OT very long term data storage

Somewhat off topic but...

If you are interested in the topic of very long term storage of data
(centuries) and also importantly without the risk of obsolescence,
a small company has created a process to store data on saphir
and to read it with the help of a microscope.

They have launched a crowdfunding project here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/862339253/fahrenheit-2451-preserve-your-data-for-eternity

You will also have the opportunity to laugh at a typical French
accent, BTW.

I have no commercial ties with that company (www.arnano.fr)
but I support the idea.

> If you are interested in the topic of very long term storage of data
> (centuries) and also importantly without the risk of obsolescence,
> a small company has created a process to store data on sapphire
> and to read it with the help of a microscope.

What is interesting is that it presents the deliverable basically as a 
decoration.  I would think the real value (investment payoff) of 
reliable long term storage is with banks, military, and government. 
Maybe the technology doesn't scale.  I don't know.

I see several problems with their sales pitch:

1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can alter it.

JJS

On 6/17/2015 3:50 PM, John Speth wrote:
>> If you are interested in the topic of very long term storage of data
>> (centuries) and also importantly without the risk of obsolescence,
>> a small company has created a process to store data on sapphire
>> and to read it with the help of a microscope.
>
> What is interesting is that it presents the deliverable basically as a
> decoration.  I would think the real value (investment payoff) of
> reliable long term storage is with banks, military, and government.
> Maybe the technology doesn't scale.  I don't know.
>
> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>
> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can alter it.

Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?

My vote is for paper tape using acid free paper,  lol

-- 

Rick

>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>
>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can
>> alter it.
>
> Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?

Think huge amounts of numeric and text data, not pictorial data.  You 
can't reconstruct that kind of data visually.

JJS

Le 17/06/2015 23:03, John Speth a écrit :
>>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>>
>>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can
>>> alter it.
>>
>> Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?
>
> Think huge amounts of numeric and text data, not pictorial data.  You
> can't reconstruct that kind of data visually.
>
You can scan it, with your eye or with a tool.

On 18.6.2015 г. 00:09, Lanarcam wrote:
> Le 17/06/2015 23:03, John Speth a écrit :
>>>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>>>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>>>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can
>>>> alter it.
>>>
>>> Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?
>>
>> Think huge amounts of numeric and text data, not pictorial data.  You
>> can't reconstruct that kind of data visually.
>>
> You can scan it, with your eye or with a tool.
>
>
>

Yes, I think the whole point of really long term data storage is to
make it as universally readable as possible, never mind the amount
of effort this takes - just make it possible. If the giant frogs
inhabiting the planet a few (thousands of?) millennia from now cannot
figure it out then it is their problem. Perhaps the supersnails
after them will manage it, whoever.

Commercially I am not sure this can be made successful but I guess
the knowledge humanity has gathered is worth saving on something
really robust.

If it lives up to their promise, that is. From what we know paper
(may be exactly as Rick suggested, punched acid free...) is perhaps
still our best bet, let us hope these guys manage to beat that.
Then the frogs would be in real trouble deciphering ASCII tapes
(but should be possible, many years ago I deciphered the
excellon drill format by looking at a punched tape I had access
to - and these frogs are supposed to be much smarter than me :-) ).

Dimiter

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:03:52 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 6/17/2015 3:50 PM, John Speth wrote:
>>> If you are interested in the topic of very long term storage of data
>>> (centuries) and also importantly without the risk of obsolescence,
>>> a small company has created a process to store data on sapphire
>>> and to read it with the help of a microscope.
>>
>> What is interesting is that it presents the deliverable basically as a
>> decoration.  I would think the real value (investment payoff) of
>> reliable long term storage is with banks, military, and government.
>> Maybe the technology doesn't scale.  I don't know.
>>
>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>
>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can alter it.
>
>Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?
>
>My vote is for paper tape using acid free paper,  lol

Paper tape is nice, since you do need any special reader. In the 7 bit
ASCII days I was quite proficient reading texts from paper tapes,
Latin1 or UTF-8 would of course be much harder.

On 6/17/2015 11:34 AM, Lanarcam wrote:
> Somewhat off topic but...
>
> If you are interested in the topic of very long term storage of data
> (centuries) and also importantly without the risk of obsolescence,
> a small company has created a process to store data on saphir
> and to read it with the help of a microscope.
>
> They have launched a crowdfunding project here:
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/862339253/fahrenheit-2451-preserve-your-data-for-eternity
>
> You will also have the opportunity to laugh at a typical French
> accent, BTW.
>
> I have no commercial ties with that company (www.arnano.fr)
> but I support the idea.

Tonsured monks seem to have done very well at this in the past.
And, without any "special technology".

On 6/17/2015 5:03 PM, John Speth wrote:
>>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>>
>>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can
>>> alter it.
>>
>> Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?
>
> Think huge amounts of numeric and text data, not pictorial data.  You
> can't reconstruct that kind of data visually.

You mean by a human, right?  Since when are microscopes limited to humans?

-- 

Rick

On 6/17/2015 5:30 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 18.6.2015 г. 00:09, Lanarcam wrote:
>> Le 17/06/2015 23:03, John Speth a écrit :
>>>>> I see several problems with their sales pitch:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Most people have no interest in storage beyond their deaths.
>>>>> 2. The product is not immune to obsolete reader technologies.
>>>>> 3. Nothing is unalterable.  They can alter it so other things can
>>>>> alter it.
>>>>
>>>> Uh, when do you expect microscopes will become obsolete?
>>>
>>> Think huge amounts of numeric and text data, not pictorial data.  You
>>> can't reconstruct that kind of data visually.
>>>
>> You can scan it, with your eye or with a tool.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, I think the whole point of really long term data storage is to
> make it as universally readable as possible, never mind the amount
> of effort this takes - just make it possible. If the giant frogs
> inhabiting the planet a few (thousands of?) millennia from now cannot
> figure it out then it is their problem. Perhaps the supersnails
> after them will manage it, whoever.
>
> Commercially I am not sure this can be made successful but I guess
> the knowledge humanity has gathered is worth saving on something
> really robust.

That sounds like a pretty big assumption to me!  I wonder if maybe the 
giant frogs really could master the technology to read the sapphire, but 
just don't care about the human "knowledge" that destroyed the earth's 
ecosystem.  (picture the torch of the statue of liberty rising from the 
waters)


> If it lives up to their promise, that is. From what we know paper
> (may be exactly as Rick suggested, punched acid free...) is perhaps
> still our best bet, let us hope these guys manage to beat that.
> Then the frogs would be in real trouble deciphering ASCII tapes
> (but should be possible, many years ago I deciphered the
> excellon drill format by looking at a punched tape I had access
> to - and these frogs are supposed to be much smarter than me :-) ).

Hmmmm... I can't hold back... yet another assumption, but likely valid. 
  Oh, you mean the frogs of the future...

-- 

Rick