Seeking advice: Getting into entry-level embedded engineering

Hi all,
I'm looking for advice about being an embedded engineer. I have a BS and MS in electrical engineering, an MBA and a certificate in embedded systems engineering. After completing my last degree (mba) in 2005 I spent 9 years being a web designer in that same university where I had been studying. The job involved simple web design skills and the work was not related to my electrical engineering background so that part of my career doesn't look good on my resume. I would have gotten out of it sooner but I had some health problems which are better now.

Since the last year or two I had been trying to get an entry-level embedded job and I got a handful of interviews but no offers. Most positions require experience. I am passionate about automotive electronics so recently I have gotten a test technician job in an automotive audio equipment manufacturing facility. They make audio amplifiers and car stereos with navigation screens, audio etc. This job is very different from my last web design job and its also much more demanding; 12 hour shifts spent walking and standing and carrying a radio trying to maintain test equipment that may have failed for any random reason. I am not 100% sure about what I want to do with my career and I'm over-qualified for my new job but at least I am closer to where I want to be: electronics and probably automotive electronics. I think I want to be involved with cars or green energy in some way.

Like anyone I want to get to a point where I get multiple job offers and job security for work that I genuinely enjoy doing. In my new company, other job titles are test engineer or process engineer and I could try for them after a year or two with my current technician job but I feel I may not want those jobs because they're all related to maintenance of test equipment in one way or the other. I want to be creative, participate in the development process and work directly with software and hardware/electronics. The new company has another facility in another state that has these types of jobs but like for any new type of job I would need to significantly improve my resume.
Since I don't have actual work experience in embedded engineering, what can I do at home? I could do projects but what kinds? 
I do have a few ideas for my present job to create products that could be helpful for everyone. The automotive plant uses a lot of wire harnesses to test amplifiers. The harnesses have multiple wires between various connector types. I could make a micro-controller based harness continuity checker that connects to a PC via USB and tells us which of the wires are broken and need replacement. The existing procedure is to use a multi-meter to check individual wires manually and a few of them have specific resistances between the connection points. The new tool I would make isn't a huge necessity for them but it will be a nice exercise for me and it may improve my job prospects later. It could be a big project depending on how complex I want to make it. I am excited about it and it should be pretty cool when its completed.
Another idea is creating a special testing unit that looks like the car stereo unit and tests the test probes to make sure they are making good contact. I will keep thinking about what else I can do. I told my boss about these projects to make sure he was OK with them and he was so I'm glad to have his approval.

Besides doing projects at home I can also take online training from India such as programming in Linux, writing device drivers etc. I will look at job descriptions and other resumes to see what I can do to learn those skills. Every little bit can help and I am willing to spend any required time or money doing these things. I can also buy embedded kits some of which I already have left over from the certificate I did.

I can elaborate more on various things but I wanted to be as short as possible to save people's time. 

Thanks in advance for any feedback or advice!

Alex

Alex wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm looking for advice about being an embedded engineer. I have a BS and
> MS in electrical engineering, an MBA and a certificate in embedded systems
> engineering. After completing my last degree (mba) in 2005 I spent 9 years
> being a web designer in that same university where I had been studying.
> The job involved simple web design skills and the work was not related to
> my electrical engineering background so that part of my career doesn't
> look good on my resume. I would have gotten out of it sooner but I had
> some health problems which are better now.
> 
> Since the last year or two I had been trying to get an entry-level
> embedded job and I got a handful of interviews but no offers. Most
> positions require experience. I am passionate about automotive electronics
> so recently I have gotten a test technician job in an automotive audio
> equipment manufacturing facility. They make audio amplifiers and car
> stereos with navigation screens, audio etc. This job is very different
> from my last web design job and its also much more demanding; 12 hour
> shifts spent walking and standing and carrying a radio trying to maintain
> test equipment that may have failed for any random reason. I am not 100%
> sure about what I want to do with my career and I'm over-qualified for my
> new job but at least I am closer to where I want to be: electronics and
> probably automotive electronics. I think I want to be involved with cars
> or green energy in some way.
> 
> Like anyone I want to get to a point where I get multiple job offers and
> job security for work that I genuinely enjoy doing. In my new company,
> other job titles are test engineer or process engineer and I could try for
> them after a year or two with my current technician job but I feel I may
> not want those jobs because they're all related to maintenance of test
> equipment in one way or the other. I want to be creative, participate in
> the development process and work directly with software and
> hardware/electronics. The new company has another facility in another
> state that has these types of jobs but like for any new type of job I
> would need to significantly improve my resume. Since I don't have actual
> work experience in embedded engineering, what can I do at home? I could do
> projects but what kinds? I do have a few ideas for my present job to
> create products that could be helpful for everyone. The automotive plant
> uses a lot of wire harnesses to test amplifiers. The harnesses have
> multiple wires between various connector types. I could make a
> micro-controller based harness continuity checker that connects to a PC
> via USB and tells us which of the wires are broken and need replacement.
> The existing procedure is to use a multi-meter to check individual wires
> manually and a few of them have specific resistances between the
> connection points. The new tool I would make isn't a huge necessity for
> them but it will be a nice exercise for me and it may improve my job
> prospects later. It could be a big project depending on how complex I want
> to make it. I am excited about it and it should be pretty cool when its
> completed. Another idea is creating a special testing unit that looks like
> the car stereo unit and tests the test probes to make sure they are making
> good contact. I will keep thinking about what else I can do. I told my
> boss about these projects to make sure he was OK with them and he was so
> I'm glad to have his approval.
> 
> Besides doing projects at home I can also take online training from India
> such as programming in Linux, writing device drivers etc. I will look at
> job descriptions and other resumes to see what I can do to learn those
> skills. Every little bit can help and I am willing to spend any required
> time or money doing these things. I can also buy embedded kits some of
> which I already have left over from the certificate I did.
> 
> I can elaborate more on various things but I wanted to be as short as
> possible to save people's time.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback or advice!
> 
> Alex

