A5 vendors

Hi David,

Apologies for the delay in replying -- folks in town for a "status meeting"
have kept me tied up "playing host" for the past week.  It's always amusing
how these always happen *here* when there are several feet of snow on the
ground "there"!  :>

[OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]

So "playing host" for ~12 hours/day doesn't leave me with much energy for
email/news/etc. afterwards (esp having to prepare demos on most days).  April
will be Vegas -- or SoCal -- so that will be a lot less stressful for me!

Watch your mail -- I'll try to reply in the next few days...   My InBox
overfloweth  :-/

On 08/02/15 20:25, Don Y wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Apologies for the delay in replying -- folks in town for a "status meeting"
> have kept me tied up "playing host" for the past week.  It's always amusing
> how these always happen *here* when there are several feet of snow on the
> ground "there"!  :>
>
> [OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
> Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]
>
> So "playing host" for ~12 hours/day doesn't leave me with much energy for
> email/news/etc. afterwards (esp having to prepare demos on most days).
> April
> will be Vegas -- or SoCal -- so that will be a lot less stressful for me!
>
> Watch your mail -- I'll try to reply in the next few days...   My InBox
> overfloweth  :-/
>

No problem - if you want to carry on the discussion and think there is 
more we can get out of it, that's fine.  But I know how it is when you 
are "out of the loop" for a week and things pile up - don't prioritise a 
reply here just for my sake.

mvh.,

David

On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:25:44 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>[OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
>Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]

Some of it melted - only ~40 inches in the open areas.  Drifts and
piles are higher of course.

And there's no need to exaggerate ... we're only expecting another 12
or so out of *this* storm.

George

Hi David,

On 2/8/2015 2:39 PM, David Brown wrote:

> No problem - if you want to carry on the discussion and think there is more we
> can get out of it, that's fine.  But I know how it is when you are "out of the
> loop" for a week and things pile up - don't prioritise a reply here just for my
> sake.

Yeah, "taking time off" is one of those annoying contradictions:  take it
off *now*, but MAKE IT UP *later*!  (something about "free lunches" comes
to mind  :-/ )  I see I have another laptop to "fix".  (sigh)  Like TV's,
never let folks know you can "fix" computers!  :-/

OTOH, I'm learning there is real value to "looking away" from time to time.
There was a van Vogt line that came to mind about vision being clearest
just after the eye shifts position... I'll have to go looking for it
(I know which of three books that likely contains it -- all of which
are due to be reread soon, regardless!  :> )

Hi George,

On 2/8/2015 8:33 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:25:44 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>
>> [OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
>> Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]
>
> Some of it melted - only ~40 inches in the open areas.  Drifts and
> piles are higher of course.
>
> And there's no need to exaggerate ... we're only expecting another 12
> or so out of *this* storm.

Any worse than `78?  It *seems* like you've, at least, had "advanced warning"
of all of these recent storms.  IIRC, in `78 it was just "we're expecting some
snow, tomorrow" and, thus, caught everyone by surprise with the intensity of
that ~day-and-a-half of snow (followed by rain at the worst possible time/temp)

I think 80, here, today...  <grin>

On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:45:13 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>Hi George,
>
>On 2/8/2015 8:33 PM, George Neuner wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:25:44 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
>>> Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]
>>
>> Some of it melted - only ~40 inches in the open areas.  Drifts and
>> piles are higher of course.
>>
>> And there's no need to exaggerate ... we're only expecting another 12
>> or so out of *this* storm.
>
>Any worse than `78?  It *seems* like you've, at least, had "advanced warning"
>of all of these recent storms.  IIRC, in `78 it was just "we're expecting some
>snow, tomorrow" and, thus, caught everyone by surprise with the intensity of
>that ~day-and-a-half of snow (followed by rain at the worst possible time/temp)

Depends who you talk to.  The snow fall from the 1st storm 10 days ago
actually was higher than 1978:  34in vs 28.  But unlike '78 we didn't
get an ice storm on the back end.

We got another 20in from a second storm 4 days later, plus some
flurries almost every day.  We had 2 days of melting temps which cut
down the pack a little, but now we're getting another ~15in and we're
expecting single digit temps for a while.

Biggest problem is no where to put it.  The piles are out of reach of
everything but cranes and big front loaders.  Boston is completely out
of room - all the snow lots are filled to capacity.  They are running
3 dozen snow melters 24/7 at $1K/hr.

