Hi, I was wondering if someone can explain to me what CPU virtualization means from the perspective of inside of a CPU. I mean, If I have a single core how I virtualized it? What parts and functions of a CPU I have to know (registers, MMU) for achieving this CPU virtualization function? Is there any "general" programming code that does this? Also, I wil try to explain it as much better I can, I want to "play", understand and descover the "state" of a CPU (state of registers), to be more specific, of an ARM CPU (any model). Can somebody guide me how I can do this? Do I have to buy a microcontroller? Many thanks!
CPU Virtualization / CPU state
Started by ●October 12, 2017
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 12:51:01 AM UTC+2, Ilias Abrams wrote:> Hi, > I was wondering if someone can explain to me what CPU virtualization means from the perspective of inside of a CPU. I mean, If I have a single core how I virtualized it? > What parts and functions of a CPU I have to know (registers, MMU) for achieving this CPU virtualization function? Is there any "general" programming code that does this? > > Also, I wil try to explain it as much better I can, I want to "play", understand and descover the "state" of a CPU (state of registers), to be more specific, of an ARM CPU (any model). Can somebody guide me how I can do this? Do I have to buy a microcontroller? > > Many thanks!start googleing: "cpu virtualization" "cpu emulation" "cpu simulation" there's a lot of ARM simulators around (also which ARM core you want to play with? there's a lot of them), find one with google. Bye Jack
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
> > > > Many thanks! > > start googleing: > "cpu virtualization" > "cpu emulation" > "cpu simulation" > > there's a lot of ARM simulators around (also which ARM core you want to play with? there's a lot of them), find one with google. > > Bye JackHi Jack, thanks for your short reply, sorry If I bothered you but, You mean that If I google those thing I will find details about the process not in theory but specific the code? So you know the answer of my question but you are so lazy to explain me and the only thing that you can say is "google" it? Ok then, Google it is!!! Thanks, nice chat!
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
On 17-10-13 01:50 , Ilias Abrams wrote:> Hi, I was wondering if someone can explain to me what CPU > virtualization means from the perspective of inside of a CPU. I mean, > If I have a single core how I virtualized it? What parts and > functions of a CPU I have to know (registers, MMU) for achieving this > CPU virtualization function? Is there any "general" programming code > that does this?I suggest to start by learning about "hypervisors", from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor.> Also, I wil try to explain it as much better I can, I want to "play", > understand and descover the "state" of a CPU (state of registers), > to be more specific, of an ARM CPU (any model).Use an assembly-language routine; assembly language lets you read or write any (architectural) register. -- Niklas Holsti Tidorum Ltd niklas holsti tidorum fi . @ .
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
Ilias Abrams <iliasabrams@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi, > I was wondering if someone can explain to me what CPU virtualization means > from the perspective of inside of a CPU. I mean, If I have a single core > how I virtualized it? What parts and functions of a CPU I have to know > (registers, MMU) for achieving this CPU virtualization function? Is there > any "general" programming code that does this? > > Also, I wil try to explain it as much better I can, I want to "play", > understand and descover the "state" of a CPU (state of registers), to be > more specific, of an ARM CPU (any model). Can somebody guide me how I can > do this? Do I have to buy a microcontroller?I'm less familiar with the ARM side, but in Intel-land there's a pointer to a structure in memory called the Virtual Machine Control Structure (VMCS). The VMCS is opaque (they don't publish the format) but it contains all the state of a virtual machine (CPU register, architectural register state, pointer to the page tables, etc). When the machine switches from one VM to another, the CPU saves the state of the VM in one VMCS and the VMCS pointer now points to a new VM. Another aspect is the Extended Page Tables. A normal machine MMU has a mapping from Virtual Addresses to Physical Addresses, described by a page table. When a VM is running, the physical addresses don't relate to real physical memory any more. We rename them Guest Virtual Addresses and Guest Physical Addresses. The Extended Page Tables are now another page table that converts Guest Physical Addresses to Host Physical Addresses which refer to actual DRAM. In general, for machines without hardware virtualisation support, there is a slow path available to emulate anything you need to virtualise: simply map the memory as non-read/write, and let the hypervisor fix up whatever behaviour is needed in the exception handler. This is slow and painful, which is why hardware virt support is now common. However, many simulators/emulators don't have proper emulation of the hardware virtualisation support (or maybe they have it, but it doesn't completely work), so you might have to tread carefully. In ARM-land, I don't think any microcontrollers have hardware virt - it's only in ARMv7-A (it used to be optional; I'm not sure if it still is). So you'll need an A-class processor. I know hardware virt was broken on the Raspberry Pi 2 (Cortex A7 version) because they didn't use ARM's PIC with virtualisation support- I'm not sure if anything changed on the Cortex A53 version (Pi 3 and later Pi 2). For a simulator I would probably start by looking at Gem5 since ARM do a lot of work on that, but am not clear on the current status. Theo
