Forums

ARM7 complete development tools?

Started by Jack May 17, 2004
On 18 May 2004 10:24:56 -0700, dreamguy007@hotmail.com (Jack) wrote:

>hi. thanks for the replies. >to be more specific, we need more than 2 UART, 1 SPI, built-in >mmc/compact flash controller would be nice, an lcd controller is >optional, and later we need to embed GUI and rtos in it.
About the >2 UART I am not sure, but be just bought a GP32 (at Lik Sang). It is a game console based on standard components including a Samsung ARM920 accompanied by 512KB Flash/8MB RAM + MMC card and 320x240x16 TFT display (actually it is an 240x320x16). It is about 150USD, __and__ you may attach it with JTAG ! Search for GP32 and you'll find a lot on programming it. --- 42Bastian Do not email to bastian42@yahoo.com, it's a spam-only account :-) Use <same-name>@epost.de instead !

"Jack" <dreamguy007@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:b7c82826.0405180924.54d4a6d3@posting.google.com...
> hi. thanks for the replies. > to be more specific, we need more than 2 UART, 1 SPI, built-in > mmc/compact flash controller would be nice, an lcd controller is > optional, and later we need to embed GUI and rtos in it. > > the problem so far i found is that there are emulators that only work > with certain compiler, dev board and certain bsp sample codes. > if there is any complete tools that can work together out of the box > would be nice to save some time. so, we are looking a dev board with > sample codes, schematics and drivers on it, with recommended > compiler+emulator, and even better if they (or someone) have embedded > linux on it. maybe asking too much, but any combination that people > have experienced that work would be great. about the cost, i will make > a presentation of possible options, so it's really open right now. > > so, i'm also interested to know what kind of tools other people have > used in the past to complete a project. >
The AT91RM9200 will do what you want but it is an ARM920T. - Much Nicer for Linux The part does not have the LCD controller, but the forthcoming AT91SAM9261 has . If you want as much as possible from one vendor then Green Hills is one choice. Multi 2000 Compiler (There is a version that can compile Linux as well in the works) If you need a real time operating system with GUI support. then the Green Hills Integrity will work on the Atmel dev kit. I would go with a Lauterbach emulator though. The Atmel Dev board has Linux 2.4.19 ported. There is a lower cost Cogent board CSB337. Don't know if Integrity support this board. Both boards have a graphic controller. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This is a personal view which may or may not be share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB
>Hello. >We are in the beginning of development of new product with ARM7 >Can someone tell us what options we have for development tools? We >need a list of available dev toolset, such as >compiler+emulator+(RTOS)+(dev. board)+(processor) that work with each >other. also, perhaps some comments on those tools. > >Thanks!! > >Jack >Hi :)
I recently purchased an Embedded Artists LPC2478 board and the Code_Red ECLIPSE and GNU based integrated toolset I am still awaiting the hardware to arrive but have registered the software license and am quite happy with what I see so far. This alternative to KEIL which is astronomically priced only cost me around $1400 for the LPC2478 board the JTAG probe and the IDE. It is supposedly possible to compile a free version of some of this but I am highly experienced and could not get one working. I suggest buying an already integrated tool kit. --------------------------------------- Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
In message <V-ydnVQ4wpE0YJfRnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>, achadya
<jfloder@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> writes
>>Hello. >>We are in the beginning of development of new product with ARM7 >>Can someone tell us what options we have for development tools? We >>need a list of available dev toolset, such as >>compiler+emulator+(RTOS)+(dev. board)+(processor) that work with each >>other. also, perhaps some comments on those tools. >> >>Thanks!! >> >>Jack >>Hi :) >I recently purchased an Embedded Artists LPC2478 board and the Code_Red >ECLIPSE and GNU based integrated toolset I am still awaiting the hardware >to arrive but have registered the software license and am quite happy with >what I see so far. >This alternative to KEIL which is astronomically priced
No the Keil is quite reasonably priced for what you get. It used to be that Accountants knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Now it is more true of programmers. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Chris H wrote:
> In message <V-ydnVQ4wpE0YJfRnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>, achadya > <jfloder@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> writes >>> Hello. >>> We are in the beginning of development of new product with ARM7 >>> Can someone tell us what options we have for development tools? We >>> need a list of available dev toolset, such as >>> compiler+emulator+(RTOS)+(dev. board)+(processor) that work with each >>> other. also, perhaps some comments on those tools. >>> >>> Thanks!! >>> >>> Jack >>> Hi :) >> I recently purchased an Embedded Artists LPC2478 board and the Code_Red >> ECLIPSE and GNU based integrated toolset I am still awaiting the hardware >> to arrive but have registered the software license and am quite happy with >> what I see so far. >> This alternative to KEIL which is astronomically priced > > No the Keil is quite reasonably priced for what you get. It used to be > that Accountants knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. > Now it is more true of programmers. >
