microcontrollers in DIP or "breadboardable" form-factor

Hi all,



I am planning to get a talk on microcontrollers and embedded computing 
in our local radio-club and I am gathering some more information.


One of the things I like to show is that the developement boards are for 
.. well .. development, but once that you actually move it to an actual 
project (especially if you do not need any shields), there are other 
options that do not take up as much space (and are cheaper) then the 
arduino / mbed / whatever board.

I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for 
hobbyists.

Sofar I have  are
- AVR and PICs in DIP
- MSP430
- LPC1114 and LPC802 in DIP
- arduino mini and pro-mini  + cheap Chinese clones
- mapple mini + cheap Chinese clones


Any other options?
Any other options that connect a SMD-size MPU on a "DIP" socket?



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

Clifford,


On 24-03-16 07:14, Clifford Heath wrote:
>> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
>> hobbyists.
>> Any other options?

> Why DIP? Most hobbyists who move on from purchased modules
> just use PCB design software and learn to solder the easier
> SMD devices themselves, on boards made at cheap prototyping
> prices.
> I don't get this obsession with through-hole. It's so much
> harder than SMD.

I guess you are probably right. I just try not to scare them to much :-)

If I say they need to solder a 64-pin STM32F4, most of them will 
probably get a heart attack. :-)

Any case, if you are doing just one project, DIP does have the advantage 
you can do it on a perfboard.


 > Clifford Heath.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne

kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> writes:

> Clifford,
>
>
> On 24-03-16 07:14, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
>>> hobbyists.
>>> Any other options?
>
>> Why DIP? Most hobbyists who move on from purchased modules
>> just use PCB design software and learn to solder the easier
>> SMD devices themselves, on boards made at cheap prototyping
>> prices.
>> I don't get this obsession with through-hole. It's so much
>> harder than SMD.
>
> I guess you are probably right. I just try not to scare them to much :-)


There are lots of cheap QFP adapters on ebay etc, but someone still
have to solder them on in the first place.


>
> If I say they need to solder a 64-pin STM32F4, most of them will
> probably get a heart attack. :-)

Well a 64-pin dip must be nearly as big as some of those
discovery/embed/arduino things.

>
> Any case, if you are doing just one project, DIP does have the
> advantage you can do it on a perfboard.

I would not trust a 64pin DIP with a STM32F4 on a breadboard. These are
high-speed chips, like 168MHz. You need a proper PCB with a groundplace
and decoupling capacitors.

You could make a carrier for one with all this, with some pins brought
out etc, I am sure there are "arduino" type things like that.


-- 

John Devereux

On 2016-03-24, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote:
> On 24/03/16 22:07, kristoff wrote:
>> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
>> hobbyists.
>> Any other options?
>
> Why DIP? Most hobbyists who move on from purchased modules
> just use PCB design software and learn to solder the easier
> SMD devices themselves, on boards made at cheap prototyping
> prices.
>

Are you sure ?

It's a _lot_ easier to create something on a breadboard than it is
to go through all the turnaround time issues having a PCB created
from an external shop.

It also means you don't have to store chemicals around the home if
you can't wait for the external supplier. Design mistakes also have
a zero cost element to them when you are breadboarding.

> I don't get this obsession with through-hole. It's so much
> harder than SMD.
>

When you are doing complicated or high speed circuits, yes it is.

When you are doing smaller and low speed circuits, DIP is most
certainly easier and has a far quicker turnaround.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

On 2016-03-24, kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am planning to get a talk on microcontrollers and embedded computing 
> in our local radio-club and I am gathering some more information.
>
> One of the things I like to show is that the developement boards are for 
> .. well .. development, but once that you actually move it to an actual 
> project (especially if you do not need any shields), there are other 
> options that do not take up as much space (and are cheaper) then the 
> arduino / mbed / whatever board.
>
> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for 
> hobbyists.
>
> Sofar I have  are
> - AVR and PICs in DIP

The PIC32 works just fine for me on a breadboard so far. You MUST however
follow the guidelines in the datasheets for _ALL_ the pins which need
connecting or the MCU will not startup correctly.

I use a programmer I built and the MIPS supplied gcc toolchain with my
own headers. I don't know what commercial programmers and compilers
out there support the PIC32 in a breadboard configuration.

> - MSP430
> - LPC1114 and LPC802 in DIP

I'm not familiar with the LPC802 and Google doesn't reveal anything.
Do you mean the LPC810 ?

> - arduino mini and pro-mini  + cheap Chinese clones
> - mapple mini + cheap Chinese clones
>
>
> Any other options?
> Any other options that connect a SMD-size MPU on a "DIP" socket?
>

The above MCUs (as opposed to boards) are all the ones I know about
in PDIP. (There's always the HC08 but I moved way beyond those many
years ago and I consider the above options to be better suited than
the HC08.)

