ARM development - KEIL (MDK) vs. IAR (EW)

On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
> Hi,
>
> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
> matter of personal taste.
>
> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
> the KEIL package, I think.
>

If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of 
continuing using it.

> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
> IAR.
>
> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
> with KEIL.
>

ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil 
won't support.

> KEIL: + ARM compiler.
>
> As to the other tools, I tried CodeSourcey and it's interesting
> although I am not sure about their JTAG support and the whole
> 'Sprites' approach.

I expect that most debuggers work in a similar way, using some sort of 
"proxy" program that is specific to the hardware interface.  They might 
hide it better, but it's a common way to modularise the debugging system 
and let it support a range of hardware debuggers.  Tools like Lauterbach 
that connect by a network are sometimes a different matter.

> Also CodeSorcery has been bought recently by
> Mentor. They will certainly start pushing their own products
> (Nucleus, etc.) through this channel now.
>

I haven't noticed any change in CodeSourcery since Mentor bought them, 
but perhaps it will over time.  But the core tools - Eclipse for the 
IDE, gdb debugger, and gcc for the toolchain - are all open source, and 
safe from too much Mentor-specific influence.

> Anyway thanks again for your answers.
> --------------------------------------- Posted through
> http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

>
>Which ARM compiler are you talking about ?
>
>ARM PLC sells Keil, are you talking about Kiel ?
>
>Are you suggesting ARM RVDS ??
>
>The question was about IAR and Keil, are you also adding a third 
>compiler to this mix ?
>
>hamilton
>

Hi hamilton,

As far as I know there is only one "ARM compiler" - armcc. It is the same
compiler in the KEIL MDK package and in the ARM RVDS package. The only
difference is that the KEIL package has some flags disabled. It doesn't let
you compile for the ARM application processors Cortex A8/9 for example.

	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

On 4/3/2011 9:42 AM, alemannia wrote:
>>
>> Which ARM compiler are you talking about ?
>>
>> ARM PLC sells Keil, are you talking about Kiel ?
>>
>> Are you suggesting ARM RVDS ??
>>
>> The question was about IAR and Keil, are you also adding a third
>> compiler to this mix ?
>>
>> hamilton
>>
>
> Hi hamilton,
>
> As far as I know there is only one "ARM compiler" - armcc. It is the same


LOL, and the rest of us knows that how ??

So far the discussion has mentioned 5 ARM (processor) compilers.

So, the war (flame) begun has !!


hamilton

> compiler in the KEIL MDK package and in the ARM RVDS package. The only
> difference is that the KEIL package has some flags disabled. It doesn't let
> you compile for the ARM application processors Cortex A8/9 for example.
>
> 	
> 					
> ---------------------------------------		
> Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

"hamilton" <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote in message 
news:ina2qc$8sr$1@dont-email.me...
> On 4/3/2011 2:37 AM, tim.... wrote:
>> "alemannia"<Martin@n_o_s_p_a_m.Zarzycki.de>  wrote in message
>> news:FKCdnZcJRYd6JArQnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have browsed the web for recent experience reports on KEIL MDK and IAR
>>> Embedded Workbench. The posts that I found are quite outdated, so I
>>> thought
>>> I start a new thread here.
>>>
>>> I will need to buy one of those products sometime soon and I am curious
>>> about your experience with one OR/AND the other. What do you like about
>>> it,
>>> what are the weak points? I am completely aware that this questions is a
>>> little bit like "iPhone" vs. "Android" but I find it hard to decide and
>>> any
>>> suggestions will help.
>>
>> I worked for a company that used the IAR for a while and the optimisation 
>> of
>> the code that it produced was absolutely rubbish compared to the ARM
>> compiler (that every previous company had used).
>
> Which ARM compiler are you talking about ?

The one sold by ARM.

>
> ARM PLC sells Keil, are you talking about Kiel ?
>
> Are you suggesting ARM RVDS ??

Isn't its current name Realview?

> The question was about IAR and Keil, are you also adding a third compiler 
> to this mix ?


Yep.  I have no experience of the Kiel so I can't do a comparison.

I can only compare IAR with ARM and TIME there is no comparison

tim

"David Brown" <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote in message 
news:mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net...
> On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>> matter of personal taste.
>>
>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>
>
> If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of 
> continuing using it.
>
>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>> IAR.
>>
>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>> with KEIL.
>>
>
> ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil won't 
> support.

