Forums

32-bit RISC now cheaper than 8-bit

Started by Anonymous Remailer (austria) April 14, 2012
The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's 
cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all 
that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is 
that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's 
DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to 
purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented 
it.

Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?

Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented > it. > > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
I've looked. I've thought. Until someone comes up with a development environment as user-friendly as AVR Studio, I'll stick with AVR.
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:12:17 +0200 (CEST), "Anonymous Remailer
(austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:

> >The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's >cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all >that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is >that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's >DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to >purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented >it.
Serial wire debug (SWD) is available on ST's STM32-series and TI's Stellaris as well. It's supported on (later) Segger J-Links, Rowley's CrossConnect and (using Rowley's adapter) the Amontec JTAGkey and the Olimex ARM OCD adapters. Probably a bunch of others (chips and programmers both) that I'm not aware of.
>Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
I've pretty much been driving ST's CM3 chips, lately. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented > it. > > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet? >
I've used NXP M0s both on their own and as a supervisor processor with an ST Cortex M4. (The supervisor runs all the time and wakes up the big processor when any real work has to be done - it also controls remote re-flashng of the main processor). From a C code point of view the M0 looks just the same (almost) as the M3 so they make a nice pair with the same tools being used on both. NXP's peripherals are a bit different from ST so you need to get used to that. We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max production run of 1000. The M0+ parts coming soon from Freescale look nice too. Michael Kellett
On Saturday, April 14, 2012 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented > it. > > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
One LPC11C14 product in production, another on the way. Very Good Stuff. Super-inexpensive development tools of really high quality (Expresso boards w/SWD, CodeRed). Three thumbs up. Much less painful than AVR ! Enjoy Best Regards, Dave
"MK" <mk@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:8MOdnfIZ6dKzGxfSnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@bt.com...
> On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's >> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all >> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is >> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's >> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need
to
>> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented >> it. >> >> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet? >> > We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of > speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like > enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max > production run of 1000. >
Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0? You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so much more speed?
On 15/04/12 17:29, Anonymous wrote:
> "MK"<mk@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > news:8MOdnfIZ6dKzGxfSnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@bt.com... >> On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >>> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's >>> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all >>> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is >>> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's >>> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need > to >>> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented >>> it. >>> >>> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet? >>> >> We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of >> speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like >> enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max >> production run of 1000. >> > > Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0? > You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so > much more speed? >
When you use a small micro, you have to limit your coding style somewhat. Code that uses multiple pointers or indirect functions will compile on a decent C compiler even for brain-dead processors like the PIC (assuming 8-bit PICs here), but it will run like a lame sloth. When you have a processor with a single linear address space and solid pointer support, such as ARM, MIPS, PPC, m68K or msp430 (even though it is only 16-bit), you are much freer in the structures you can use in the program. If an array of structs is appropriate, use it. If callbacks are the best way to organise the code, use them. But on a PIC they would be hideously slow, so you find other ways to code your program.
On 15/04/2012 16:29, Anonymous wrote:
> "MK"<mk@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > news:8MOdnfIZ6dKzGxfSnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@bt.com... >> On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >>> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's >>> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all >>> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is >>> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's >>> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need > to >>> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented >>> it. >>> >>> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet? >>> >> We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of >> speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like >> enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max >> production run of 1000. >> > > Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0? > You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so > much more speed? >
We replaced a very tiny PIC with an LPC1111 and one of the real time savers was getting real general purpose timers with 32 bit registers. The other big advantage was being able to code entirely in C, and as others have mentioned, being able to use the full power of standard C rather than a small subset. Michael Kellett
On 2012-04-14, Anonymous Remailer (austria) <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:
> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
Did one project using LPC1114 over a year ago, had no problems with it. AVR is a big pain because of the separate memory spaces, M0 is just as good as the "big" ARM chips with 32-bit addresses etc. No more 8-bit mcu's! -jm

"Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> wrote in 
message news:5efaa54b0d886ade31a02a007a62edbe@remailer.privacy.at...
> > The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented > it. > > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet? >
We've moved to LPC11xx and LPC12xx too, however the 8KB SRAM is too small sometimes...