Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards?

On 22/09/14 14:19, David Brown wrote:
> I recommend "Nanny Ogg's Cookbook" - it has a discussion about how the
> units used in the "original" recipes were translated into metric from
> the standard unit of "some" (i.e., put in some flour, some water, and
> some salt..).

One of my favourite cookbooks (which has never been out
of print since 1954) is "Food In England" by Dorothy Hartley.
It tends to avoid mentioning quantities, which is the
way it should be for everything except breads and cakes.

On 22/09/14 13:37, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2014 5:25 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>> On 2014-09-22, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>> On 22/09/14 11:25, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/2014 4:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Try this recipe for variety:
>>>>
>>>> Let me try to translate the ingredients...
>>>>
>>>>> 3 dl. cream   -  1-1/4 cups
>>>
>>> Despite being Scottish, I've never been good at imperial measures.
>>> Inches are all right, but how can one possibly use a "cup" as a unit of
>>> measure?  I've got cups of all different sizes - and no doubt an
>>> American "cup" is twice that of a British cup...
>>
>> American cup is 1/2 pint,  English is 5% smaller at 2/5 pint,
>> metric is 10% larger at 1/4 litre.
>
> I think the uncertainty comes from more colloquial usage.
> E.g., Tom's comment that "10/15 cups (coffee) in 1.3L"
>
> Here, we would say "cups of coffee" (nominally ~6 oz) or
> "cups of tea" (probably *4* oz?) and NEVER "6C coffee"
> (C == "measured cup").
>
> E.g., when I describe my tea consumption, I am careful to say
> "8 pints daily" or "about a gallon a day" and not "8 cups daily"
> because the "cup I use for tea" is 16 oz and not 8 (as in C) or
> 4 as in "(nominal) tea cup/bowl" (when drinking caffeinated tea,
> the difference is significant!)

Oh yes, forgot to mention. The US pint is 80%
of the Imperial pint, 16floz vs 20floz.

When did merkins pick up the habit of short-changing us? :)

On 9/22/2014 6:32 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 22/09/14 13:25, Jasen Betts wrote:

>> American cup is 1/2 pint,  English is 5% smaller at 2/5 pint,
>> metric is 10% larger at 1/4 litre.
>
> Not according to
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29
> which, incidentally, has /two/ US definitions for cup,
> both smaller than an Imperial cup.

If you asked any American who has *used* a "measuring cup", there is
no uncertainty.  We'd not say a cup is half a pint but, rather, a
pint is two Cups.  A quart, 2 pints.  8 oz to a Cup, Etc.

At smaller quantities, most folks are uncertain:  e.g., 3t = 1T;
2T = 1oz; 2 oz = 1 shot.

Even less formally:  2 smidgen = 1 pinch; 2 pinch = 1 dash; 8 dashes = 1t.
(Most folks tend to think of these as just informal quantities:  "a little
bit")

Of course, NO ONE bakes anymore so this is quickly leaving the common
conscience:  "Pour contents of box into bowl; add water; mix well"

On 22/09/14 15:01, Don Y wrote:
> Of course, NO ONE bakes anymore so this is quickly leaving the common
> conscience:  "Pour contents of box into bowl; add water; mix well"

For baking the accuracies required are far tighter than
in other types of cooking. An extra 5% water will
significantly affect bread but not a stew!

On 9/22/2014 6:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 22/09/14 14:00, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 22/09/14 12:33, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/22/2014 3:44 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 22/09/14 11:25, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 9/22/2014 4:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try this recipe for variety:
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me try to translate the ingredients...
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 dl. cream   -  1-1/4 cups
>>>>
>>>> Despite being Scottish, I've never been good at imperial measures.
>>>> Inches are all right, but how can one possibly use a "cup" as a unit of
>>>> measure?  I've got cups of all different sizes - and no doubt an
>>>> American "cup" is twice that of a British cup...
>>>
>>> Obviously, a cup is a standardized unit of measure.
>>
>> Er, no. See, as a starting point,
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29
>
> I love the second sentence of that page - "It is principally used in the
> United States and Liberia".  There is no denying the technical
> achievements the US has made, but think how much more they could do if
> their dropped the medieval units of measurement!

Don't Brits still use pints?  Miles?  Feet?

Units of measure see very different uses, here.

Scientists, engineers, etc. *may* (opt) to work in metric units -- or not.
When I create a CAD drawing, I have to pick which units of measure to adopt
throughout.

