Problems interfacing PIC UART to PC Serial Port

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:02:23 +0100, David Brown wrote:

>> HyperTerminal doesn't need to use hardware handshaking. It can use
>> XON/OFF codes or no flow-control at all, if that's what you want.
>
>It can, sometimes - but I (and others) have had occasions when it just won't
>communicate at all, even with no flow control.

Really? I haven't - ever.

>Whether it is because of
>handshake issues or other problems, I don't know - it is simply not worth
>bothering about.

Probably poor hardware, but if you don't investigate, you'll never
know.

>Tera Term Pro is hardly exotic.  It has features that HyperTerminal does not
>have (such as macros), and HyperTerminal has functionality that TTP does not
>(for easy access to bulliten boards and such like), but in practice TTP is
>faster and easier to use

You're saying it's quicker to download, install, and learn to use TTP
than it would be to just use the program you're already familiar with?
Get real.

>- it has all the functionality you need in most
>cases, without having to mess around trying to persuade HyperTerminal that
>you are not using a modem, and don't need an area code because you are not
>dialing, etc.

Are you claiming that TTP doesn't need to be configured in some way to
use a modem or not? How does it know what settings to use for this
session, is it psychicware?

>I'm sure HyperTerminal is great for getting a modem
>connection to dinosaur servers, but when all you really want is a simple
>terminal connection on a direct serial link, then you are better with TTP
>(or many other programs - TTP is free and simple to use).

You keep making this claim, but I've seen no evidence whatever to
support it. As a simple terminal emulator (which is all it's claimed
to be) HyperTerminal is entirely fit for it's purpose.

>When you want something with more features, at the cost of usability, then
>there are again many other choices that are far better than HyperTerminal -
>RealTerm is one option I've used.

Non-programmers are easily impressed, I suppose. Once you're beyond
what HT can do for you, it's probably best to write some code to
handle the serial port directly.

Incidentally, is the version of HT you're using as ancient as your
copy of Outlook Express? It seems somewhat illogical for an OE user to
criticise HyperTerminal's comparatively trivial imperfections at all,
come to that.

-- 
  Max

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:31:08 +0100, Meindert Sprang wrote:

>> > HyperTerminal doesn't need to use hardware handshaking. It can use
>> > XON/OFF codes or no flow-control at all, if that's what you want.
>
>Correct. But if you don't know that, it can take you all day before you find
>out that the default setting is 'hardware handshake on' and you wonder why
>Hyperterminal refuses to send characters to your device over three
>wires.....

Just reading the help file would be too much to ask for, I suppose?

What do you suggest should be the default handshake setting for a
terminal emulator, anyhow? Out of the box, the VT-100 used hardware
handshaking, while the VT-220 used XON/XOFF by default, IIRC, so I
don't see why no handshaking would be such an obvious choice here.

-- 
  Max

"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message
news:405086ae$1@news.nb.nu...
> > > HyperTerminal doesn't need to use hardware handshaking. It can use
> > > XON/OFF codes or no flow-control at all, if that's what you want.
>
> Correct. But if you don't know that, it can take you all day before you
find
> out that the default setting is 'hardware handshake on' and you wonder why
> Hyperterminal refuses to send characters to your device over three
> wires.....
>
> > It can, sometimes - but I (and others) have had occasions when it just
> won't
> > communicate at all, even with no flow control.  Whether it is because of
> > handshake issues or other problems, I don't know - it is simply not
worth
> > bothering about.
>
> Hyperterminal sometimes refuses to open a port. This happens when data is
> already coming on that port. When opened by hyperterminal, is sees overrun
> errors or so and erronously says "unable to open port"
>
> > > TeraTerm Pro isn't much better featured than HyperTerminal anyway.
>
> But a helluvalot more robust. The only drawback is that it only supports
> ports up to COM4
>
You can have more than four COM ports if you edit the .ini file to (say)

    ; Max serial port number
    MaxComPort=15

which is useful if you have a lot of serial ports. This in in the help file.

I'd agree with others: use TeraTerm. It does what it says on the tin whereas
as HyperTerminal doesn't cope with serial connections that don't have
RTS/CTS etc. at all well (despite what you might tell it). I've found that
HyperTerminal has caused more greif in debugging serial ports than anything
else (not just for me).

    Andrew

"Max" <mtj2@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:281150liegubcldqjppj6c74e4krul29rm@4ax.com...
> You're saying it's quicker to download, install, and learn to use TTP
> than it would be to just use the program you're already familiar with?
> Get real.

In the case of TTP: yes. It doens't even have an install procedure. Just
unpack the zipper in a directory and start it.

> Are you claiming that TTP doesn't need to be configured in some way to
> use a modem or not? How does it know what settings to use for this
> session, is it psychicware?

Teraterm does not know about modems. It's a terminal program, opening a port
when you tell it to. Simple as that.

> You keep making this claim, but I've seen no evidence whatever to
> support it. As a simple terminal emulator (which is all it's claimed
> to be) HyperTerminal is entirely fit for it's purpose.

Oh boy. Have you ever had a client on the phone, having a problem with a
device and tried to tell him to use Hyperterminal to connect to the device?
And once the client succeeds, tell him to change the baudrate. I mean, it is
so stupid to first have to drop the connection, walk through several dialogs
and open the connection again. In TTP, you just tell the customer to type
Alt-S,P and change the baudrate that you see on the screen.

Meindert

"Andrew Jackson" <alj@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1079025988.36882@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message
> news:405086ae$1@news.nb.nu...
> > But a helluvalot more robust. The only drawback is that it only supports
> > ports up to COM4
> >
> You can have more than four COM ports if you edit the .ini file to (say)
>
>     ; Max serial port number
>     MaxComPort=15
>
> which is useful if you have a lot of serial ports. This in in the help
file.