I once did a cable tester in my apprentice years using some old selextrix 
motors and relays. We had loads of 48 way plug&socket cables that needed end 
to end testing for shorts and broken wires.

If you have enough harnesses to warrant automated test then building a cable 
harness tester be good. Home projects are also useful. Document any of these 
projects as you do them to show that you cover the design appropriately. 
Good embedded systems engineers also maintain interests outside of their own 
specialism, for example, in other engineering disciplines. You also need to 
build your network of contacts. If you can, get to some of the shows and 
conferences to do some face to face networking and explore what those 
contacts can do for you. Set up a profile on LinkedIn and keep it up to 
date. Join in discussions that interest you.

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

hi Paul
Thanks for responding! Great to know that you made a cable tester in the past. If and when I get mine working I'll let you know in case you'd like to know more about it. Thanks for your other suggestions.
In 2006 when I posted to this group with a similar message I had a lot more replies (about 50 in that thread). Maybe my post was different back then or maybe the group has changed. In any case I'll go back and look at those replies as well.
Alex




On Thursday, October 30, 2014 2:46:17 AM UTC-5, Paul E Bennett wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> > I'm looking for advice about being an embedded engineer. I have a BS and
> > MS in electrical engineering, an MBA and a certificate in embedded systems
> > engineering. After completing my last degree (mba) in 2005 I spent 9 years
> > being a web designer in that same university where I had been studying.
> > The job involved simple web design skills and the work was not related to
> > my electrical engineering background so that part of my career doesn't
> > look good on my resume. I would have gotten out of it sooner but I had
> > some health problems which are better now.
> > 
> > Since the last year or two I had been trying to get an entry-level
> > embedded job and I got a handful of interviews but no offers. Most
> > positions require experience. I am passionate about automotive electronics
> > so recently I have gotten a test technician job in an automotive audio
> > equipment manufacturing facility. They make audio amplifiers and car
> > stereos with navigation screens, audio etc. This job is very different
> > from my last web design job and its also much more demanding; 12 hour
> > shifts spent walking and standing and carrying a radio trying to maintain
> > test equipment that may have failed for any random reason. I am not 100%
> > sure about what I want to do with my career and I'm over-qualified for my
> > new job but at least I am closer to where I want to be: electronics and
> > probably automotive electronics. I think I want to be involved with cars
> > or green energy in some way.
> > 
> > Like anyone I want to get to a point where I get multiple job offers and
> > job security for work that I genuinely enjoy doing. In my new company,
> > other job titles are test engineer or process engineer and I could try for
> > them after a year or two with my current technician job but I feel I may
> > not want those jobs because they're all related to maintenance of test
> > equipment in one way or the other. I want to be creative, participate in
> > the development process and work directly with software and
> > hardware/electronics. The new company has another facility in another
> > state that has these types of jobs but like for any new type of job I
> > would need to significantly improve my resume. Since I don't have actual
> > work experience in embedded engineering, what can I do at home? I could do
> > projects but what kinds? I do have a few ideas for my present job to
> > create products that could be helpful for everyone. The automotive plant
> > uses a lot of wire harnesses to test amplifiers. The harnesses have
> > multiple wires between various connector types. I could make a
> > micro-controller based harness continuity checker that connects to a PC
> > via USB and tells us which of the wires are broken and need replacement.
> > The existing procedure is to use a multi-meter to check individual wires
> > manually and a few of them have specific resistances between the
> > connection points. The new tool I would make isn't a huge necessity for
> > them but it will be a nice exercise for me and it may improve my job
> > prospects later. It could be a big project depending on how complex I want
> > to make it. I am excited about it and it should be pretty cool when its
> > completed. Another idea is creating a special testing unit that looks like
> > the car stereo unit and tests the test probes to make sure they are making
> > good contact. I will keep thinking about what else I can do. I told my
> > boss about these projects to make sure he was OK with them and he was so
> > I'm glad to have his approval.
> > 
> > Besides doing projects at home I can also take online training from India
> > such as programming in Linux, writing device drivers etc. I will look at
> > job descriptions and other resumes to see what I can do to learn those
> > skills. Every little bit can help and I am willing to spend any required
> > time or money doing these things. I can also buy embedded kits some of
> > which I already have left over from the certificate I did.
> > 
> > I can elaborate more on various things but I wanted to be as short as
> > possible to save people's time.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any feedback or advice!
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> I once did a cable tester in my apprentice years using some old selextrix 
> motors and relays. We had loads of 48 way plug&socket cables that needed end 
> to end testing for shorts and broken wires.
> 
> If you have enough harnesses to warrant automated test then building a cable 
> harness tester be good. Home projects are also useful. Document any of these 
> projects as you do them to show that you cover the design appropriately. 
> Good embedded systems engineers also maintain interests outside of their own 
> specialism, for example, in other engineering disciplines. You also need to 
> build your network of contacts. If you can, get to some of the shows and 
> conferences to do some face to face networking and explore what those 
> contacts can do for you. Set up a profile on LinkedIn and keep it up to 
> date. Join in discussions that interest you.
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************************************
> Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
> ********************************************************************

