In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid says...> > On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: > > On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: > >> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. > >> You can try out the free trial first. > >> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! > >> > >> > >> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ > >> > > The best is Altium. > > > > No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. > > Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS.What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) ;-) On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers to handle your Non-PCB stuff. If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise pin connections etc. Mark Borgerson
What is the Best PCB Layout software ? (Money no object)
Started by ●January 12, 2004
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
On 2013-01-04, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote:> In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > says... >> >> On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: >> > On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: >> >> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. >> >> You can try out the free trial first. >> >> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ >> >> >> > The best is Altium. >> > >> > No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. >> >> Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS. > > What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only > PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) > ;-):)> On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional > tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use > the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway > get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers > to handle your Non-PCB stuff. > > If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want > two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the > PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise > pin connections etc.I would think three would be the minimum (one is definitely out of the question). IMO you need a third monitor for datasheets, web browser, e-mail, and other stuff that needs to be consulted while working on the schematic/board. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Should I get locked at in the PRINCICAL'S gmail.com OFFICE today -- or have a VASECTOMY??
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
In article <094f7b9b-9adf-45d7-bc7a-d94a2a861208@googlegroups.com>, drn@nadler.com says...> > On Friday, January 4, 2013 11:43:13 AM UTC-5, Mark Borgerson wrote: > > My biggest issue with Eagle is that I have a terrible time getting other > > people's schematics to print out properly on a B/W laser printer. The > > colored lines and text look like crap and are nearly illegible on > > an 8.5x11" printout. (This may be a user-education fault on my part.) > > I often run into this problem when printing out schematics for the > > boards from Olimex. > > You can force monochrome (check "black" in print dialog for > better monochrome readability. > Alternatively, get one of these, works great and decent size output: > Canon PIXMA iX6520 Inkjet Business Printer $149.95 > The paper costs more than the printer !I've got a color laser printer---the color printout is better, but still less readable than B&W. I wish that people who put out schematics as PDF documents would offer a B&W version. The color PDF schematics are also illegible. Mark Borgerson
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
In article <kc763e$7es$2@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid says...> > On 2013-01-04, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote: > > In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > > says... > >> > >> On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: > >> > On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: > >> >> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. > >> >> You can try out the free trial first. > >> >> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ > >> >> > >> > The best is Altium. > >> > > >> > No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. > >> > >> Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS. > > > > What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only > > PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) > > ;-) > > :) > > > On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional > > tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use > > the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway > > get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers > > to handle your Non-PCB stuff. > > > > If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want > > two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the > > PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise > > pin connections etc. > > I would think three would be the minimum (one is definitely out of the > question). IMO you need a third monitor for datasheets, web browser, > e-mail, and other stuff that needs to be consulted while working on > the schematic/board.Good point. I use a second computer with a single monitor for the, emails and web browsing. The two computers are on two sides of an "L" on my bench, so I can just swivel my chair and move about a foot to type on the other keyboard. I can usually get by with two monitors for the PCB layout stuff. By the time I get to the layout stage, I'm pretty much past the data sheet stage. It generally works out as schematics on one monitor and data sheets and web on the other. At the layout stage it is layout on the larger (24") monitor and schematic on the 21" monitor. With even 1920x1080 24" monitors being under $200, there's no reason not to have at least two. If you want more than two, you may need a second graphics card in the PC. Mark Borgerson
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
In article <q-ydnYyHS86il3rNnZ2dnUVZ8gGdnZ2d@lyse.net>, david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no says...> > On 04/01/13 17:43, Mark Borgerson wrote: > > In article <20cf19a8-5875-4479-a981-926de1dc3234@googlegroups.com>, > > manu28101992@googlemail.com says... > >> > >> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. > >> You can try out the free trial first. > >> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! > >> > >> > >> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ > > > > My biggest issue with Eagle is that I have a terrible time getting other > > people's schematics to print out properly on a B/W laser printer. The > > colored lines and text look like crap and are nearly illegible on > > an 8.5x11" printout. (This may be a user-education fault on my part.) > > I often run into this problem when printing out schematics for the > > boards from Olimex. > > > > I use PADS Logic, Layout, and Router from Mentor Graphics. The > > original package was about $4K for the basic setup. You can add > > some features for extra bucks. It only autoroutes two layerss > > at the level I have, but that's fine since I don't do boards with > > more than 4 layers--two of which are usually ground and power planes. > > > > The printouts look good too. The colored stuff gets converted > > to B/W in a way that keeps things legible. > > > > > > Mark Borgerson > > > > I've got no comments about the quality of the software or its > suitability for the job, but if you are happy spending $4K on the > software then surely you also have the budget for an A3 colour printer?I got the PADS software long before I had a color laser printer. As I said, the nice thing about PADS is that it produces good B&W output. I've just found out that EAGLE will also do B&W outputand I wish that people who put schematics into PDFs would use that option. As for the PADS cost, it was part of a consulting contract. I didn't plan to do color prints, so I didn't add a color printer to the contract. Mark Borgerson