My 42in front yard fence is buried everywhere but at the gate.  The
snow on the back deck is head high, but you might recall it's in a
hollow surrounded by a rock garden: snow blows in and stays.  The
heated bird bath that attracts the wildlife is just a sink hole in the
snow 8-)

Head high piles either side of the driveway and walk.  If I climb up
on the plow pile across the street, I can look down at my roof.

>I think 80, here, today...  <grin>

George

Hi George,

On 2/9/2015 12:36 PM, George Neuner wrote:

8<

>>> Some of it melted - only ~40 inches in the open areas.  Drifts and
>>> piles are higher of course.
>>>
>>> And there's no need to exaggerate ... we're only expecting another 12
>>> or so out of *this* storm.
>>
>> Any worse than `78?  It *seems* like you've, at least, had "advanced warning"
>> of all of these recent storms.  IIRC, in `78 it was just "we're expecting some
>> snow, tomorrow" and, thus, caught everyone by surprise with the intensity of
>> that ~day-and-a-half of snow (followed by rain at the worst possible time/temp)
>
> Depends who you talk to.  The snow fall from the 1st storm 10 days ago
> actually was higher than 1978:  34in vs 28.  But unlike '78 we didn't
> get an ice storm on the back end.

How quickly did it accumulate?  IIRC, 78 was roughly an inch per hour.
And, as I said, it didn't receive a lot of pre-storm alerts... just
"yet another snow storm" (ISTR the Civic Center died a few weeks before
that -- i.e., "snow" wasn't an unusual experience!  :> )

> We got another 20in from a second storm 4 days later, plus some
> flurries almost every day.  We had 2 days of melting temps which cut
> down the pack a little, but now we're getting another ~15in and we're
> expecting single digit temps for a while.

Melt is the worst!  Just means you'll have crunchy snow (at best)
and slick streets (more commonly!).  I used to avoid clearing the
driveway and sidewalks until long after the snow had ended so I
could see what would follow (precip/temps).

> Biggest problem is no where to put it.  The piles are out of reach of
> everything but cranes and big front loaders.  Boston is completely out
> of room - all the snow lots are filled to capacity.  They are running
> 3 dozen snow melters 24/7 at $1K/hr.

Also, I don't recall a parking ban in '78 prior to the storm.  So,
lots of vehicles with "driver-side damage"  :>

River/bay too far to haul?  Or, frozen over?

> My 42in front yard fence is buried everywhere but at the gate.  The
> snow on the back deck is head high, but you might recall it's in a
> hollow surrounded by a rock garden: snow blows in and stays.  The
> heated bird bath that attracts the wildlife is just a sink hole in the
> snow 8-)

... with ominous "steam" wafting from it!  :>

> Head high piles either side of the driveway and walk.  If I climb up
> on the plow pile across the street, I can look down at my roof.

<grin>  I miss snow.  The *only* time I would "get up early" (being
more of a night-owl) was to watch folks scurrying off to work in
that mess!  :>

Of course, the *few* times we've had anything "white" falling from
the skies *here* has sent everyone into utter PANIC!  Sheesh!  Amusing
when you consider how many of them are "winter visitors" who should
be *familiar* with the stuff!  :-/

[Perhaps it's not INCONVENIENCE/COMFORT that causes them to winter
here, but, rather, a FEAR of "those flittering white things"!]

Next set of guests are coming from upper Minn.  I don't think they've
seen *freezing* temps for months!  :-/

On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 13:54:58 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>> The snow fall from the 1st storm 10 days ago
>> actually was higher than 1978:  34in vs 28.  But unlike '78 we didn't
>> get an ice storm on the back end.
>
>How quickly did it accumulate?  IIRC, 78 was roughly an inch per hour.

About the same - 34in in roughly 30 hours. But according to the news,
it was the greatest single storm snowfall since they've been keeping
records.

The 2nd storm was long duration (3 days) so the accumulation was
gradual but it still dumped another 20in on top of the 1st storm
(which hadn't melted).

This current storm dumped 10in in 4 hours this morning, but then
lightened to flurries which have continued all day and have given us
another 5-6in.