As happens so often here, you've misunderstood what the poster / customer wants, as well as basic economics. It could well be that Keil is reasonably priced for what you get. But the customer does not want that. He is happy with what he has got from Code Red - how could Keil possibly be a better choice or better value /for him/ when it costs much more? If I want to make a board with a few blinking lights and a few keys, I'll pick an AVR. I don't care if there's a Cortex M3 device that offers far more MIPs per mW, or more KB per $. If the cheaper device does the job, then that's the best value for money. You regularly like to point out that the big commercial toolchains like Keil and IAR are much "better" than cheaper tools (and especially anything gcc related). It may be that they are. You also like to tell people that they will save you money through saved time, or by letting you use smaller or slower target chips. It may be that this is sometimes the case. But the fact remains that these tools are very expensive, and represent a significant cash investment with a pay-off only over the longer term. The "best tool for the job" is not necessarily the same thing as "the best tool".
"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
news:L9WdnYosxYpXE5bRnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d@lyse.net...
> Chris H wrote: >> In message <V-ydnVQ4wpE0YJfRnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>, achadya >> <jfloder@n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> writes >>>> Hello. >>>> We are in the beginning of development of new product with ARM7 >>>> Can someone tell us what options we have for development tools? We >>>> need a list of available dev toolset, such as >>>> compiler+emulator+(RTOS)+(dev. board)+(processor) that work with each >>>> other. also, perhaps some comments on those tools. >>>> >>>> Thanks!! >>>> >>>> Jack >>>> Hi :) >>> I recently purchased an Embedded Artists LPC2478 board and the Code_Red >>> ECLIPSE and GNU based integrated toolset I am still awaiting the >>> hardware >>> to arrive but have registered the software license and am quite happy >>> with >>> what I see so far. >>> This alternative to KEIL which is astronomically priced >> >> No the Keil is quite reasonably priced for what you get. It used to be >> that Accountants knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. >> Now it is more true of programmers. >> > > As happens so often here, you've misunderstood what the poster / customer > wants, as well as basic economics. > > It could well be that Keil is reasonably priced for what you get. But the > customer does not want that. He is happy with what he has got from Code > Red - how could Keil possibly be a better choice or better value /for him/ > when it costs much more? > > If I want to make a board with a few blinking lights and a few keys, I'll > pick an AVR. I don't care if there's a Cortex M3 device that offers far > more MIPs per mW, or more KB per $. If the cheaper device does the job, > then that's the best value for money. > > You regularly like to point out that the big commercial toolchains like > Keil and IAR are much "better" than cheaper tools (and especially anything > gcc related). It may be that they are. You also like to tell people that > they will save you money through saved time, or by letting you use smaller > or slower target chips. It may be that this is sometimes the case. But > the fact remains that these tools are very expensive, and represent a > significant cash investment with a pay-off only over the longer term. The > "best tool for the job" is not necessarily the same thing as "the best > tool". > >
Unfortunately the OP did not tell us what he wanted to do. I have just launched a customer on to a Keil development route for &#2013266083;17.83 (ST-Link kit) which comes with USB debugger/programmer hardware, Keil 32k limited tools version, IAR linited version and Atollic Lite tools. For my customer the 32k Keil tool set is fine and the cost seems pretty down to earth to me ! I haven't compared Atollic with Code Red but I think it's a GNU package with no code size or use time limit. (BTW the ST-LInk package looks to me to be by far the best value "get started with ARM" offer at the moment - I don't know if the hardware is useable with non ST chips.) So although he didn't quote evidence Chris is quite right - Keil is good value for what you get - free for up to 32k, about &#2013266083;1800 for 256k and about &#2013266083;3000 for unlimted. If the OP wants an RTOS and a dev board Keil do those too. I have no relationship with Keil other than as a (happy) customer. Now for the bee in my bonnet !!! Why do people buy development boards ? They either have no hardware (like the Silabs ones) so you need to make a board with your own stuff on to get your project going or they have loads of stuff on them (like the ST ones) but it's never what you want, so you need to make a board with your own stuff on to get your project going. Why not make a board with the processor and your own stuff on to get your project going - that way you get real hardware a damn sight sooner. Happy (rainy) Sunday afternoon. Michael Kellett
Hi Michael,