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
On 04/01/13 20:01, Mark Borgerson wrote:> In article <kc763e$7es$2@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > says... >> >> On 2013-01-04, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote: >>> In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid >>> says... >>>> >>>> On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: >>>>> On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: >>>>>> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. >>>>>> You can try out the free trial first. >>>>>> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ >>>>>> >>>>> The best is Altium. >>>>> >>>>> No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS. >>> >>> What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only >>> PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) >>> ;-) >> >> :) >> >>> On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional >>> tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use >>> the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway >>> get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers >>> to handle your Non-PCB stuff. >>> >>> If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want >>> two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the >>> PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise >>> pin connections etc. >> >> I would think three would be the minimum (one is definitely out of the >> question). IMO you need a third monitor for datasheets, web browser, >> e-mail, and other stuff that needs to be consulted while working on >> the schematic/board. > > Good point. I use a second computer with a single monitor for the, > emails and web browsing. The two computers are on two sides > of an "L" on my bench, so I can just swivel my chair and move about > a foot to type on the other keyboard. >I have two machines at work too - a Linux system with two monitors for doing most of my work, and a Windows one with a single monitor for legacy stuff (including Altium, though I don't do much with it).> I can usually get by with two monitors for the PCB layout stuff. > By the time I get to the layout stage, I'm pretty much past the > data sheet stage. It generally works out as schematics on > one monitor and data sheets and web on the other. At the layout > stage it is layout on the larger (24") monitor and schematic > on the 21" monitor. > > With even 1920x1080 24" monitors being under $200, there's no reason > not to have at least two. If you want more than two, you > may need a second graphics card in the PC. > > > Mark Borgerson >Always go for 1920x1200 if you can - the extra vertical pixels are invaluable for most purposes other than watching films. I used to like a 1600x1200 monitor for a second (or third) monitor, simply because they don't take up as much desk space and you don't need so much horizontal pixel space for email or a web browser (though vertical space is essential). But the price of such monitors has gone through the roof in recent years. 2560x1440 monitors are getting much cheaper now too, and are great for design work or programming - I am very happy with the one I have at home.
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
In article <8YudnYYv49jer3rNnZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d@lyse.net>, david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no says...> > On 04/01/13 20:01, Mark Borgerson wrote: > > In article <kc763e$7es$2@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > > says... > >> > >> On 2013-01-04, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote: > >>> In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > >>> says... > >>>> > >>>> On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: > >>>>> On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: > >>>>>> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. > >>>>>> You can try out the free trial first. > >>>>>> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ > >>>>>> > >>>>> The best is Altium. > >>>>> > >>>>> No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. > >>>> > >>>> Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS. > >>> > >>> What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only > >>> PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) > >>> ;-) > >> > >> :) > >> > >>> On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional > >>> tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use > >>> the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway > >>> get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers > >>> to handle your Non-PCB stuff. > >>> > >>> If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want > >>> two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the > >>> PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise > >>> pin connections etc. > >> > >> I would think three would be the minimum (one is definitely out of the > >> question). IMO you need a third monitor for datasheets, web browser, > >> e-mail, and other stuff that needs to be consulted while working on > >> the schematic/board. > > > > Good point. I use a second computer with a single monitor for the, > > emails and web browsing. The two computers are on two sides > > of an "L" on my bench, so I can just swivel my chair and move about > > a foot to type on the other keyboard. > > > > I have two machines at work too - a Linux system with two monitors for > doing most of my work, and a Windows one with a single monitor for > legacy stuff (including Altium, though I don't do much with it). > > > I can usually get by with two monitors for the PCB layout stuff. > > By the time I get to the layout stage, I'm pretty much past the > > data sheet stage. It generally works out as schematics on > > one monitor and data sheets and web on the other. At the layout > > stage it is layout on the larger (24") monitor and schematic > > on the 21" monitor. > > > > With even 1920x1080 24" monitors being under $200, there's no reason > > not to have at least two. If you want more than two, you > > may need a second graphics card in the PC. > > > > > > Mark Borgerson > > > > Always go for 1920x1200 if you can - the extra vertical pixels are > invaluable for most purposes other than watching films. I used to like > a 1600x1200 monitor for a second (or third) monitor, simply because they > don't take up as much desk space and you don't need so much horizontal > pixel space for email or a web browser (though vertical space is > essential). But the price of such monitors has gone through the roof in > recent years.I wonder if you could turn a 19" monitor on its side and get the OS to swap the axes. Phones and tablets do that---why not computer monitors. Radius or somebody used to make a monitor with a swiveling stand so that the display better matched paper pages. Now most software just gives you the option to see two pages side-by-side.> > 2560x1440 monitors are getting much cheaper now too, and are great for > design work or programming - I am very happy with the one I have at home.Those larger monitors are still 3 to 4 times the cost of the 23 and 24" monitors. If I were doing boards larger than 3x5", I would probably get one in spite of the cost premium. Mark Borgerson
