Forums

Atmel AVR CAN

Started by Don April 15, 2004
Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly
available.

I tried asking at AVRFreaks but the message got dropped. I then tried
searching & found that there wasn't a mention of it in the mail lists.
Spooky ;-)
Don wrote:

> Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly > available.
It seems that first samples are available, the german representative already has a working development board and wants to show it to us in a few days. But I think Atmel is much too late with this. They should have integrated CAN years ago.
On 14 Apr 2004 23:36:08 -0700, donatled@hotmail.com (Don) wrote:

>Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly >available. > >I tried asking at AVRFreaks but the message got dropped. I then tried >searching & found that there wasn't a mention of it in the mail lists. >Spooky ;-)
They are on the EBV stock list. http://www.ebv.com which is part of avnet. THe price was +- 6 Euro when I checked. Regards Anton Erasmus
"Erik Hermann" <erikhermann@amacando.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:c5ores$44vsh$1@ID-230069.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Don wrote: > > > Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly > > available. > > It seems that first samples are available, the german representative > already has a working development board and wants to show it to us in > a few days. > But I think Atmel is much too late with this.
That is not what I hear from my customers :-)
> They should have > integrated CAN years ago.
-- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This is a personal view which may or may not be share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> "Erik Hermann" <erikhermann@amacando.de> skrev i meddelandet >>Don wrote: >>>Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly >>>available. >> >>It seems that first samples are available, the german representative >>already has a working development board and wants to show it to us in >>a few days. >>But I think Atmel is much too late with this. > > > That is not what I hear from my customers :-)
You mean the customers that have not yet heard of the ST STR710FZ2 ? ;) $/10K FLASH RAM MHz Pins Serial -----------+------+-------+-----+------+--------+------------- AT90CAN128 $7.50 128K 4K 16MHz 64TQFP CAN STR710FZ2 $7.80 256K 64K 48MHz 144TQFP CAN/USB/HDLC STR712FR1 $nya 128K 16K 48MHz 64TQFP CAN No price seen yet on their 64pin/128K model, but if the price given on their web site for the 256K/144 pin model is right, that's a lot of bang to the buck. Refs: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040330/sftu033_2.html http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/10350.pdf http://www.st.com/stonline/products/support/micro/arm/str7_10.htm http://www.st.com/stonline/press/news/year2004/p1431p.htm There was some talk of a monolithic FlashARM from Atmel - is that close/canned/never really existed... ? -jg
Jim Granville wrote:

> You mean the customers that have not yet heard of the ST STR710FZ2 ? ;) > > $/10K FLASH RAM MHz Pins Serial > -----------+------+-------+-----+------+--------+------------- > AT90CAN128 $7.50 128K 4K 16MHz 64TQFP CAN > STR710FZ2 $7.80 256K 64K 48MHz 144TQFP CAN/USB/HDLC > STR712FR1 $nya 128K 16K 48MHz 64TQFP CAN
Well, I've used a lot of CAN Micros from Fujitsu years ago. They are very good and much cheaper than PIC's with CAN. We payed around 5 $ for a 16 Bit uC with 64K Flash and 4k RAM (+ 10 Bit ADC, etc). And you get the full featured C development environment for free. I really think that Atmel is much too late. Why use an expensive AVR if you can get a much cheaper/better HC08/HC12 Fujitsu FX or Mitsubishi M16 ? AVR's are good for hobbyists and small volumes, not for industrial and automotive applications.
> There was some talk of a monolithic FlashARM from Atmel > - is that close/canned/never really existed... ?
Why not use TI or Philips?
Jim Granville <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message news:<goGhc.2729$cY5.230696@news02.tsnz.net>...
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote: > > "Erik Hermann" <erikhermann@amacando.de> skrev i meddelandet > >>Don wrote: > >>>Has anyone heard when the CAN version of the Mega128 will be commonly > >>>available. > >> > >>It seems that first samples are available, the german representative > >>already has a working development board and wants to show it to us in > >>a few days. > >>But I think Atmel is much too late with this. > > > > > > That is not what I hear from my customers :-) > > You mean the customers that have not yet heard of the ST STR710FZ2 ? ;) > > $/10K FLASH RAM MHz Pins Serial > -----------+------+-------+-----+------+--------+------------- > AT90CAN128 $7.50 128K 4K 16MHz 64TQFP CAN > STR710FZ2 $7.80 256K 64K 48MHz 144TQFP CAN/USB/HDLC > STR712FR1 $nya 128K 16K 48MHz 64TQFP CAN > > No price seen yet on their 64pin/128K model, but if the price given > on their web site for the 256K/144 pin model is right, > that's a lot of bang to the buck. > > Refs: > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040330/sftu033_2.html > http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/10350.pdf > http://www.st.com/stonline/products/support/micro/arm/str7_10.htm > http://www.st.com/stonline/press/news/year2004/p1431p.htm > > There was some talk of a monolithic FlashARM from Atmel > - is that close/canned/never really existed... ? > > -jg
Hi Jim, the ST devices sound very nice. Readin their press release though tell me that they "plan to go into volume production in Q4 2004". In the past ST has not been know for announcing their products conservatively regarding schedule. So, there is already a device out there, running 60 MHz zero waitstates with 2 or 4 CAN interfaces from Philips (LPC2129 and 2194). To me it seems that this time ST is not even a fast follower, just a follower. There are however two things in the ST devices that are very nice, the USB interface and the 12-bit ADC. Cheers, Schwob
Schwob wrote:
<snip>
> Hi Jim, > > the ST devices sound very nice. Readin their press release though tell > me that they "plan to go into volume production in Q4 2004". In the > past ST has not been know for announcing their products conservatively > regarding schedule. So, there is already a device out there, running > 60 MHz zero waitstates with 2 or 4 CAN interfaces from Philips > (LPC2129 and 2194). To me it seems that this time ST is not even a > fast follower, just a follower. There are however two things in the ST > devices that are very nice, the USB interface and the 12-bit ADC.
Philips also say samples now, volume prodn Q4 04 in this SJA2020 press release http://www.philipssemiconductors.com/news/content/file_1015.html LPC2294 is also tagged only as 'samples available' I was wondering how the Philps SJA2020 & LPC2294 differ ? [Both 256KF, 4 CAN 144 pins ] Different die, or different marketing divisions within Philips ? Has anyone looked closely at these two ?
"Erik Hermann" <erikhermann@amacando.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:c6la9m$d9m2r$1@ID-230069.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Jim Granville wrote: > > > You mean the customers that have not yet heard of the ST STR710FZ2 ? ;) > > > > $/10K FLASH RAM MHz Pins Serial > > -----------+------+-------+-----+------+--------+------------- > > AT90CAN128 $7.50 128K 4K 16MHz 64TQFP CAN > > STR710FZ2 $7.80 256K 64K 48MHz 144TQFP CAN/USB/HDLC > > STR712FR1 $nya 128K 16K 48MHz 64TQFP CAN > > Well, I've used a lot of CAN Micros from Fujitsu years ago. > They are very good and much cheaper than PIC's with CAN. > We payed around 5 $ for a 16 Bit uC with 64K Flash and 4k RAM > (+ 10 Bit ADC, etc). > And you get the full featured C development environment for free. > > I really think that Atmel is much too late. > Why use an expensive AVR if you can get a much cheaper/better HC08/HC12 > Fujitsu FX or Mitsubishi M16 ? > AVR's are good for hobbyists and small volumes, not for industrial > and automotive applications.
Yes, and there seem to be about 500 million hobbyists since that is how many AVRs that has been delivered since 1987 :-)
> > There was some talk of a monolithic FlashARM from Atmel > > - is that close/canned/never really existed... ? > > Why not use TI or Philips?
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> "Erik Hermann" <erikhermann@amacando.de> skrev i meddelandet
<snip>
>>I really think that Atmel is much too late. >>Why use an expensive AVR if you can get a much cheaper/better HC08/HC12 >>Fujitsu FX or Mitsubishi M16 ? >>AVR's are good for hobbyists and small volumes, not for industrial >>and automotive applications. > > > Yes, and there seem to be about 500 million hobbyists since that is how > many AVRs that has been delivered since 1987 :-)
Glad the smiley is there, as clearly, few of those _actually_ went to hobbyists. I've looked for the details behind that 500M number, and it seems to be _total_ AVRs, and I cannot see a breakdown of ASIC / MASK / Custom / RAM Cores / SmartCard / and Flash (merchant uC) devices anywhere. Some simple comparisons : Motorola claim ~6 Billion HC05/HC08 devices shipped 1990-2003. Motorola are the biggest 8 bit uC vendor (by $), with ~24% of a ~$4.5B market. Microchip currently ship around 500M PICs every year. Their average selling price remains quite low, but most recent-release devices are FLASH. The 80C51-core market is well over $1B, with an annual run rate circa 1B Pcs/yr. [Even at 6Billion pcs [1990-2003], the HC05 does not claim to be the worlds most-shipped 8 bit core - that title goes to the 80C51] Even Zliog, have shipped 200M Pcs of TV remote control targeted uC. Atmel Brochures also make this claim : "...with three times the market share of its nearest competitor, Atmel is also the world's leading supplier of 8 bit Flash uC" There is also no mention of revenue, or units, so that also needs to be clarified. viz : The 8 bit uC #1 bagging rights are currently split between revenue and volume/units claimants. I would like to see the substance behind that marketdroid claim - seems a big call - but maybe the FLASH uC market is a much smaller piece of the total 8 bit uC market than many think. Given that Motorola, Microchip, Rensas, NEC, Philips, STm, are all much bigger players than Atmel, and ALL these companies are ramping their 8 bit FLASH uC, ( plus the tier 2 players, like Cygnal, Winbond, SST, ISSI, Zilog, Natsemi, TI (etc) all have active and ramping FLASH uC business) it does strain credibility. Atmel can add their Flash_AVR plus Flash_89C51 numbers together, but even with this, it's hard to imagine a 3:1 lead over #2. Hitachi were one of the first with FLASH uC, but I think they like to put their H8 series into the 16 bit basket, which would improve others 8 bit numbers. -jg