Government endorsed/standardized units are what they are (argue with
the politicians).  They really only apply to legal comparisons -- The
Market (largely) allows items to be sold in whatever units the two
parties agree upon.

Joe Public has no incentive to abandon what his parents/grandparents have
used.  What's the benefit?  Start buying fuel in liters instead of gallons?
The price per unit energy doesn't change (though it *will* for some reason).
Start buying milk in 4 liter bottles (why 4 and not 1 -- or 10)?  Should
hotdogs be sold in packages of *10*?  Ditto buns?  A bottle of beer always
a liter?  And, 10 bottles in a "6 pack"?  Should there be some decimal number
of slices of bread in a "loaf"?  (think of how hard it would be to compare
loaves, otherwise!  :> )  Sell eggs in quantities of 10?  How large should
a container of fresh strawberries be?  Should the next larger container be
a 10-fold increase?  If you want something between the two, buy some number
of the smaller size?  Should canned corn be sold in the same size (weight)
cans as canned peas?  What about asparagus?

How do you deal with bulk produce -- X grams of celery @ $0.0025/g?
Does it even make sense to compare celery prices (per g) to that of
potatoes?  (potatoes are sold by the pound, here; celery by the "bunch")
How does a "bunch" of cilantro compare to a bunch of celery?  Do we
even care?  Do we standardize on the leaf size of the cilantro (as it
directly affects the usable portion of the weight that you are paying for!)

Joe Public is accustomed to buying things in "conventional sizes" -- even
if those sizes are not standardized (except "by convention").  Rx's call
for "the zest of a large lemon" or "a small onion".  They are typically
just starting points -- add more or less to taste.  (each time I make an
Rx, I make small changes to evaluate their impact on the resulting taste,
cooking time, etc.  Then, markup the recipe with my ideas for what to
try *next* -- "the result was too tart when the lemon was increased;
try XXX next time!")

Vendors have seized upon this informal size convention to silently increase
prices without changing the MARKED price on an item.

E.g., OJ is purchased in 56 oz containers (1 qt, 1 pt, 1 cup) -- despite the
fact that it *looks* like a "half gallon" (of *milk*!)  Come out with a new
package, bundle TWO of them together (to make it appear to be *more* than
the old package -- but not exactly TWICE!) and convince folks that it is
a better "deal" than the old package (which you no longer offer for sale!).
Then, eventually sell them singly for a net increase in price.

How large is a bottle of laundry detergent?  A bottle of soda?  A *can* of
soda?  (e.g., Coke's used to come in 7 oz bottles).  Coors (beer) once
tried introducing (silently) an 11 oz can of beer.  Change the shape a
little bit and it's *roughly* the same "heft" (when full)... "Who's gonna
know?  ~8% invisible price increase -- marketing coup!!"  How many sheets in
a roll of paper towels?  Toilet paper?

[We have a term for this:  it is called The Free Market!  The theory is
that consumers -- unaided by gummit -- are smart enough to drive the
market in the "right direction" (whatever that means).  Any sort of
regulation/standardization would *interfere* with their rights to
dynamically engage in this interactive "struggle"]

And why anything other than cents, dimes (10c), dollars (100c), ten dollar,
hundred dollar and thousand dollar bills?  Why these oddball units (25c,
50c, $2, $5, $20, $50)?

And what about this silly clock and calendar??!  60 minutes, 60 seconds, 24
hours, ... Think about all the effort wasted as people try to compute
differences in times-of-day!  And, keeping track of which months have 31
days vs. 30 -- and that pesky February!  What is the *date* 30 days hence?
Time zones?  Why do we all have to agree that "Sun ROUGHLY directly overhead"
is "noon"?  Why can't it be 1500 in someplaces and 0200 in some others?
You *still* have to know what the local "activity schedule" is in some
remote location ("It's 7PM, there -- businesses will be closed") and
be able to determine the time skew (zone).  Wouldn't it be nicer to just
be able to say, "I will call you at 2315?" -- having already compensated
(in your mind) for the fact that 2315 is midday, there?

Yet, despite all these "inefficiencies", life (business) still seems to
go on!  And, commercially, apparently pretty well!

On 9/22/2014 7:22 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 22/09/14 15:01, Don Y wrote:
>> Of course, NO ONE bakes anymore so this is quickly leaving the common
>> conscience:  "Pour contents of box into bowl; add water; mix well"
>
> For baking the accuracies required are far tighter than
> in other types of cooking. An extra 5% water will
> significantly affect bread but not a stew!

