequacy of the design again.

Consider that you may need to put in more than one processor (personally I 
usually configure a minimum of one processor per actuator). The processing 
load and safety aspects may be too much for one processor.

Up-front design organisation is a more valuable commodity than even the most 
expensive super-fast processor. Quite often my designs are achieved with a 
collection of small, inexpensive, processors and peripherals. Those projects 
that have a GUI interface will tend to be done such that the GUI is on a 
Thin Client and has no way of impacting the normal safe operation of the 
rest of the system.

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

>Darth wrote:
>
>> Hey guys, first time posting here. I'm new to PC104. At uni we are
>> building a mini electric race car and the team decided to use a PC104
to
>> run everything including data acquisition (don't know why they opted for
a
>> ground up system when there were packages available for noobs)
>> 
>> We are using two brush less DC motors integrated with 2 inverters (DC to
3
>> phase AC) and IGBT switch. The controller is:
>> Advantech PC/104
>> Model: PCM-3380F-M0A2E
>> Processor: Celeron M 600MHz
>> 
>> Lots of sensors such as wheel speed, motor speed/torque, temperature,
>> current, voltage.
>> 
>> My question here is that can we install a windows operating system such
as
>> XP in the PC/104 and and use that as our interface?
>> 
>> Also, what software is needed for programming the board once the OS is
>> installed? So far we've a stack of about 6 boards for motors, DAQ,
>> inverters etc.
>> 
>> The DAQ board has a 1GB card, is it possible to save data from sensors
on
>> the car to the 1GB card and transmit it simultaneiusly to a remote pc
>> using Xbee?
>> 
>> Appreciate any advice/suggestions as we are running short of time and
have
>> very limited knowledge of electronics. All parts have been purchased,
its
>> just that we have to make it work!
>> 
>> Cheers
>
>I know you are still learning, but it is time to get real here. At the 
>present time it is sounding like the other members of your "team" have the

>made the hardware choices and you are the software guy who will carry the

>can for failure if it doesn't work. Weren't you in on the organisation and

>selection of the hardware? Did the team do a proper evaluation prior to 
>selection of the hardware or did they just browse from a catalogue for
bits 
>that could just plug together. Were the "noob" kits adequate or did they 
>have short-comings? If I were the tutor marking your efforts, I would want

>to see some evidence that the choices you made had reasonable grounding 
>logic behind them.
>
>Forget running Windows (of any flavour) as that will most definitely be so

>non-real time. Then sit down and really have a think and sketch out (in a

>mind-mapping sort of way) what you really do need in the system
(function-
>wise). This diagram should include the user interactions with the system.

>Until you have done this you cannot be sure you have all the assets 
>required. The system structure will start to show itself to you and you
can 
>assign the resources properly to each part. Test the adequacy of the
design 
>at all the steps to getting the best design structure.
>
>Then answer the safety questions. Like, if the processor is controlling
the 
>motor speed, what have you in place preventing the vehicle running away at

>an uncontrollable speed? I am sure you will start seeing more such
questions 
>too. Re-arrange your structure to accommodate the ansers to the safety 
>questions and test adequacy of the design again.
>
>Consider that you may need to put in more than one processor (personally I

>usually configure a minimum of one processor per actuator). The processing

>load and safety aspects may be too much for one processor.
>
>Up-front design organisation is a more valuable commodity than even the
most 
>expensive super-fast processor. Quite often my designs are achieved with a

>collection of small, inexpensive, processors and peripherals. Those
projects 
>that have a GUI interface will tend to be done such that the GUI is on a 
>Thin Client and has no way of impacting the normal safe operation of the 
>rest of the system.
>
>-- 
>********************************************************************
>Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
>Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
>Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
>Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
>Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
>********************************************************************
>
>Thanks for your reply guys. I was actually helping out with another part
of the car and have finished so thought I should lend a hand to the
electrical side as they are struggling. I should also point out that we are
all mechanical and automotive students and apart from me, everyone else in
the team are working in this project as their final year thesis, i.e.
suspension, steering, chassis etc. The parts were ordered at the start of
the year by the person in charge of the electrical stuff and we are over
the budget atm as batteries were over $12,000. Honestly, not sure how/why
they decided to take this route.
This is most of the parts:
*40Ah, 3.7V Battery Cell (lots)
*PC104 Board
*PC104 PWM
*Voltage Transducer
*Current Transducer
*Power Supply PC104
*IGBT
*Resister
*High Power Wire
*Copper cable lug
*Hall Effect Throttle Box

So far, we've managed to get one motor spinning using matlab on a pc
(simulink I think). Ideally, we would want both motors spinning while
applying throttle (using a potentiometer). 

Can someone kindly tell me in the simplest form how we could achieve this?
What I mean is how to make use of the PC104. Do we program it, or install a
OS and put the program in there? What programming software to use? How to
integrate the sensors? what is real-time?

I hope I'm making sense. Please correct me if something is out of context.

Once again, really appreciate any help.
	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

Also, would this particular motor controller make things any easier:

http://curtisinstruments.com
ndex.cfm?fuseaction=ProductsGrid.ACMotorControllers

Model 1230
	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

In comp.arch.embedded,
Darth <theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> wrote:

> This is most of the parts:
> *40Ah, 3.7V Battery Cell (lots)

Do you have a proper charger and battery management in place for these cells?

-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

Hummingbirds never remember the words to songs.

>In comp.arch.embedded,
>Darth <theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is most of the parts:
>> *40Ah, 3.7V Battery Cell (lots)
>
>Do you have a proper charger and battery management in place for these
cells?
>
>-- 
>Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by
mail)
>
>Hummingbirds never remember the words to songs.
>
Charging the batteries has been taken care of but I'm not sure about the
battery management you are referring to? Is that when its operating in the
car? The electrical system summary shows the power supply connected to the
controller unit.	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

On 30 Ago, 03:11, "Darth" <theforce_vader@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com>
wrote:

> My question here is that can we install a windows operating system such as
> XP in the PC/104 and and use that as our interface?

forget win if you want to control the car using the PC/104, ou need
something real-time.
If you don't want to reinvent the wheel and have an "easy" dev
environmnet try Linux RTAI (for example).

> Also, what software is needed for programming the board once the OS is
> installed? So far we've a stack of about 6 boards for motors, DAQ,
> inverters etc.

If you use Linux RTAI you can interface with Matlab/Simulink (and I
think Scilab/Scicos too) and do all the programming there.

Bye Jack