>> Biggest problem is no where to put it.  The piles are out of reach of
>> everything but cranes and big front loaders.  Boston is completely out
>> of room - all the snow lots are filled to capacity.  They are running
>> 3 dozen snow melters 24/7 at $1K/hr.
>
>Also, I don't recall a parking ban in '78 prior to the storm.  So,
>lots of vehicles with "driver-side damage"  :>

No real problems with cars being damaged.  The mayor banned travel and
opened up the Common garages and city lots so some residents could get
their cars off the street.  But there are 2.6 cars for every parking
space in Boston the side streets are parked up anyway.  Some still
haven't been plowed 10 days after the first storm.


>River/bay too far to haul?  Or, frozen over?

Illegal. Snow from the street is "dirty".  Melters put it down the
sewer so the treatment plant can process it.


>> My 42in front yard fence is buried everywhere but at the gate.  The
>> snow on the back deck is head high, but you might recall it's in a
>> hollow surrounded by a rock garden: snow blows in and stays.  The
>> heated bird bath that attracts the wildlife is just a sink hole in the
>> snow 8-)
>
>... with ominous "steam" wafting from it!  :>

I can't even get to the outlet to unplug it [breaker kills other stuff
too].  I hope there's actually water in it [snow falling in] so the
heating element doesn't burn out.


><grin>  I miss snow.  The *only* time I would "get up early" (being
>more of a night-owl) was to watch folks scurrying off to work in
>that mess!  :>
>
>Of course, the *few* times we've had anything "white" falling from
>the skies *here* has sent everyone into utter PANIC!  Sheesh!  Amusing
>when you consider how many of them are "winter visitors" who should
>be *familiar* with the stuff!  :-/
>
>[Perhaps it's not INCONVENIENCE/COMFORT that causes them to winter
>here, but, rather, a FEAR of "those flittering white things"!]

Same here.  Being originally from western NY, I don't mind snow.  I
vastly prefer snow to rain.  But eastern MA averages only 50in/yr, so
when 50in falls in a week everyone panics.

George

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 2:36:49 PM UTC-5, George Neuner wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:45:13 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
> 
> >Hi George,
> >
> >On 2/8/2015 8:33 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> >> On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:25:44 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> [OTOH, no way you'd get me to Chicago at this time of year -- let alone
> >>> Beantown!  "Another 18 inches"??   Ick!]
> >>
> >> Some of it melted - only ~40 inches in the open areas.  Drifts and
> >> piles are higher of course.
> >>
> >> And there's no need to exaggerate ... we're only expecting another 12
> >> or so out of *this* storm.
> >
> >Any worse than `78?  It *seems* like you've, at least, had "advanced warning"
> >of all of these recent storms.  IIRC, in `78 it was just "we're expecting some
> >snow, tomorrow" and, thus, caught everyone by surprise with the intensity of
> >that ~day-and-a-half of snow (followed by rain at the worst possible time/temp)
> 
> Depends who you talk to.  The snow fall from the 1st storm 10 days ago
> actually was higher than 1978:  34in vs 28.  But unlike '78 we didn't
> get an ice storm on the back end.
> 
> We got another 20in from a second storm 4 days later, plus some
> flurries almost every day.  We had 2 days of melting temps which cut
> down the pack a little, but now we're getting another ~15in and we're
> expecting single digit temps for a while.
> 
> Biggest problem is no where to put it.  The piles are out of reach of
> everything but cranes and big front loaders.  Boston is completely out
> of room - all the snow lots are filled to capacity.  They are running
> 3 dozen snow melters 24/7 at $1K/hr.
> 
> My 42in front yard fence is buried everywhere but at the gate.  The
> snow on the back deck is head high, but you might recall it's in a
> hollow surrounded by a rock garden: snow blows in and stays.  The
> heated bird bath that attracts the wildlife is just a sink hole in the
> snow 8-)
> 
> Head high piles either side of the driveway and walk.  If I climb up
> on the plow pile across the street, I can look down at my roof.
> 
> >I think 80, here, today...  <grin>
> 
> George

Boston just closed almost all mass transit for tomorrow.
Total so far from 24th Jan through today here is 65".
Another few inches likely tonight.
Good thing we don't really have to go anywhere!

The 78 storm was indeed more concentrated and shut things
down for about a week IIRC. But this round the piles are
getting too tall for the snow-blowers and plows.

We're in Acton; where are you George?

Aaarrgggg...