Which I've never read, obiously :-)
But I just tried to set it to 30 (my Bluetooth provides port COM20-30), but
it still seems limited to COM16

Meindert

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:59:00 +0100, Meindert Sprang wrote:

>> You're saying it's quicker to download, install, and learn to use TTP
>> than it would be to just use the program you're already familiar with?
>> Get real.
>
>In the case of TTP: yes. It doens't even have an install procedure. Just
>unpack the zipper in a directory and start it.

But HyperTerminal is on the PC already, and most people who have a
need for a terminal emulator will likely be familiar with it, even if
it's not their first choice.

Interesting that TTP doesn't use an installer. You need WinZip
installed as well, then? And to create shortcuts manually, of course.
That seems less than handy to me, YMMV.

>Teraterm does not know about modems. It's a terminal program, opening a port
>when you tell it to. Simple as that.

Oh. So it has *less* functionality than HT, yes? I don't see how it
can claim to be a "terminal emulator" at all if it can't handle any
form of handshaking. It sure as eggs isn't emulating a VT-100, that's
for sure.

>> You keep making this claim, but I've seen no evidence whatever to
>> support it. As a simple terminal emulator (which is all it's claimed
>> to be) HyperTerminal is entirely fit for it's purpose.
>
>Oh boy. Have you ever had a client on the phone, having a problem with a
>device and tried to tell him to use Hyperterminal to connect to the device?

Criminy, no! I doubt I'd have lasted long in the business if I asked
customers to troubleshoot systems for me. If something like that was
necessary, I'd probably write some diagnostic software and send it to
them (assuming they couldn't just send me some suitable log files,
that is - and if they couldn't, I've already dropped the ball).

>And once the client succeeds, tell him to change the baudrate. I mean, it is
>so stupid to first have to drop the connection, walk through several dialogs
>and open the connection again. In TTP, you just tell the customer to type
>Alt-S,P and change the baudrate that you see on the screen.

Had you already instructed him in how to download and install it?
Or, if you installed it for him, you could've just as easily
configured a connection in HT that he could re-use.

-- 
  Max

"Max" <mtj2@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:7dc150hnh79vvada58f8nis4nt5e3vafdq@4ax.com...
> But HyperTerminal is on the PC already

Not necessarily.

> and most people who have a
> need for a terminal emulator will likely be familiar with it, even if
> it's not their first choice.

> Interesting that TTP doesn't use an installer. You need WinZip
> installed as well, then?

Who hasn't? Or Wincommander, will also unzip.

> And to create shortcuts manually, of course.
> That seems less than handy to me, YMMV.

C'mon man, one drag with your right mouse button down from the program
directory back to the desktop does it.

> >Teraterm does not know about modems. It's a terminal program, opening a
port
> >when you tell it to. Simple as that.
>
> Oh. So it has *less* functionality than HT, yes? I don't see how it
> can claim to be a "terminal emulator" at all if it can't handle any
> form of handshaking. It sure as eggs isn't emulating a VT-100, that's
> for sure.

What i meant is: HT keeps nagging about opening a connection and asking for
phone numbers. TTP does not. TTP *does* know about handshaking. Nobody said
otherwise. And yes it does all kinds of terminal emulations too.
Stop nagging, download it and see for yourself.

> Criminy, no! I doubt I'd have lasted long in the business if I asked
> customers to troubleshoot systems for me. If something like that was
> necessary, I'd probably write some diagnostic software and send it to
> them (assuming they couldn't just send me some suitable log files,
> that is - and if they couldn't, I've already dropped the ball).

Well, in my case it's different. People use my devices for computer
navigation. The logical thing to do is when they don't get any GPS input is
in their programs is to check with a terminal program if the dataformat is
ok or if my device is configured the right way. And it is a but tricky
sometimes to send diagnostic tool to someone on a ship at sea....

Meindert

What about IVT by Ruud Beerstra?  It is a freeware terminal emulator
that also does Telnet via TCP/IP.


-Robert Scott
 Ypsilanti, Michigan
(Reply through this forum, not by direct e-mail to me, as automatic reply address is fake.)

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:02:06 +0100, Meindert Sprang wrote:

>What i meant is: HT keeps nagging about opening a connection and asking for
>phone numbers. 

No it doesn't. As soon as you select a COM port rather than a modem,
the Country/region drop-down and the edit boxes for area code and
phone number are disabled, and a dialog is shown to allow you to set
the speed, character format, and flow control. No nagging involved.
(Version 5.1, btw)

>TTP does not. TTP *does* know about handshaking. Nobody said
>otherwise. And yes it does all kinds of terminal emulations too.
>Stop nagging, download it and see for yourself.

Nobody has yet pointed out any useful feature that HyperTerminal
doesn't have.

>Well, in my case it's different. People use my devices for computer
>navigation. The logical thing to do is when they don't get any GPS input is
>in their programs is to check with a terminal program if the dataformat is
>ok or if my device is configured the right way. And it is a but tricky
>sometimes to send diagnostic tool to someone on a ship at sea....

Just as hard to download TTP, surely?

-- 
  Max

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:22:24 GMT, Robert Scott wrote:

>What about IVT by Ruud Beerstra?  It is a freeware terminal emulator
>that also does Telnet via TCP/IP.

So does HyperTerminal.

I do wish some of the people who are so free with criticism of
HyperTerminal would at least take the trouble to actually run the
thing and check their facts first.

-- 
  Max