Sure!  A *packed* cup of brown sugar is significantly different than
a *loose* cup of granulated sugar -- or, confectioner's sugar!

Stew (ditto soup) is (historically) a collection of "leftovers".
The number of potatoes you put in depends on how many are ABOUT TO
GO BAD.  Add a lot, and you'll probably want to increase the seasonings
accordingly -- as well as toss in more carrots, etc.

Baking is far more of a ratiometric process as you're dealing with chemistries
in addition to taste.  E.g., the ratio of vanilla to sugar to baking powder
to ... tends to be relatively constant.  And, nice integer multiples:
1t vanilla, 0.5t salt, 1t powder...  That;s where volumetric measure is
such a convenience:  have containers that are already created AT these
sizes and multiples thereof (which mimics our measurement units)
and just ensure you "measure level"!

On 22/09/14 16:55, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2014 6:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 22/09/14 14:00, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 22/09/14 12:33, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/2014 3:44 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 22/09/14 11:25, rickman wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/22/2014 4:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try this recipe for variety:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me try to translate the ingredients...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3 dl. cream   -  1-1/4 cups
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite being Scottish, I've never been good at imperial measures.
>>>>> Inches are all right, but how can one possibly use a "cup" as a
>>>>> unit of
>>>>> measure?  I've got cups of all different sizes - and no doubt an
>>>>> American "cup" is twice that of a British cup...
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, a cup is a standardized unit of measure.
>>>
>>> Er, no. See, as a starting point,
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29
>>
>> I love the second sentence of that page - "It is principally used in the
>> United States and Liberia".  There is no denying the technical
>> achievements the US has made, but think how much more they could do if
>> their dropped the medieval units of measurement!
> 
> Don't Brits still use pints?  Miles?  Feet?
> 

I've lived in Norway for the last 20 years, so I'm a bit out of touch...

Yes, people still use pints, miles, feet and inches, and sometimes
pounds weight and gallons (especially for petrol) - but they are very
rarely used for anything accurate.  Older generations use Fahrenheit for
weather (as long as it is above freezing - below freezing, everyone uses
Celsius).  Recipes are, of course, always approximate, and it's not
uncommon to use imperial units there.

Milk can be in litres or pints.  Beer is always in pints - even if it is
actually half a litre...

> Units of measure see very different uses, here.
> 
> Scientists, engineers, etc. *may* (opt) to work in metric units -- or not.
> When I create a CAD drawing, I have to pick which units of measure to adopt
> throughout.

Apart from occasional exceptions, such as PCB track widths in mils, you
will not find many non-metric units in modern science, engineering, or
technical fields outside the USA.