On 04.11.2014 10:25, Alex wrote:
> hi Paul
> Thanks for responding! Great to know that you made a cable tester in the past. If and when I get mine working I'll let you know in case you'd like to know more about it. Thanks for your other suggestions.
> In 2006 when I posted to this group with a similar message I had a lot more replies (about 50 in that thread). Maybe my post was different back then or maybe the group has changed. In any case I'll go back and look at those replies as well.
> Alex

It's probably the group that has changed. The signal-to-nose-ratio is 
the same as in 2006 if you count political debates and insults as 
today's signal. ;-)

But I can only support Paul's advice, network and do projects on your 
own. I would always prefer somebody who has real hands-on experience 
than somebody who can only present many courses.
Even if the experience was "only" made at home. And create something 
presentable from your projects, document them.

-- 
Reinhardt

Alex wrote:

> hi Paul
> Thanks for responding! Great to know that you made a cable tester in the
> past. If and when I get mine working I'll let you know in case you'd like
> to know more about it. Thanks for your other suggestions. In 2006 when I
> posted to this group with a similar message I had a lot more replies
> (about 50 in that thread). Maybe my post was different back then or maybe
> the group has changed. In any case I'll go back and look at those replies
> as well. Alex

I am surprised that you hadn't got a few more responses to your post. Mine 
was a clunky affair, made lots of noise during testing. It was back in the 
early 70's though. Next project was a 6800 based controller (such a 
different challenge).

Hope there was good relevant advice in those earlier messages. I hope you 
are building a network of contacts as these will prove useful at some point.

You say you are in an automotive plant at present. That is a wonderful 
environment for embedded control systems of all kinds. My apprenticeship was 
in such a facility. I was attached to the Electronics Section which was part 
of the Facilities Department. I was quickly made responsible for organising 
Production Line Safety Devices, Emergency Lighting, Electro-coat Power 
Supplies (500V/1500A), round plant communications and inter-plant 
communications, and some of the build data transmission systems to the 
production line. (not so many robotics in those early days). You have to get 
good at looking out worthwhile automation of tasks and knowing how to build 
the business case for them (to show management the worth of ideas you are 
generating). That will involve knowing how you ask the company for money for 
projects, but they usually have forms that need to be filled for that sort 
of thing.
 
-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

hi Paul
> That is a wonderful environment for embedded control systems of all kinds.

Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I can make full use of it. I didnt know there was a 6800. I worked on the 68000 (another zero) during my bachelors for class projects. I didnt build anything exciting. It was just learning exercises for basic interfacing with the memory and stuff.
Thats great that you were made responsible for all of those things. Sounds like you were great at what you did. I hope to be as good as that. I'll continue to be on the lookout for what else I can do.