Michael Kellett wrote:
> Why do people buy development boards ? They either have no hardware > (like the Silabs ones) so you need to make a board with your own stuff on to > get your project going or they have loads of stuff on them (like the ST > ones) but it's never what you want, so you need to make a board with your > own stuff on to get your project going.
Yes! I simply cannot understand this huge waste of effort. You are *going* to design a board *anyway*. Do it and at least get started on the path to nailing down all the "gotchas" that *will* come up in the design. Years ago, I could *almost* understand the rationale that "it lets the programmers get started" (yet another self-delusion!). But, nowadays, you can write and debug *lots* of code without ever needing real hardware. For most projects, you don't even need to use the actual tools for the targeted platform for much (most?) of the code! Spend the time thinking about what the product actually has to do, formally describe/document that -- then start designing the software WHILE THE HARDWARE IS BEING DESIGNED/FABBED. It is *so* much more productive to have an "X0" version of the real prototype hardware WHEN YOU ACTUALLY NEED IT than to be farting around with something that does nothing more (in practical terms) than give you CPU, RAM and ROM (and some lame I/O). [and don't tell me you've got such bizzare I/O that you *have* to have a board to write any code! If that's the case, then, chances are, the "development board" doesn't have what you need; or, has something that you can *kludge* to work -- but you'll have to unkludge and fix once the *real* hardware comes along; or, you have an "insecurity" about stubbing code and backfilling later (in which case, you probably don't kknow what you want that code to *do*!)]
> Why not make a board with the > processor and your own stuff on to get your project going - that way you > get real hardware a damn sight sooner.
I think the problem lies in the fact that most projects don't know what their end goal is until some time in the *middle* of the development effort (*if* that soon!). And, they follow the "OhMiGosh! We'd better start writing code RIGHT AWAY or we'll never get done on time..." technique. Having *a* board gives them a false sense of accomplishment ("Look! My bubble sort is running on this board! See? Each time that red LED blinks, it's sorted the entire list!!") I have six designs in the mill at the present time. I'll have 95% (literally) of the code for them written and debugged before I'll need hardware for the last little bits. IME, developing with an early "need" for hardware usually means you haven't thought about how you are going to *formally* test/prove your design (unless you've invested a lot of resources into an equally smart test fixture and test protocol -- that can exercise all aspects of your code solely "from it's field interface") :-/ [I hope you aren't designing the next generation ABS!]
> Happy (rainy) Sunday afternoon.
Maybe where *you* are -- 108F here today :-/
On 2010-06-06, Michael Kellett <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Now for the bee in my bonnet !!! > Why do people buy development boards?
1) They allow you to run benchmark code to compare different processors. 2) They allow you to evaluate toolchains and other infrastructure. 3) They allow software development work to start long before the custom product boards are ready. 4) They're free: you often don't buy them -- you borrow them from the CPU distributor.
> They either have no hardware (like the Silabs ones) so you need to > make a board with your own stuff on to get your project going or they > have loads of stuff on them (like the ST ones) but it's never what > you want, so you need to make a board with your own stuff on to get > your project going. Why not make a board with the processor and your > own stuff on to get your project going - that way you get real > hardware a damn sight sooner.
How do you decide which processor to use without doing any testing or benchmarking? Are you going to lay out 3-4 different boards in order to run some benchmarks? What do the software people do while you're designing and laying out your board? -- Grant
>Hi Michael, > >Michael Kellett wrote: >> Why do people buy development boards ? They either have no hardware >> (like the Silabs ones) so you need to make a board with your own stuff
on to
>> get your project going or they have loads of stuff on them (like the ST
>> ones) but it's never what you want, so you need to make a board with
your
>> own stuff on to get your project going. > >Yes! I simply cannot understand this huge waste of effort. >You are *going* to design a board *anyway*. Do it and at least >get started on the path to nailing down all the "gotchas" that >*will* come up in the design. > >Years ago, I could *almost* understand the rationale that "it >lets the programmers get started" (yet another self-delusion!). >But, nowadays, you can write and debug *lots* of code without >ever needing real hardware. For most projects, you don't even >need to use the actual tools for the targeted platform for >much (most?) of the code! >
I find them useful from the POV that you can use them as a sanity check. I.E. Have I installed the tool-suite correctly or is it my hardware that has a problem? Once the 1st project is done, the usefulness falls away as you have reasonable confidence that the h/w is OK. --------------------------------------- Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:10:18 +0000 (UTC), the renowned Grant Edwards
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 2010-06-06, Michael Kellett <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > >> Now for the bee in my bonnet !!! >> Why do people buy development boards? > >1) They allow you to run benchmark code to compare different > processors. > >2) They allow you to evaluate toolchains and other infrastructure. > >3) They allow software development work to start long before the > custom product boards are ready. > >4) They're free: you often don't buy them -- you borrow them from the > CPU distributor.
If it's a one-off, test fixture etc. then the develoment board could be the end product. No need to send stuff out for assembly, debug, etc.
>> They either have no hardware (like the Silabs ones) so you need to >> make a board with your own stuff on to get your project going or they >> have loads of stuff on them (like the ST ones) but it's never what >> you want, so you need to make a board with your own stuff on to get >> your project going. Why not make a board with the processor and your >> own stuff on to get your project going - that way you get real >> hardware a damn sight sooner. > >How do you decide which processor to use without doing any testing or >benchmarking? Are you going to lay out 3-4 different boards in order >to run some benchmarks?
You can find out if there are any major gotchas with the toolchain and hardware relatively fast. Variations on processors you're already using are another matter.
>What do the software people do while you're designing and laying out >your board?
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com