Choice of support forums

Hi Martin,

On 1/5/2015 9:02 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 03/01/2015 19:04, Don Y wrote:

>> With the obsolescence of USENET in favor of more "portal-based" forums,
>
> On the plus side significantly better SNR and moderation to keep the whole
> thing on topic. Experts that have been driven away from Usenet still reside in
> various specialist forums or mailing lists.

Agreed.  Even non-corporate forums tend to have more effective policing, etc.

> On the minus side you end up with yet another password and userid for each and
> every forum and you have to remember to go and look at it.

The UID/credential issue can be automated with many browsers.  But, you
*do* need to remember to "go look at it".  There is no way that "it"
can tap you on the shoulder if something significant has transpired
(e.g., auto manufacturers mail recall letters to owners instead of
expecting those owners to periodically check a corporate web site!)

Waiting to get bitten by a problem (and *hoping* you can realize that
you ARE encountering a problem) is not the way I like to do things!  :>
Do you hand-verify all of the computations that your spreadsheet performs?
It might be handy to get NOTIFIED by someone who has already stumbled on
this instead of retroactively LOOKING for such a report after you
*suspect* a problem ("Oh, yeah... that was reported 3 months ago!")

>> what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of corporate-sponsored
>> (and hosted?) forums vs. more "independent" approaches?  I've seen
>
> Disadvantage of corporate sponsored ones is that posts criticising defects in
> their products won't appear or if they do won't last long.

I've seen this also true of independent sites.  You're at the mercy of the
"entity" controlling the resource.  I think it's a reflection of the
"corporate maturity/confidence" in how they address public gripes.  I.e.,
a disgruntled customer can gripe in any of several other ways (social
media, mouth-to-mouth, blog, etc.).  So, running from criticism is a
Chicken Little approach, IMO.

>> good (and bad) examples of each and can only conclude that the "players"
>> are the deciding factor (?)
>
> There have to be enough people reading it for it to work at all.

Or, the *right* people reading (and responding)!  E.g., a low traffic
forum/list can be very effective if each question posted receives an
ACCURATE reply -- no need for 20 messages if 1 will suffice.

One real issue is forcing folks to search archives and FAQs *before*
posting.  Answering the same question repeatedly (asked by different
people) can jade an otherwise cooperative "forum member".  I.e.,
*ding* the querant and reply with "read the FAQ" (etc.).  This
should serve notice that laziness will get no response and,
ultimately, cost them their access to the resource!

On 05.1.2015 г. 19:14, Don Y wrote:
> Hi Dimiter,
>
> On 1/4/2015 5:35 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>
> [attrs elided]
>
>>>>> Said another way, what sorts of "support venues" would you consider
>>>>> appropriate for *your* products -- and *why* (esp why *not*!).
>>>>
>>>> Our customers are not that many, I wish they were in the thousands so
>>>> I had to organize something like that. Then our devices are typically
>>>> used by end users, not developers - where the user manual tends to
>>>> do a good enough job. For the few cases when people have some issue
>>>> usually it can be resolved one on one over the net, being able to
>>>> see the *same* screen at both sides (the netMCA working over RFB/VNC)
>>>> makes things quite easy.
>>>
>>> Understood.  I was *going* to conclude that the "quality" of user
>>> probably
>>> plays a role in the extent to which "support" is required (wrt the level
>>> of familiarity with the topics -- newbies can get by with folks who know
>>> where the POWER switch is located!  :-/ ).
>>
>> The quality of our users is typically fairly high, those are people
>> who have been dealing with systems a lot less friendly than ours.
>> Some (many?) of them have no basic networking knowledge so the
>> main obstacle we had initially was until their unit would come
>> online..... Since we started to supply a router with it,
>> prepared such they could have a "quick start" - just plug things
>> and have them running (e.g. the router would assign their device
>> a known IP address, would forward ports it has to forward so
>> whatever server part on the device is running will be accessible
>> from the outside etc.) this problem largely disappeared.
>
> Makes sense.  The effort (on your part) to provide that "up front"
> is probably saved many times over vs. trying to talk them through the
> process when they have problems.
>
> When they ultimately contact you for an issue, is it something that
> you can quickly resolve:
>      "Click here, type this in there, then set the detector..."
> or is it a "problem solving" experience for you, as well?

Well it is hard to draw a line but I guess we have both. Obviously
more of the kind "click here type in that" of course but sometimes
we have had real problems, e.g. one of our units had to work with
a sample changer - both had never seen each other prior to delivery.
Simple as it is - pulse an output to "change sample", wait for "ready"
then go ahead - I had to change the pulse duration so the changer
would see it, mine was too short initially (I had made it 1mS or so
by assumption, turned out it had to be a lot longer). Took me an
hour or so, IIRC I made the pulse duration command line programmable.

> ....
>> Oh come on, this is a non-issue. If the browser on a phone cannot deal
>> with what is going to be posted on the list then what will they use.
>
> Agreed.  I suspect there is some other motivation for pestering me
> about this (perhaps trying to drag me back onto the payroll?).