I have a 3 day break coming up. Hopefully I can make some progress on the cable tester project. Speaking of which I wonder how I should go about it and if I should use Arduino or something else. This is going to be a big project. Hopefully I can complete it.
That reminds me I need to look at the company's website and see what languages/environments they use for embedded development and I can start learning those and use those in the project.


Hi Reinhardt, thanks for confirming Paul's message! 

Alex









On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:01:10 AM UTC-6, Paul E Bennett wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> 
> > hi Paul
> > Thanks for responding! Great to know that you made a cable tester in the
> > past. If and when I get mine working I'll let you know in case you'd like
> > to know more about it. Thanks for your other suggestions. In 2006 when I
> > posted to this group with a similar message I had a lot more replies
> > (about 50 in that thread). Maybe my post was different back then or maybe
> > the group has changed. In any case I'll go back and look at those replies
> > as well. Alex
> 
> I am surprised that you hadn't got a few more responses to your post. Mine 
> was a clunky affair, made lots of noise during testing. It was back in the 
> early 70's though. Next project was a 6800 based controller (such a 
> different challenge).
> 
> Hope there was good relevant advice in those earlier messages. I hope you 
> are building a network of contacts as these will prove useful at some point.
> 
> You say you are in an automotive plant at present. That is a wonderful 
> environment for embedded control systems of all kinds. My apprenticeship was 
> in such a facility. I was attached to the Electronics Section which was part 
> of the Facilities Department. I was quickly made responsible for organising 
> Production Line Safety Devices, Emergency Lighting, Electro-coat Power 
> Supplies (500V/1500A), round plant communications and inter-plant 
> communications, and some of the build data transmission systems to the 
> production line. (not so many robotics in those early days). You have to get 
> good at looking out worthwhile automation of tasks and knowing how to build 
> the business case for them (to show management the worth of ideas you are 
> generating). That will involve knowing how you ask the company for money for 
> projects, but they usually have forms that need to be filled for that sort 
> of thing.
>  
> -- 
> ********************************************************************
> Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
> ********************************************************************

On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:32:37 PM UTC-8, Alex wrote:
> hi Paul
> > That is a wonderful environment for embedded control systems of all kinds.
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I can make full use of it. I didnt know there was a 6800. 

Then you probably also missed the 6809 and the great 68 vs. 86 debates.  Nowaday, it's ARM vs. x86 or Android vs. iPhone.

Which bring me to my main complaint, things are too complicated.  My mom wants a mobile phone, but she is smart phone challenged.  She cannot even get through the standby click and swipe action.  She can make use of some pre-programmed features, but not a full feature Android.  What we need is a single function dumb phone with hard on-off switch, perhaps like a phone cradle or something with on/off hock.

This would be a good project for someone to learn and tackle the issues.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:43:52 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:32:37 PM UTC-8, Alex wrote:
>> hi Paul
>> > That is a wonderful environment for embedded control systems of all kinds.
>> 
>> Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I can make full use of it. I didnt know there was a 6800. 
>
>Then you probably also missed the 6809 and the great 68 vs. 86 debates.  Nowaday, it's ARM vs. x86 or Android vs. iPhone.
>
>Which bring me to my main complaint, things are too complicated.  My mom wants a mobile phone, but she is smart phone challenged.  She cannot even get through the standby click and swipe action.  She can make use of some pre-programmed features, but not a full feature Android.  What we need is a single function dumb phone with hard on-off switch, perhaps like a phone cradle or something with on/off hock.
>
>This would be a good project for someone to learn and tackle the issues.


There are several phones out there targeting the senior market.
Jitterbug appears to be one advertising pretty much just that set of
features (big numbers on the screen, big buttons, simple, etc.).  I've
never used one, but they do seem to target just that audience.

Amusing anecdote: A few years ago I sent my mom to Europe to visit her
family.  Since she was going to be traveling alone, I rented her a
phone that would work there, but didn't buy here any minutes.  Just
emergency usage, like her cell phone here.  Anyway, she gets there,
and calls me that she's arrived.  The call goes to voicemail, which is
fine, she can leave a message.  Unfortunately, after the message, she
just turns the phone over on the kitchen table.  So the call continues
until my voicemail system times out the message after 15 minutes, or
so.  Yes, at 95 cents a minute, I have 15 minutes of kitchen noises on
my voice mail.  Even better, half an hour later she calls again, again
voicemail, again 15 minutes of kitchen noises.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:30:53 AM UTC-8, robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:43:52 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> >On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:32:37 PM UTC-8, Alex wrote:
> >> hi Paul
> >> > That is a wonderful environment for embedded control systems of all kinds. Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I can make full use of it. I didnt know there was a 6800. 
> >
> >Then you probably also missed the 6809 and the great 68 vs. 86 debates.  Nowaday, it's ARM vs. x86 or Android vs. iPhone.
> >
> >Which bring me to my main complaint, things are too complicated.  My mom wants a mobile phone, but she is smart phone challenged.  She cannot even get through the standby click and swipe action.  She can make use of some pre-programmed features, but not a full feature Android.  What we need is a single function dumb phone with hard on-off switch, perhaps like a phone cradle or something with on/off hock.
> >
> >This would be a good project for someone to learn and tackle the issues.
> 
> 
> There are several phones out there targeting the senior market. Jitterbug appears to be one advertising pretty much just that set of features (big numbers on the screen, big buttons, simple, etc.).  I've never used one, but they do seem to target just that audience.