Yes I'd forgotten that.

Is the compiler "branded" Kiel the same as the one that ARM used to sell 
using their own branding?

tim

On 03/04/11 20:46, tim.... wrote:
> "David Brown"<david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>  wrote in message
> news:mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net...
>> On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>>> matter of personal taste.
>>>
>>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>>
>>
>> If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of
>> continuing using it.
>>
>>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>>> IAR.
>>>
>>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>>> with KEIL.
>>>
>>
>> ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil won't
>> support.
>
> Yes I'd forgotten that.
>
> Is the compiler "branded" Kiel the same as the one that ARM used to sell
> using their own branding?
>

As far as I know, when Keil was a separate company, it had its own ARM 
compiler completely independent of ARM's compiler.  When ARM bought 
them, I presume that they standardised on one and merged the good bits 
from the other - but that's just a guess.

In message <mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net>, David Brown
<david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> writes
>On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>> matter of personal taste.
>>
>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>
>
>If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of
>continuing using it.
>
>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>> IAR.
>>
>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>> with KEIL.
>>
>
>ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil
>won't support.

The Keil compiler will not support any cores... only MCU. The RDVS
supports al the cores.  That is the differentiation between the RVDS and
Keil.



-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message <8vrtknFkd6U1@mid.individual.net>, tim....
<tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>"David Brown" <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote in message
>news:mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net...
>> On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>>> matter of personal taste.
>>>
>>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>>
>>
>> If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of
>> continuing using it.
>>
>>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>>> IAR.
>>>
>>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>>> with KEIL.
>>>
>>
>> ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil won't
>> support.
>
>Yes I'd forgotten that.
>
>Is the compiler "branded" Kiel the same as the one that ARM used to sell
>using their own branding?

The KEil compiler is a restricted ARM RVDS
-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message <jq-dnTicWbKtVAXQnZ2dnUVZ8sydnZ2d@lyse.net>, David Brown
<david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> writes
>On 03/04/11 20:46, tim.... wrote:
>> "David Brown"<david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>  wrote in message
>> news:mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net...
>>> On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>>>> matter of personal taste.
>>>>
>>>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>>>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>>>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of
>>> continuing using it.
>>>
>>>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>>>> IAR.
>>>>
>>>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>>>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>>>> with KEIL.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil won't
>>> support.
>>
>> Yes I'd forgotten that.
>>
>> Is the compiler "branded" Kiel the same as the one that ARM used to sell
>> using their own branding?
>>
>
>As far as I know, when Keil was a separate company, it had its own ARM
>compiler completely independent of ARM's compiler.  When ARM bought
>them, I presume that they standardised on one and merged the good bits
>from the other - but that's just a guess.

And accurate,.

Keil had their own (very good ) ARM7 C compiler.

When they were acquired by arm the dropped their own compiler and put a
cut down version of the ARM RVDS into Keil uVision.

-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> writes:

> In message <mfSdnYHo6qOaDgXQnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@lyse.net>, David Brown
> <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> writes
>>On 03/04/11 14:01, alemannia wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks for your answers so far. I think at the end it's really a
>>> matter of personal taste.
>>>
>>> I have been working with the ARM compiler (stand alone with
>>> Lauterbach JTAG) for quite some time and that's why I will opt for
>>> the KEIL package, I think.
>>>
>>
>>If you are used to ARM/Keil, then that's a big argument in favour of
>>continuing using it.
>>
>>> I just wanted to check, if there is a killer argument in favor of
>>> IAR.
>>>
>>> IAR: + USB stick based licence management. The license is not linked
>>> to your PC. + Support for Cortex A8, which will never be the case
>>> with KEIL.
>>>
>>
>>ARM owns Keil - I can't imagine there would be an ARM core that Keil
>>won't support.
>
> The Keil compiler will not support any cores... only MCU.

Hi Chris, I suspect you are using your own private definitions of words
again... :).

If it supports a particular MCU with a cortex-M3 core, say, then it
supports the CM3 "core", doesn't it?


> The RDVS
> supports al the cores.  That is the differentiation between the RVDS and
> Keil.

-- 

John Devereux