Oh if the reasoning is inexplicable from a technical point of view
it means they are just not telling you what they actually want, we
have all been there already. I guess we all have fallen for that
at one moment or another when we were younger...

>> Whoa, half a ton oranges :D :D (well, kilogram but sounds pretty huge
>> to me :-) ).
>
> Yeah, they're pretty big.  Lemons were big as well -- 60 pounds off the
> little 3 ft tree!  No idea what we'll do with all the juice when it
> "grows up"!

That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
then invent it :D ).

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff, TGI             http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/5/2015 7:05 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 05.1.2015 г. 19:14, Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/4/2015 5:35 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

>>> The quality of our users is typically fairly high, those are people

8<

>> When they ultimately contact you for an issue, is it something that
>> you can quickly resolve:
>>      "Click here, type this in there, then set the detector..."
>> or is it a "problem solving" experience for you, as well?
>
> Well it is hard to draw a line but I guess we have both. Obviously
> more of the kind "click here type in that" of course but sometimes

So, RTFM would have solved their problem?

> we have had real problems, e.g. one of our units had to work with
> a sample changer - both had never seen each other prior to delivery.
> Simple as it is - pulse an output to "change sample", wait for "ready"
> then go ahead - I had to change the pulse duration so the changer
> would see it, mine was too short initially (I had made it 1mS or so
> by assumption, turned out it had to be a lot longer). Took me an
> hour or so, IIRC I made the pulse duration command line programmable.

OK.  So, things that are "unique" to particular applications.  Things
you (as designer) may not have envisioned *when* you made the design.
These are the sorts of things (I suspect) that other users would
benefit from "overhearing".  I.e., preemptively solve their problem
before it results in a "support" call/email.

And, also plant ideas in their heads for other uses to which your device
could be applied -- thereby increasing its perceived utility.

>>> Oh come on, this is a non-issue. If the browser on a phone cannot deal
>>> with what is going to be posted on the list then what will they use.
>>
>> Agreed.  I suspect there is some other motivation for pestering me
>> about this (perhaps trying to drag me back onto the payroll?).
>
> Oh if the reasoning is inexplicable from a technical point of view
> it means they are just not telling you what they actually want, we
> have all been there already. I guess we all have fallen for that
> at one moment or another when we were younger...

Yes.  As I said, I expect they just want me back on the payroll so
they have an "expert on hand" -- for *other* purposes.  Had there been
a *genuine* problem with my implementation (or, something that I had
"overlooked" like the utility of automatically resampling JPEG attachments)
then I would be far more receptive to their "complaint".  But, this looks
like a smokescreen.

Still, to be fair, I can reply with an "expert" recommendation of other
alternatives that *they* can pursue -- if they think the mailing list
is ineffective (for whatever "nonsensical?" reason)

>>> Whoa, half a ton oranges :D :D (well, kilogram but sounds pretty huge
>>> to me :-) ).
>>
>> Yeah, they're pretty big.  Lemons were big as well -- 60 pounds off the
>> little 3 ft tree!  No idea what we'll do with all the juice when it
>> "grows up"!
>
> That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
> neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
> then invent it :D ).

I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea.  I think I've already consumed more
than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
weeks since I juiced them!

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> writes:

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2015 12:04:25 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>With the obsolescence of USENET in favor of more "portal-based" forums,
>>what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of corporate-sponsored
>>(and hosted?) forums vs. more "independent" approaches?  I've seen
>>good (and bad) examples of each and can only conclude that the "players"
>>are the deciding factor (?)
>
> Corporate forums are specialized. Here, you can ask general questions,
> like about architectures, circuits, parts, equipment, techniques,
> history.
>
> There are several "web forums" that are directly ripped from SED, with
> ads. You can post something silly here, and then google it and see
> where it winds up. Teal elephant sidesaddle.

Dave Jones' forum is very good and very active.

-- 

John Devereux

Don Y wrote:
> 
> Hi Dimiter,
> 
> On 1/5/2015 7:05 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> >
> > That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
> > neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
> > then invent it :D ).
> 
> I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea.  I think I've already consumed more
> than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
> weeks since I juiced them!


   You could always donate some of them to a food bank, before letting
any go to waste. :)


-- 
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 1/8/2015 1:16 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> On 1/5/2015 7:05 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>
>>> That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
>>> neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
>>> then invent it :D ).
>>
>> I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea.  I think I've already consumed more
>> than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
>> weeks since I juiced them!
>
>     You could always donate some of them to a food bank, before letting
> any go to waste. :)

Citrus *never* goes to waste, here!  :>

[Well, actually, we end up with way more limes -- about 400 count
per crop -- than we can ever use.  But, we bring those to the folks in
the "Laundry" at a local hospital.  The workers there apparently love
them!  Cut a wedge and let it sit *on* their teeth while they work.
Apparently destroys their tooth enamel in the process...]