> 
> Government endorsed/standardized units are what they are (argue with
> the politicians).  They really only apply to legal comparisons -- The
> Market (largely) allows items to be sold in whatever units the two
> parties agree upon.
> 
> Joe Public has no incentive to abandon what his parents/grandparents have
> used.  What's the benefit?  Start buying fuel in liters instead of gallons?
> The price per unit energy doesn't change (though it *will* for some
> reason).
> Start buying milk in 4 liter bottles (why 4 and not 1 -- or 10)?  Should
> hotdogs be sold in packages of *10*?  Ditto buns?  A bottle of beer always
> a liter?  And, 10 bottles in a "6 pack"?  Should there be some decimal
> number
> of slices of bread in a "loaf"?  (think of how hard it would be to compare
> loaves, otherwise!  :> )  Sell eggs in quantities of 10?  How large should
> a container of fresh strawberries be?  Should the next larger container be
> a 10-fold increase?  If you want something between the two, buy some number
> of the smaller size?  Should canned corn be sold in the same size (weight)
> cans as canned peas?  What about asparagus?
> 
> How do you deal with bulk produce -- X grams of celery @ $0.0025/g?
> Does it even make sense to compare celery prices (per g) to that of
> potatoes?  (potatoes are sold by the pound, here; celery by the "bunch")
> How does a "bunch" of cilantro compare to a bunch of celery?  Do we
> even care?  Do we standardize on the leaf size of the cilantro (as it
> directly affects the usable portion of the weight that you are paying for!)
> 
> Joe Public is accustomed to buying things in "conventional sizes" -- even
> if those sizes are not standardized (except "by convention").  Rx's call
> for "the zest of a large lemon" or "a small onion".  They are typically
> just starting points -- add more or less to taste.  (each time I make an
> Rx, I make small changes to evaluate their impact on the resulting taste,
> cooking time, etc.  Then, markup the recipe with my ideas for what to
> try *next* -- "the result was too tart when the lemon was increased;
> try XXX next time!")
> 
> Vendors have seized upon this informal size convention to silently increase
> prices without changing the MARKED price on an item.
> 
> E.g., OJ is purchased in 56 oz containers (1 qt, 1 pt, 1 cup) -- despite
> the
> fact that it *looks* like a "half gallon" (of *milk*!)  Come out with a new
> package, bundle TWO of them together (to make it appear to be *more* than
> the old package -- but not exactly TWICE!) and convince folks that it is
> a better "deal" than the old package (which you no longer offer for sale!).
> Then, eventually sell them singly for a net increase in price.
> 
> How large is a bottle of laundry detergent?  A bottle of soda?  A *can* of
> soda?  (e.g., Coke's used to come in 7 oz bottles).  Coors (beer) once
> tried introducing (silently) an 11 oz can of beer.  Change the shape a
> little bit and it's *roughly* the same "heft" (when full)... "Who's gonna
> know?  ~8% invisible price increase -- marketing coup!!"  How many
> sheets in
> a roll of paper towels?  Toilet paper?
> 
> [We have a term for this:  it is called The Free Market!  The theory is
> that consumers -- unaided by gummit -- are smart enough to drive the
> market in the "right direction" (whatever that means).  Any sort of
> regulation/standardization would *interfere* with their rights to
> dynamically engage in this interactive "struggle"]
> 
> And why anything other than cents, dimes (10c), dollars (100c), ten dollar,
> hundred dollar and thousand dollar bills?  Why these oddball units (25c,
> 50c, $2, $5, $20, $50)?
> 
> And what about this silly clock and calendar??!  60 minutes, 60 seconds, 24
> hours, ... Think about all the effort wasted as people try to compute
> differences in times-of-day!  And, keeping track of which months have 31
> days vs. 30 -- and that pesky February!  What is the *date* 30 days hence?
> Time zones?  Why do we all have to agree that "Sun ROUGHLY directly
> overhead"
> is "noon"?  Why can't it be 1500 in someplaces and 0200 in some others?
> You *still* have to know what the local "activity schedule" is in some
> remote location ("It's 7PM, there -- businesses will be closed") and
> be able to determine the time skew (zone).  Wouldn't it be nicer to just
> be able to say, "I will call you at 2315?" -- having already compensated
> (in your mind) for the fact that 2315 is midday, there?
> 
> Yet, despite all these "inefficiencies", life (business) still seems to
> go on!  And, commercially, apparently pretty well!

And you wonder why people say your posts wander...

I made a light-hearted jibe at American measurements - I didn't plan a
discussion on every measurement system since the dawn of mankind!

On 22/09/14 15:55, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2014 6:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 22/09/14 14:00, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 22/09/14 12:33, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/2014 3:44 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 22/09/14 11:25, rickman wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/22/2014 4:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try this recipe for variety:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me try to translate the ingredients...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3 dl. cream   -  1-1/4 cups
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite being Scottish, I've never been good at imperial measures.
>>>>> Inches are all right, but how can one possibly use a "cup" as a unit of
>>>>> measure?  I've got cups of all different sizes - and no doubt an
>>>>> American "cup" is twice that of a British cup...
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, a cup is a standardized unit of measure.
>>>
>>> Er, no. See, as a starting point,
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29
>>
>> I love the second sentence of that page - "It is principally used in the
>> United States and Liberia".  There is no denying the technical
>> achievements the US has made, but think how much more they could do if
>> their dropped the medieval units of measurement!
>
> Don't Brits still use pints?  Miles?  Feet?

A pint is 20fl.oz. vs 16fl.oz. in the US.

Two different miles, nautical miles being the "other".

A foot is reputedly 36 barleycorns wide.

On 9/22/2014 8:35 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> Yet, despite all these "inefficiencies", life (business) still seems to
>> go on!  And, commercially, apparently pretty well!
>
> And you wonder why people say your posts wander...
>
> I made a light-hearted jibe at American measurements - I didn't plan a
> discussion on every measurement system since the dawn of mankind!

My point was that we all use an odd collection of units -- even "metrified"
countries -- every day.  And, life still goes on.  If there was reason to
decimalize these other things, why then, not EVERYTHING?  Those souls
still have to deal with "odd quantities" (how many stone do you weigh?)

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:03:38 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> Gave us:


>
>Two different miles, nautical miles being the "other".
>
>A foot is reputedly 36 barleycorns wide.

  Must be why that John fellow had to die.