Most of them have micro USB charging, which is another problem on it's own.  Yes, the connector is supposed to go in one way.  But people found way to jam it in the other way.  I have seen physically damaged plug and port to confirm it.  What we need is 4 pins coaxial usb plug that can't go wrong.  Or big contact pads like cordless phones.

> Amusing anecdote: A few years ago I sent my mom to Europe to visit her family.  Since she was going to be traveling alone, I rented her a phone that would work there, but didn't buy here any minutes.  Just emergency usage, like her cell phone here.  Anyway, she gets there, and calls me that she's arrived.  The call goes to voicemail, which is fine, she can leave a message.  Unfortunately, after the message, she just turns the phone over on the kitchen table.  So the call continues until my voicemail system times out the message after 15 minutes, or so.  Yes, at 95 cents a minute, I have 15 minutes of kitchen noises on my voice mail.  Even better, half an hour later she calls again, again voicemail, again 15 minutes of kitchen noises.

Your mom has a good point.  Why can the phone be smart enough to turn itself off when facing down on the table?  A simple photo sensor can do the trick.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:52:44 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:30:53 AM UTC-8, robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:43:52 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:32:37 PM UTC-8, Alex wrote:
>> >> hi Paul
>> >> > That is a wonderful environment for embedded control systems of all kinds. Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I can make full use of it. I didnt know there was a 6800. 
>> >
>> >Then you probably also missed the 6809 and the great 68 vs. 86 debates.  Nowaday, it's ARM vs. x86 or Android vs. iPhone.
>> >
>> >Which bring me to my main complaint, things are too complicated.  My mom wants a mobile phone, but she is smart phone challenged.  She cannot even get through the standby click and swipe action.  She can make use of some pre-programmed features, but not a full feature Android.  What we need is a single function dumb phone with hard on-off switch, perhaps like a phone cradle or something with on/off hock.
>> >
>> >This would be a good project for someone to learn and tackle the issues.
>> 
>> 
>> There are several phones out there targeting the senior market. Jitterbug appears to be one advertising pretty much just that set of features (big numbers on the screen, big buttons, simple, etc.).  I've never used one, but they do seem to target just that audience.
>
>Most of them have micro USB charging, which is another problem on it's own.  Yes, the connector is supposed to go in one way.  But people found way to jam it in the other way.  I have seen physically damaged plug and port to confirm it.  What we need is 4 pins coaxial usb plug that can't go wrong.  


Probably impossible to make small enough.  And people will figure out
a way to break that too.


>Or big contact pads like cordless phones.


If we're going to require special hardware, why not go wireless?

Besides, then we have the charger connection standards (you're going
to have trouble selling something with a non-micro-USB charging port
in Europe, for example).


>> Amusing anecdote: A few years ago I sent my mom to Europe to visit her family.  Since she was going to be traveling alone, I rented her a phone that would work there, but didn't buy here any minutes.  Just emergency usage, like her cell phone here.  Anyway, she gets there, and calls me that she's arrived.  The call goes to voicemail, which is fine, she can leave a message.  Unfortunately, after the message, she just turns the phone over on the kitchen table.  So the call continues until my voicemail system times out the message after 15 minutes, or so.  Yes, at 95 cents a minute, I have 15 minutes of kitchen noises on my voice mail.  Even better, half an hour later she calls again, again voicemail, again 15 minutes of kitchen noises.
>
>Your mom has a good point.  Why can the phone be smart enough to turn itself off when facing down on the table?  A simple photo sensor can do the trick.


More than a few smartphones can do that, but a photocell would likely
be rather difficult to make even semi-reliable - exactly what would it
be looking for?  The usual smartphone technique is to use the
accelerometers to detect the phone being turned over, and then being
left stationary for some time.

And most cordless phones need you to hit the "end" button too.