Minimal and low-cost embedded Linux

Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> writes:
> The Renesas RZ comes close, up to 10MB on-chip RAM. But no flash, just 
> add a tiny QSPI FLASH. Never used them, but they look interesting.

You also need an MMU, and doing a Linux port if there's not already one
is a substantial task.  Plus it's a pretty expensive part IIRC.  

Also the OP wants to use a binary-only library so it's unclear what CPUs
it's available for.  Might be ARM-only.  If not, there are some cheap
Ingenic MIPS-based chips that run Linux.  See the hardware for the Ben
Nanonote though it's dated by now.

Il 10/12/2015 09:11, Paul Rubin ha scritto:
> [...]
 > This means porting to a minimal bare
> metal system might be messy and not gain you much.

I don't understand why you arrived to this conclusion.

On 2015-12-10 Paul Rubin wrote in comp.arch.embedded:
> Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> writes:
>> The Renesas RZ comes close, up to 10MB on-chip RAM. But no flash, just 
>> add a tiny QSPI FLASH. Never used them, but they look interesting.
>
> You also need an MMU, and doing a Linux port if there's not already one
> is a substantial task.  Plus it's a pretty expensive part IIRC.  
>

Ah, yes no MMU, forgot about that, sorry. No not cheap IIRC as well.
The RZ/G does have MMU, but than the on-chip RAM advantage of the RZ/A
is gone. 

> Also the OP wants to use a binary-only library so it's unclear what CPUs
> it's available for.  Might be ARM-only.  If not, there are some cheap
> Ingenic MIPS-based chips that run Linux.  See the hardware for the Ben
> Nanonote though it's dated by now.

The RZ/A is a Cortex-A9 so that should not be a problem.

-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

The American Dental Association announced today that most plaque tends
to form on teeth around 4:00 PM in the afternoon.

Film at 11:00.

Il 10/12/2015 10:00, Paul Rubin ha scritto:
> Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> writes:
>> The Renesas RZ comes close, up to 10MB on-chip RAM. But no flash, just
>> add a tiny QSPI FLASH. Never used them, but they look interesting.
>
> You also need an MMU, and doing a Linux port if there's not already one
> is a substantial task.  Plus it's a pretty expensive part IIRC.
>
> Also the OP wants to use a binary-only library so it's unclear what CPUs
> it's available for.  Might be ARM-only.  If not, there are some cheap
> Ingenic MIPS-based chips that run Linux.  See the hardware for the Ben
> Nanonote though it's dated by now.

It is available only as SDK (binaries) for ARM Linux/Android (and Intel, 
Windows, ...)

There is a commercial arm (lower case) to Raspberry which will respin the PIs to your form factor etc so yes, they will sell into products.

Colin

Il giorno gioved� 10 dicembre 2015 12:52:24 UTC+1, colin_...@yahoo.com ha scritto:
> There is a commercial arm (lower case) to Raspberry which will respin the PIs to your form factor etc so yes, they will sell into products.
> 
> Colin

good to know.

Bye Jack

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:00:21 -0800, Paul Rubin
<no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> writes:
>> The Renesas RZ comes close, up to 10MB on-chip RAM. But no flash, just 
>> add a tiny QSPI FLASH. Never used them, but they look interesting.
>
>You also need an MMU, and doing a Linux port if there's not already one
>is a substantial task.  Plus it's a pretty expensive part IIRC.  

Agreed wrt porting to a new architecture.  However ...

On most supported architectures, the kernel runs fine without MMU. All
you need to do to try it is rebuild with one setting change:
CONFIG_MMU=n

However, this setting is hidden: it's not in the build config menu -
you have to edit the .config file directly.

The kernel itself works ... the problem is that far too many other
things are likely to break.  

George

On 10.12.15 20:24, George Neuner wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:00:21 -0800, Paul Rubin
> <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> writes:
>>> The Renesas RZ comes close, up to 10MB on-chip RAM. But no flash, just
>>> add a tiny QSPI FLASH. Never used them, but they look interesting.
>>
>> You also need an MMU, and doing a Linux port if there's not already one
>> is a substantial task.  Plus it's a pretty expensive part IIRC.
>
> Agreed wrt porting to a new architecture.  However ...
>
> On most supported architectures, the kernel runs fine without MMU. All
> you need to do to try it is rebuild with one setting change:
> CONFIG_MMU=n
>
> However, this setting is hidden: it's not in the build config menu -
> you have to edit the .config file directly.
>
> The kernel itself works ... the problem is that far too many other
> things are likely to break.
>
> George


The first thing coming to mind is mapping shared libraries.

You have to re-build a bunch of helper programs and end up
with ucLinux.

-- 

-TV

Den torsdag den 10. december 2015 kl. 02.02.18 UTC+1 skrev rickman:
> On 12/9/2015 6:51 PM, pozz wrote:
> > I don't strictly need a full Linux OS, but I have to use a third-party
> > SDK released only for this OS (it is a commercial TTS engine solution).
> >
> > What is the minimal hw platform that runs a full Linux (not uClinux)? Is
> > there a single-chip (integrated Flash and RAM) solution? I don't think.
> > What is the simplest and lowes cost solution for a medium volume
> > production (1000pcs)?
> >
> > I don't need TCP/IP, USB, Ethernet, WiFi, Filesystems and so on.
> >
> > I'm not sure, but I think the TTS library doesn't use Linux services,,
> > but only C library call.
> > How do I understand which function calls are present in the pre-compiled
> > library included in SDK?
> >
> > If the library doesn't use specific Linux services, is it possible to
> > convert a pre-compiled library for ARM Linux to a pre-compiled library
> > for a bare-metal (no OS) ARM hw platform? Of course, the same ARM core.
> 
> The only thing that comes to mind is the Raspberry Pi Zero.  It is a 
> small board with the CPU and RAM using a microSD card for storage.  It 
> has HDMI and USB but no Ethernet.  A 0.1" centers pin connector provides 
> I/O.  Do you need I/O?
> 
> At a price of $5, I don't think you will find anything cheaper even if 
> you build it yourself!
> 

if he only has a binary it might not work on a pi-zero, pi-zero is the old 
armv6


-Lasse