On 08/10/13 20:49, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2013-10-08, asdf <asdf@nospam.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:09:06 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote: >> >>> On 2013-10-08, Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> wrote: >>>> Cross posting to sci.electronics.design >>>> >>>> What linux distros do techies like? >>> >>> Genoo. >> >> Gentoo? >> IT techies maybe, but the average user (which could well be an >> electronics guru but not an IT one) would find annoying spending >> too much time tweaking it. > > Perhaps. I've find that in the long run, maintaining Gentoo systems > requires less time/effort than maintining RPM or .deb based distros. > It does, however, require a little more knowlege. > > But, it probably depends on what you want to do with the computer. If > all you want to do is stuff that the distribution bundler's have > already thought of and included software for, then I'd probably go > with Debian or Xubuntu. > > Any time you end up wanting to use software that's not available as > part of the basic distro, I've found that maintining rpm/deb based > systems tends to balloon into a large, frustrating job. >I used Gentoo a number of years ago. It was a fun experience, and certainly an educational one - I learned a lot about Linux from installing and tweaking it. But it was not an efficient experience - I spent much longer installing and compiling programs than using them. Perhaps I lack the self-discipline needed to use Gentoo properly - it was too much fun tweaking and re-emerging with different flags instead of just /using/ the system. The Gentoo project is also a source of excellent general Linux information and documentation (like Arch Linux). I can't quite see how using non-distro software would be easier with Gentoo, however. When you are dealing with source that is not in the repos, you download a tarball and give it the "./configure && make && make install" treatment. That applies for Debian, Redhat and Gentoo. With the more popular distros, you are more likely to find installation guides that match so that you don't need to figure out the details of particular dependency package names. And for non-source programs, it will almost certainly be easier with a distro based on one of the big systems rather than a more niche distro.
Cortex M3/M4 with bootloader ROM
Started by ●October 4, 2013
Reply by ●October 8, 20132013-10-08
Reply by ●October 8, 20132013-10-08
On 08/10/13 23:28, Roberto Waltman wrote:> Randy Yates wrote: >>> Do not be afraid to be root, just think before you hit enter.... >> >> Again, right-on. I get so tired of the "community" pushing sudo. Just >> "su -" and git 'er done. > > What's wrong with sudo -i -H ? ;) > (after modifying /etc/sudoers to *not* ask for passwords)Or "sudo su -", which is my personal favourite sudo command.
Reply by ●October 8, 20132013-10-08
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 09:41:15 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>I have an old P4 box that's running Kubuntu. The main thing I disliked > about Ubuntu when I used it last is that it doesn't play nicely with >the other children--if I set up disk partitions on cylinder boundaries >for other OSes, and tell it to use the existing partitions, it >nevertheless insists on futzing with the partition table to save a >quarter of a cylinder. I like computers that do as they're bloody well >told.I have tried many distros over the years and I have yet to find one that *doesn't* muck up the partition table even when you install on (and boot load from) already existing partitions. Often, after installation, non-Linux based partitioning software will no longer work on the disk. George
Reply by ●October 8, 20132013-10-08
On 10/8/2013 10:25 PM, George Neuner wrote:> On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 09:41:15 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> I have an old P4 box that's running Kubuntu. The main thing I disliked >> about Ubuntu when I used it last is that it doesn't play nicely with >> the other children--if I set up disk partitions on cylinder boundaries >> for other OSes, and tell it to use the existing partitions, it >> nevertheless insists on futzing with the partition table to save a >> quarter of a cylinder. I like computers that do as they're bloody well >> told. > > I have tried many distros over the years and I have yet to find one > that *doesn't* muck up the partition table even when you install on > (and boot load from) already existing partitions. Often, after > installation, non-Linux based partitioning software will no longer > work on the disk. > > George >I haven't done it for awhile, but old Fedoras didn't do that. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 22:46:08 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 10/8/2013 10:25 PM, George Neuner wrote: > >> I have tried many distros over the years and I have yet to find one >> that *doesn't* muck up the partition table even when you install on >> (and boot load from) already existing partitions. Often, after >> installation, non-Linux based partitioning software will no longer >> work on the disk. > >I haven't done it for awhile, but old Fedoras didn't do that.I think you're probably correct that really old versions (circa 1.x kernels) didn't have the problem. But more recent fdisk, parted, etc. allow creating partitions and logical drives that are not cylinder aligned. A lot of non-Linux partitioning software expects cylinder alignment and won't edit - or worse, won't even read - tables that have "illegal" sizes. I have found that the "easy" GUI installs - which you can count on most people using - very often create non-aligned partitions even when the entire disk is given to Linux. And they all seem to rewrite the partition table even when you tell them to use (and install grub on) already existing partitions. Getting multiple distros - or even multiple versions of the same distro - to coexist on the same disk can be a vexing problem. Getting any distro to coexist with another OS can be extremely difficult if you don't want to use grub to do the boot selection. Fortunately VMware (at least since v6) seems to be able to run most versions of Linux without difficulty, so I no longer have any pressing need for multi-booting. I mention the problem simply because others may yet want to do it. YMMV, George
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