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 13:09:37 -0800, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote:>In article <8YudnYYv49jer3rNnZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d@lyse.net>, >david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no says... >> >> On 04/01/13 20:01, Mark Borgerson wrote: >> > In article <kc763e$7es$2@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid >> > says... >> >> >> >> On 2013-01-04, Mark Borgerson <mborgerson@comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> In article <kc6ufn$s34$3@reader1.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid >> >>> says... >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2013-01-04, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote: >> >>>>> On 1/4/2013 4:43 AM, manu28101992@googlemail.com wrote: >> >>>>>> In my opinion, it's clearly EAGLES PCB Design software. >> >>>>>> You can try out the free trial first. >> >>>>>> The support and tutorials are awesome, too! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> The best is Altium. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> No limits, no funny libraries, not just a hobby tool. >> >>>> >> >>>> Unfortunately that appears to be available just for for a hobby OS. >> >>> >> >>> What? You mean it's only available on Linux? (That's the only >> >>> PC OS I can think of that seems to have been developed as a hobby.) >> >>> ;-) >> >> >> >> :) >> >> >> >>> On a more serious note, I don't think the OS hosting a professional >> >>> tool is much of an issue as long as the developers know how to use >> >>> the OS to support their tool. If money is no object, you can alway >> >>> get a new computer with the OS required and use your other computers >> >>> to handle your Non-PCB stuff. >> >>> >> >>> If you're going to do any large projects, you will probably want >> >>> two monitors---one for the schematic and one for the >> >>> PCB layout. That greatly reduces the window swapping as you revise >> >>> pin connections etc. >> >> >> >> I would think three would be the minimum (one is definitely out of the >> >> question). IMO you need a third monitor for datasheets, web browser, >> >> e-mail, and other stuff that needs to be consulted while working on >> >> the schematic/board. >> > >> > Good point. I use a second computer with a single monitor for the, >> > emails and web browsing. The two computers are on two sides >> > of an "L" on my bench, so I can just swivel my chair and move about >> > a foot to type on the other keyboard. >> > >> >> I have two machines at work too - a Linux system with two monitors for >> doing most of my work, and a Windows one with a single monitor for >> legacy stuff (including Altium, though I don't do much with it). >> >> > I can usually get by with two monitors for the PCB layout stuff. >> > By the time I get to the layout stage, I'm pretty much past the >> > data sheet stage. It generally works out as schematics on >> > one monitor and data sheets and web on the other. At the layout >> > stage it is layout on the larger (24") monitor and schematic >> > on the 21" monitor. >> > >> > With even 1920x1080 24" monitors being under $200, there's no reason >> > not to have at least two. If you want more than two, you >> > may need a second graphics card in the PC. >> > >> > >> > Mark Borgerson >> > >> >> Always go for 1920x1200 if you can - the extra vertical pixels are >> invaluable for most purposes other than watching films. I used to like >> a 1600x1200 monitor for a second (or third) monitor, simply because they >> don't take up as much desk space and you don't need so much horizontal >> pixel space for email or a web browser (though vertical space is >> essential). But the price of such monitors has gone through the roof in >> recent years. >I wonder if you could turn a 19" monitor on its side and get the OS >to swap the axes. Phones and tablets do that---why not computer >monitors. Radius or somebody used to make a monitor with a swiveling >stand so that the display better matched paper pages. Now most >software just gives you the option to see two pages side-by-side. >> >> 2560x1440 monitors are getting much cheaper now too, and are great for >> design work or programming - I am very happy with the one I have at home. > >Those larger monitors are still 3 to 4 times the cost of the 23 and >24" monitors. If I were doing boards larger than 3x5", I would >probably get one in spite of the cost premium. > >Mark Borgerson30" monitors are quite affordable these days.. $999 Cdn. on sale for the Dell UltraSharp. Three would be nice.. 2560 x 1600 each.
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:50:20 -0500, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:>30" monitors are quite affordable these days.. $999 Cdn. on sale for >the Dell UltraSharp. Three would be nice.. 2560 x 1600 each.http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=224-9949&~ck=baynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=6&baynote_irrank=0 Cripes. The Canadian dollar must be worth a lot. I'm seeing USD1399 at the above link. And no sale price on it. Jon
Reply by ●January 4, 20132013-01-04
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:50:51 -0800, Jon Kirwan <jonk@infinitefactors.org> wrote:>On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:50:20 -0500, Spehro Pefhany ><speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > >>30" monitors are quite affordable these days.. $999 Cdn. on sale for >>the Dell UltraSharp. Three would be nice.. 2560 x 1600 each. > >http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=224-9949&~ck=baynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=6&baynote_irrank=0 > >Cripes. The Canadian dollar must be worth a lot. I'm seeing >USD1399 at the above link. And no sale price on it. > >JonIf this link doesn't wrap everywhere in the post: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/productID.226732100?WT.mc_id=mercent&mr:trackingCode=A279451E-1C86-E111-B2BE-001B21A69EB0&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=15239889307&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=21844073347&origin=pla I see that this store offers it at USD1049. Jon