Hi George,

On 2/9/2015 3:11 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 13:54:58 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>
>>> The snow fall from the 1st storm 10 days ago
>>> actually was higher than 1978:  34in vs 28.  But unlike '78 we didn't
>>> get an ice storm on the back end.
>>
>> How quickly did it accumulate?  IIRC, 78 was roughly an inch per hour.
>
> About the same - 34in in roughly 30 hours. But according to the news,
> it was the greatest single storm snowfall since they've been keeping
> records.
>
> The 2nd storm was long duration (3 days) so the accumulation was
> gradual but it still dumped another 20in on top of the 1st storm
> (which hadn't melted).
>
> This current storm dumped 10in in 4 hours this morning, but then
> lightened to flurries which have continued all day and have given us
> another 5-6in.

"Better you than me!"  :>  Actually, we had a fair bit of rain
last week (or maybe it was the week before?  Last week is a bit of a
blur for me) which probably ended up in your lawn...

>>> Biggest problem is no where to put it.  The piles are out of reach of
>>> everything but cranes and big front loaders.  Boston is completely out
>>> of room - all the snow lots are filled to capacity.  They are running
>>> 3 dozen snow melters 24/7 at $1K/hr.
>>
>> Also, I don't recall a parking ban in '78 prior to the storm.  So,
>> lots of vehicles with "driver-side damage"  :>
>
> No real problems with cars being damaged.  The mayor banned travel and
> opened up the Common garages and city lots so some residents could get
> their cars off the street.  But there are 2.6 cars for every parking
> space in Boston the side streets are parked up anyway.  Some still
> haven't been plowed 10 days after the first storm.

That was always a problem in Chicago as well.  Same reasons.  In the
burbs, you at least had lawns on which to pile it.

>> River/bay too far to haul?  Or, frozen over?
>
> Illegal. Snow from the street is "dirty".  Melters put it down the
> sewer so the treatment plant can process it.
>
>>> My 42in front yard fence is buried everywhere but at the gate.  The
>>> snow on the back deck is head high, but you might recall it's in a
>>> hollow surrounded by a rock garden: snow blows in and stays.  The
>>> heated bird bath that attracts the wildlife is just a sink hole in the
>>> snow 8-)
>>
>> ... with ominous "steam" wafting from it!  :>
>
> I can't even get to the outlet to unplug it [breaker kills other stuff
> too].  I hope there's actually water in it [snow falling in] so the
> heating element doesn't burn out.

Garden hose from 20 feet with careful consideration of angle of
incidence to the bath?  Or, a snowball fight with a stationary
target??  :>

>> <grin>  I miss snow.  The *only* time I would "get up early" (being
>> more of a night-owl) was to watch folks scurrying off to work in
>> that mess!  :>
>>
>> Of course, the *few* times we've had anything "white" falling from
>> the skies *here* has sent everyone into utter PANIC!  Sheesh!  Amusing
>> when you consider how many of them are "winter visitors" who should
>> be *familiar* with the stuff!  :-/
>>
>> [Perhaps it's not INCONVENIENCE/COMFORT that causes them to winter
>> here, but, rather, a FEAR of "those flittering white things"!]
>
> Same here.  Being originally from western NY, I don't mind snow.  I
> vastly prefer snow to rain.  But eastern MA averages only 50in/yr, so
> when 50in falls in a week everyone panics.

I can recall HUGE snowfalls as a kid.  Creating "forts" in the snow
by "digging sideways" into the stuff in the yard.  And, tall drifts
(used to *walk* onto the roof of the local grammar school -- maybe 12ft?).
Biggest pisser was the city plow and the mountains of snow/ice that
would inevitably get thrown up on each "corner" (where driveway meets
roadway) of the driveway -- creating a nice pocket for the "melt" to
accumulate... inevitably refreezing into a frozen *lake* at the base of
the driveway (significant hill).

In Chicago, snow was a welcome thing -- meant it was reasonably warm!
(-26F w/ -83 WC my personal "record"  :<   3 minute exposed flesh
warnings!  ick)

Here, rain is welcome (obvious reasons).  Amazing to see folks stop
what they are doing and watch it rain.  Or, walk out *in* it.  I
don't think I've seen anyone wear a genuine "raincoat" in all the
years I've been here -- you just *walk* in it ("Hey, it's just WATER!").

OTOH, Winter rains are the dreary sort you find in the NE and Midwest...
slow and prolonged.  Grey skies all day long  <frown>  Depressing.  Odd
to think I've lived in places where that was the *norm*!  :-/