On 10/9/2013 1:21 AM, George Neuner wrote:> On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 22:46:08 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 10/8/2013 10:25 PM, George Neuner wrote: >> >>> I have tried many distros over the years and I have yet to find one >>> that *doesn't* muck up the partition table even when you install on >>> (and boot load from) already existing partitions. Often, after >>> installation, non-Linux based partitioning software will no longer >>> work on the disk. >> >> I haven't done it for awhile, but old Fedoras didn't do that. > > I think you're probably correct that really old versions (circa 1.x > kernels) didn't have the problem. But more recent fdisk, parted, etc. > allow creating partitions and logical drives that are not cylinder > aligned. A lot of non-Linux partitioning software expects cylinder > alignment and won't edit - or worse, won't even read - tables that > have "illegal" sizes.Linux has *allowed* that for awhile, but earlier versions of the tools didn't _force_ partition boundaries to be unaligned. The Fedoras I was thinking about would have been about V7, i.e. 2.6ish kernels.> > I have found that the "easy" GUI installs - which you can count on > most people using - very often create non-aligned partitions even when > the entire disk is given to Linux. And they all seem to rewrite the > partition table even when you tell them to use (and install grub on) > already existing partitions. Getting multiple distros - or even > multiple versions of the same distro - to coexist on the same disk can > be a vexing problem. Getting any distro to coexist with another OS > can be extremely difficult if you don't want to use grub to do the > boot selection. > > Fortunately VMware (at least since v6) seems to be able to run most > versions of Linux without difficulty, so I no longer have any pressing > need for multi-booting. I mention the problem simply because others > may yet want to do it.That's assuming that semi-sane versions of Windows continue to be available to host it. Microsoft seems to be hell-bent on killing off Windows, so I think some future-proofing is in order. I've been buying Win7 and XP licenses recently so that I can continue to run my old S/W past next April. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
On a sunny day (Wed, 09 Oct 2013 00:05:13 +0200) it happened David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote in <ktCdnb3UmYAEHMnPnZ2dnUVZ8mednZ2d@lyse.net>:>On 08/10/13 23:28, Roberto Waltman wrote: >> Randy Yates wrote: >>>> Do not be afraid to be root, just think before you hit enter.... >>> >>> Again, right-on. I get so tired of the "community" pushing sudo. Just >>> "su -" and git 'er done. >> >> What's wrong with sudo -i -H ? ;) >> (after modifying /etc/sudoers to *not* ask for passwords) > >Or "sudo su -", which is my personal favourite sudo command.On the Raspberry Pies I simply changed the /etc/passwd entry for 'pi' so 'pi' has root permissions and shell in /root Never sudo again... Usually I ssh -Y pi@IP_ADDRESS to those, the default password is still 'raspberry' in there... I develop a lot of stuff compiling and assembling on the Raspberry. It is small, powerful, low power... and very stable. As JTAG programmer: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi/ As PIC programmer: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_noppp/ As DVB-S transmitter: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/ As satellite tracker: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_satellite_tracker/ That is for the 'techies' ;-)
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 18:49:33 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:> Any time you end up wanting to use software that's not available as part > of the basic distro, I've found that maintining rpm/deb based systems > tends to balloon into a large, frustrating job.That is almost true. I had only minor problems installing pure source packages, provided all dependencies were met. The main problem usually is the shortsighted programmer who distributes his/her masterpiece that depends on the very latest, or worse, beta version of everything, which sometimes forces the user to break a package based system.
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
On 09/10/13 07:21, George Neuner wrote:> On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 22:46:08 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 10/8/2013 10:25 PM, George Neuner wrote: >> >>> I have tried many distros over the years and I have yet to find one >>> that *doesn't* muck up the partition table even when you install on >>> (and boot load from) already existing partitions. Often, after >>> installation, non-Linux based partitioning software will no longer >>> work on the disk. >> >> I haven't done it for awhile, but old Fedoras didn't do that. > > I think you're probably correct that really old versions (circa 1.x > kernels) didn't have the problem. But more recent fdisk, parted, etc. > allow creating partitions and logical drives that are not cylinder > aligned. A lot of non-Linux partitioning software expects cylinder > alignment and won't edit - or worse, won't even read - tables that > have "illegal" sizes. > > I have found that the "easy" GUI installs - which you can count on > most people using - very often create non-aligned partitions even when > the entire disk is given to Linux. And they all seem to rewrite the > partition table even when you tell them to use (and install grub on) > already existing partitions. Getting multiple distros - or even > multiple versions of the same distro - to coexist on the same disk can > be a vexing problem. Getting any distro to coexist with another OS > can be extremely difficult if you don't want to use grub to do the > boot selection.I can't say I have used any non-Linux partitioning software, other than a plain Windows installer. (I thought most partitioning tools these days, except Windows own tools, used Linux.) But whenever I want to do something complicated with a disk setup, such as raids or LVM, I usually use System Rescue CD to set up the partitions and then boot the distro installation. I haven't had any problems getting the installer to use the existing partitions. If I want to have several different systems on the same machine, other than a dual-boot Windows/Linux, I usually use either VirtualBox for desktops or openvz for servers. That avoids all partitioning issues. (With openvz I typically have LVM and logical partitions per virtual machine.)> > Fortunately VMware (at least since v6) seems to be able to run most > versions of Linux without difficulty, so I no longer have any pressing > need for multi-booting. I mention the problem simply because others > may yet want to do it. > > YMMV, > George >
Reply by ●October 9, 20132013-10-09
> > That's assuming that semi-sane versions of Windows continue to be > available to host it. Microsoft seems to be hell-bent on killing off > Windows, so I think some future-proofing is in order. I've been buying > Win7 and XP licenses recently so that I can continue to run my old S/W > past next April.How far do you predict MS will go to kill off XP? I started hedging my bets years ago by buying DELL computers. That's mostly what's available in the "free or almost free" box at garage sales. The whole system is WAY cheaper than buying a license. They self-activate, as do many OEM's. I'm hoping they'll be immune to MS turning off the activation server.