Rotary encoder interfacing to a micro

Hello,

I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
or similar be used first ? I have thought about using a 'best of three'
approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
if all three results are the same.

TIA

Colin

"Colin MacDougall" <colin |D0T| macdougall@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
>a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
>how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
>run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
>the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
>to double count. 

If is not possible to track an incremental encoder while only checking its
state on one edge of one channel. You can not tell if the edge was
generated by the encoder advancing through a whole cycle or just reversing
slightly and advancing through the edge again. 

For a low speed application a simple way of tracking is to sample the
channels in a regular timer interrupt. The current state of the channels
combined with their state on the previous sample gives 16 cases. Of these 2
* 4 indicate movement in either direction, 4 indicate no movement and the
remaining 4 should be impossible. This scheme is pretty simple to code. 

On Sunday, in article
     <xHDgc.9$6T5.8@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
     colin|D0T|macdougall@btinternet.com "Colin MacDougall"
     wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
>a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
>how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
>run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
>the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
>to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
>reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
>interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
>a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
>Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
>hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
>or similar be used first ? I have thought about using a 'best of three'
>approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
>if all three results are the same.

Both approaches sound good as you seem to be using a encoder that is a
switch that will have switch bounce so using the timer to do several
successive readings to check for several identical readings before
using it would be good. This of course depends on how much processing
time you have available.

I assume this an 8 bit o/p encoder, so if adding external chips you
might consider putting some form of debouncer chip to alleviate
your software overhead if that is important. A typical one to use
could be the Maxim MAX6818, which also has internal pull-up resistors.

-- 
Paul Carpenter		| paul@pcserv.demon.co.uk
<http://www.pcserv.demon.co.uk/>        Main Site
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>              GNU H8 & mailing list info.
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/>             For those web sites you hate.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:55:34 +0100, "Colin MacDougall" <colin |D0T|
macdougall@btinternet.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:

> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
> a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
> how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
> run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
> the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
> to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
> reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
> interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
> a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
> Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
> hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
> or similar be used first ? I have thought about using a 'best of three'
> approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
> if all three results are the same.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Colin

As others have already said, to get true quadrature decoding (speed
and direction) you need to look at least at both edges of one pulse.
A lot depends on the speed with which the encoder pulse train comes.

About 10 years ago I did a project for a special type of printer.  The
pin feed paper was driven by an AC motor and tracked by an encoder,
approximately 4000 quadrature edges per second.  A step motor had to
be controlled by a state machine to synchronize to the paper in
various complicated ways.

We did this with an 8051 running at 12 MHz.  The quadrature inputs
were connected each connected to one input of an exclusive-or gate,
the other input to each exclusive-or gate was connected to a separate
port pin, and the outputs of the two gates were connected to the two
external interrupt lines of the chip.

When one phase changed state, it generated the corresponding
interrupt.  The ISR read the input a few times to make sure it was
stable.  Then, based on the direction of the change and the state of
the other phase, it generated an up or down count to the position
counter.  Finally it toggled the output port pin driving the other
input to the exclusive-or gate to clear the interrupt input until that
phase changed state again.

Again as others have pointed out, if you need high speed encoder
tracking, there are dedicated chips.  US Digital and Agilent (formerly
Hewlett Packard) are some sources.

-- 
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html

In comp.arch.embedded, "Colin MacDougall" <colin |D0T|
macdougall@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
>a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
>how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
>run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
>the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
>to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
>reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
>interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
>a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
>Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
>hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
>or similar be used first ? 

   If there's some the micro can't devote a few extra cycles to
debouncing, then you should perhaps add extra hardware (or look into
raising the clock speed!), but a good software-only debounce works
fine for me.

>I have thought about using a 'best of three'
>approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
>if all three results are the same.