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be>:
>I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for 
>hobbyists.
>
>Sofar I have  are
>- AVR and PICs in DIP
>- MSP430
>- LPC1114 and LPC802 in DIP
>- arduino mini and pro-mini  + cheap Chinese clones
>- mapple mini + cheap Chinese clones
>
>
>Any other options?

Some ESP8266 boards are breadboard compatible, for example this one

https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/MOD-WIFI-ESP8266-DEV/open-source-hardware

"All chip signals are exposed for easier access. The board can be
soldered to PCB or used with a breadboard. "

-- 
Wir danken f&#4294967295;r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Hi John,



On 24-03-16 12:58, John Devereux wrote:
>>>> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
>>>> hobbyists.
>>>> Any other options?

>>> Why DIP? Most hobbyists who move on from purchased modules
>>> just use PCB design software and learn to solder the easier
>>> SMD devices themselves, on boards made at cheap prototyping
>>> prices.
>>> I don't get this obsession with through-hole. It's so much
>>> harder than SMD.

>> I guess you are probably right. I just try not to scare them to much :-)

> There are lots of cheap QFP adapters on ebay etc, but someone still
> have to solder them on in the first place.


That's indeed also an option.

I have just been looking for adapters with the chip already soldered on 
it. There seams to be some out there (I found a couple with a STM32s and 
also one with a PIC32, ss Simon also mentioned). but not that much.




>> If I say they need to solder a 64-pin STM32F4, most of them will
>> probably get a heart attack. :-)

> Well a 64-pin dip must be nearly as big as some of those
> discovery/embed/arduino things.

OK. Point taken :-)




>> Any case, if you are doing just one project, DIP does have the
>> advantage you can do it on a perfboard.

> I would not trust a 64pin DIP with a STM32F4 on a breadboard. These are
> high-speed chips, like 168MHz. You need a proper PCB with a groundplace
> and decoupling capacitors.

OK. Fair point.

However, concidering this audience (a radioclub), we are probably more 
looking at "controlling" things, so using a 8 bit AVR/PIC/MSP or a ARM 
M0-class device.

This is something one can do perfectly on a perfboard.


> You could make a carrier for one with all this, with some pins brought
> out etc, I am sure there are "arduino" type things like that.

Well, what would be nice is a mapple-mini type of device with either a 
STM32F1 with a DAC or a STM32F4.
Most of the devices out there use a STM32F103C8T6, the chip on the 
original mapple. That chip does not have a DAC.  :-(




Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

Hi Simon,


On 24-03-16 14:46, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
>> hobbyists.

>> Sofar I have  are
>> - AVR and PICs in DIP

> The PIC32 works just fine for me on a breadboard so far. You MUST however
> follow the guidelines in the datasheets for _ALL_ the pins which need
> connecting or the MCU will not startup correctly.


Yep. Found this "PIC32 on a DIP" project here http://www.eflightworks.net/

Interesting! :)


>> - MSP430
>> - LPC1114 and LPC802 in DIP

 > I'm not familiar with the LPC802 and Google doesn't reveal anything.
 > Do you mean the LPC810 ?

Yep.



> Simon.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> writes:
> I'm compiling a list of DIP or "breadboard-form-factor" options for
> hobbyists.  Any other options that connect a SMD-size MPU on a "DIP"
> socket?

Do you mean just the cpu, or a whole system?

No one seems to have mentioned the popular Teensy series:

  http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/index.html

The OSHChip is even smaller (DIP-16 size) and has an ARM cpu with BLE:

  http://oshchip.org/

On 2016-03-24, kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>

Hello,

>
> On 24-03-16 14:46, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> The PIC32 works just fine for me on a breadboard so far. You MUST however
>> follow the guidelines in the datasheets for _ALL_ the pins which need
>> connecting or the MCU will not startup correctly.
>
>
> Yep. Found this "PIC32 on a DIP" project here http://www.eflightworks.net/
>
> Interesting! :)
>

Just to clarify, I've got PIC32 devices which are on a mounting
header but I'm talking about the PIC32 MCUs which are directly
available in a PDIP package without needing a mounting header.

One example is the PIC32MX220F032B which doesn't have Ethernet support
but it does have USB support.

It's part of a range of PIC32MX2xx MCUs in various packages including
PDIP and there are other PDIP devices with higher Flash/SRAM capacity
than the above MCU.

Along with looking at the datasheet, make sure you check the Errata
as well just to make sure you won't get caught by anything.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world