A friend gifted us a "Juicerator" many years ago:

<http://www.amazon.com/6001-Juicerator-550-Watt-Extractor-Stainless/dp/B0028RXDFM>

(note the juicer attachment, below)

It makes (relatively) quick work of juicing the buggers.  OTOH, when
you have several trees and several gallons of juice for each tree,
you can quickly grow weary of the process!  Thankfully, each crop
comes due at slightly different times.  E.g., the Valencia's won't
be ready to juice for another month or so...

There are some groups who will harvest (citrus) fruit that you'd
otherwise leave on the tree.  But, IME, if you aren't planning on
harvesting the fruit, you probably haven't taken good care of it
through the growing season, anyway.

E.g., our limes are bigger than store-bought *lemons*; lemons bigger
than oranges; oranges bigger than grapefruit; etc.  Neighbors, OTOH,
have little *dinky* fruit...  why bother growing it if you aren't
going to grow it *well*?

<frown>

Op Sun, 04 Jan 2015 18:33:44 +0100 schreef Joerg  
<news@analogconsultants.com>:
> Les Cargill wrote:
>> Don Y wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2015 12:27 PM, Lanarcam wrote:
>>
>>> - Exploitability
>> Who cares? Become adept at filtering.
>>
>>> - Cost
>> Pay for your NNTP link, then stop worrying. I feel for people trying to
>> monetize fora, but not too much.
>
> I pay all of $13 (10 Euros) per year for the news server. For that I do
> not need to run any kind of filtering because they already take care of
> hosing off spam.

I pay zero for the same amount of spam.  ;)
http://aioe.org/



-- 
(Remove the obvious prefix to reply privately.)
Gemaakt met Opera's e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Don Y wrote:
> 
> On 1/8/2015 1:16 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >> On 1/5/2015 7:05 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
> >>> neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
> >>> then invent it :D ).
> >>
> >> I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea.  I think I've already consumed more
> >> than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
> >> weeks since I juiced them!
> >
> >     You could always donate some of them to a food bank, before letting
> > any go to waste. :)
> 
> Citrus *never* goes to waste, here!  :>
> 
> [Well, actually, we end up with way more limes -- about 400 count
> per crop -- than we can ever use.  But, we bring those to the folks in
> the "Laundry" at a local hospital.  The workers there apparently love
> them!  Cut a wedge and let it sit *on* their teeth while they work.
> Apparently destroys their tooth enamel in the process...]
> 
> A friend gifted us a "Juicerator" many years ago:
> 
> <http://www.amazon.com/6001-Juicerator-550-Watt-Extractor-Stainless/dp/B0028RXDFM>
> 
> (note the juicer attachment, below)
> 
> It makes (relatively) quick work of juicing the buggers.  OTOH, when
> you have several trees and several gallons of juice for each tree,
> you can quickly grow weary of the process!  Thankfully, each crop
> comes due at slightly different times.  E.g., the Valencia's won't
> be ready to juice for another month or so...
> 
> There are some groups who will harvest (citrus) fruit that you'd
> otherwise leave on the tree.  But, IME, if you aren't planning on
> harvesting the fruit, you probably haven't taken good care of it
> through the growing season, anyway.
> 
> E.g., our limes are bigger than store-bought *lemons*; lemons bigger
> than oranges; oranges bigger than grapefruit; etc.  Neighbors, OTOH,
> have little *dinky* fruit...  why bother growing it if you aren't
> going to grow it *well*?
> 
> <frown>


   IOW: Go big, or go home! :)


-- 
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Hi Don,

On 06.1.2015 г. 05:27, Don Y wrote:
> Hi Dimiter,
>
> On 1/5/2015 7:05 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> ......
>
>>>> Whoa, half a ton oranges :D :D (well, kilogram but sounds pretty huge
>>>> to me :-) ).
>>>
>>> Yeah, they're pretty big.  Lemons were big as well -- 60 pounds off the
>>> little 3 ft tree!  No idea what we'll do with all the juice when it
>>> "grows up"!
>>
>> That is a lot indeed, you can make a lemonade party for the
>> neighbourhood I guess (if there is no such thing like a lemonade party
>> then invent it :D ).
>
> I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea.  I think I've already consumed more
> than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
> weeks since I juiced them!
>

Oh you are lucky we live at the other side of the globe, I would have
insisted on a lemonade party were we somewhat closer :D .

Dimiter

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 14:03:26 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>
>Keep warm.  We harvested the Navel oranges a few days ago (weather turned
>cold enough to put the fruit at jeopardy).  Thankfully (?) a small crop
>(in terms of NUMBERS).  But, they're all *huge* -- at least a pound (500g)
>each!  So, they effectively take up a lot of space regardless...
>
>--don

I just finished installing my spiffy new waterproof 12-volt LED
RatLamp (tm).

The critter had been skinning our Meyer lemons

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG

and the light seems to keep them away.






-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com