   I do something similar. I've gotten a mechanical encoder to work
quite reliably, with switches directly into the microcontroller port
pins, with the chip's internal pullups enabled (no external resistors
or capacitors). I read the two lines inside a once-every-1-mS timer
interrupt, and read it each time for ten times through (giving an
'actual switch value' every 10mS). Since the switch goes to ground and
the internal pullup goes to VCC, the switch 'on' is read as a zero.  I
initialize a buffer to all 1's and do an 'and' of each reading with
the buffer so that if a bit value is zero (switch on) during any of
those reads, I presume the switch is on (and all the other 1 readings
were due to a scratchy switch - if the switch contacts are nowhere
near each other, then ALL readings of it will be 1, correctly
indicating switch off). At the end of the tenth reading I pass this
off as The Encoder Value, then reinit the buffer and counter.
   I had looked at the switch output with a scope, both turning slowly
(to see any noise, as well as the rise time of the pullups) and
quickly (to see how fast the quadrature signals might reasonably
change at maximum hand-turning speed), so this code is the result of
Deliberate Research into Cheap Mechanical Rotary Encoders (these are
made by Panasonic, digikey part# P10859-ND).
   It's AVR 90S1200 assembly code, I wrote it on my own time, as
opposed to being paid to do it, so I have full rights to the code. If
someone asks nicely I coould put the whole thing online, I might even
add some [more!] documentation to it.

>TIA
>
>Colin

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:55:34 +0100, the renowned "Colin MacDougall"
<colin |D0T| macdougall@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
>a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
>how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
>run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
>the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
>to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
>reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
>interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
>a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
>Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
>hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
>or similar be used first ? I have thought about using a 'best of three'
>approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
>if all three results are the same.

Sample both inputs @~400Hz and debounce (store previous reading and
accepted reading) to get rid of the rated contact bounce (usually
something like 5msec). You can then determine up/down/ignore from the
transition of states. It's possible to get illegal states if the knob
is turned too fast, in which case you are best to just ignore. Note
also that one input may be guaranteed stable at the detent, wheras the
other may not. 

Here's the encoders we have, which are probably similar to the ones
you have: 

http://www.trexon.com/pdfs/trexon_encoder_revA.


Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

You should make a sampling rate that is fast enough for your encoder,
lets say 10ms or something like that, and when you detect that current
state is "0", and previous state was "1" then you have a negative edge.

Mickey

> I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
> a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 ). I can get it to work pretty much
> how I want - at the moment it causes a row of eight LED's to
> run back and forth. The problem I come across is that turning
> the shaft to the next detent position sometimes causes the LED's
> to double count. Looking at the output from the encoder on a scope
> reveals a bit of noise on the outputs. I have set my micro to
> interrupt on a falling edge of one of the phases and tried using
> a 7 mS software timer but this does not totally cure the problem.
> Does anyone have some tips for using these devices ? Is it usual to
> hook the outputs straight on to a micro or should a Schmitt trigger
> or similar be used first ? I have thought about using a 'best of three'
> approach where the phase is sampled three times and a decision made
> if all three results are the same.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:55:34 +0100, "Colin MacDougall" <colin |D0T|
macdougall@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am trying to connect an ALPS two phase mechanical encoder to
>a small micro ( AVR 90s2313 )....

A few months ago I posted about this schematic:

  http://www.tunelab-world.com/decode.gif

It converts quadrature into up-counts and down-counts.  If your micro
has two counters that each can count external edges, then the
quadrature position count can be calculated at any time by subtracting
the two counters.  The only problem becomes how to read often enough
to handle overflow and how to read two counters on the fly while one
or both of them may be counting.  I solved the second problem by
reading both counters twice and checking that the readings didn't
change.  For fast enough quadrate, this may need to be refined.


-Robert Scott
 Ypsilanti, Michigan
(Reply through this forum, not by direct e-mail to me, as automatic reply address is fake.)

That link appears to be dead.

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:02:53 -0400, the renowned Joe Legris
<jalegris@xympatico.ca> wrote:

>That link appears to be dead.

Sorry, it should be:

http://www.trexon.com/pdfs/trexon_encoder_revA.pdf


Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com