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:51:14 -0700 (PDT), Ilias Abrams <iliasabrams@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > >> > Many thanks! >> >> start googleing: >> "cpu virtualization" >> "cpu emulation" >> "cpu simulation" >> >> there's a lot of ARM simulators around (also which ARM core you want to play with? there's a lot of them), find one with google. >> >> Bye Jack > >Hi Jack, >thanks for your short reply, sorry If I bothered you but, >You mean that If I google those thing I will find details about the process not in theory but specific the code? >So you know the answer of my question but you are so lazy to explain me >and the only thing that you can say is "google" it?Virtualization is incredibly complicated - a whole graduate level college course. If you were to pay for it, it would cost you thousands of US dollars. It isn't personal. No one is going to volunteer to teach you the equivalent of a college course for no compensation. There no doubt are people who will be happy to answer specific questions about specific issues with specific architectures, but no one will answer an open-ended question like "how does this work?" You are expected to do some homework on your own.>Ok then, Google it is!!! >Thanks, nice chat!George
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
Thanks a lot both of you Theo and George, the thing is that I have read about the hypervisors and the virtualization extensions that Intel VT provides and offer, also the hardware-assisted virtualisation that ARM have introduced after the ARMv7 and most recent ARMv8 -A models but my problem is that, I am trying to understand more in depth the source code of an x86 hypervisor and of an ARM hypervisor about the CPU virtualization And I was wondering, how they start and writing this kind of source code? I mean how they learn that you need for example "on x86 Intel to enable VMCS that keeps the CPU state of both host and guest" ? My problem focused on the implementation of this CPU virtualization theory in parallel with the source code of a hypervisor. Any way, thanks a lot I know that I have to do my own homework just I was wondering if somebody can guide me more specific and not just google it :P Of course I have done that and still do that Take care
Reply by ●October 13, 20172017-10-13
On 10/13/17 21:11, Ilias Abrams wrote:> > Thanks a lot both of you Theo and George, > the thing is that I have read about the hypervisors and the virtualization extensions that Intel VT provides and offer, also the hardware-assisted virtualisation that ARM have introduced after the ARMv7 and most recent ARMv8 -A models but my problem is that, I am trying to understand more in depth the source code of an x86 hypervisor and of an ARM hypervisor about the CPU virtualization > And I was wondering, how they start and writing this kind of source code? > I mean how they learn that you need for example "on x86 Intel to enable VMCS that keeps the CPU state of both host and guest" ? > > My problem focused on the implementation of this CPU virtualization theory in parallel with the source code of a hypervisor. > > Any way, thanks a lot I know that I have to do my own homework just > I was wondering if somebody can guide me more specific and not just > google it :P > Of course I have done that and still do that > > Take careDepends on a lot of things. Virtualisation technology is pretty high level and to understand it, you need a working knowledge of operating systems, network theory and hardware technologies. You can't expect to understand the detail without the background. A general overview is not difficult, but the devil is in the detail, as usual. OS theory is in itself very interesting and accessable, even for those with limited programming and systems engineering experience. Don't be put off, just keep at it :-)... Regards, Chris
Reply by ●October 14, 20172017-10-14
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:11:48 -0700 (PDT), Ilias Abrams <iliasabrams@gmail.com> wrote:>Any way, thanks a lot I know that I have to do my own homework just >I was wondering if somebody can guide me more specific and not just >google it :PThat's a more specific question. <grin> You might want to take a look at Bochs (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/) and/or at QEMU (https://www.qemu.org/). Both of these are open source chip/system emulators. Bochs is x86 specific, whereas QEMU also does ARM, MIPS, PowerPC and Sparc to varying degrees. I think Bochs may be farther along in its support for supervisory mode code ... where a hypervisor lives ... by virtue of concentrating on x86 only. QEMU is focused more on running user mode applications - the last time I looked at it, none of the fully emulated chips were ones that had support for virtualization in hardware. George
Reply by ●October 14, 20172017-10-14
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:11:48 -0700 (PDT), Ilias Abrams <iliasabrams@gmail.com> wrote:> >Thanks a lot both of you Theo and George, >the thing is that I have read about the hypervisors and the virtualization extensions that Intel VT provides and offer, also the hardware-assisted virtualisation that ARM have introduced after the ARMv7 and most recent ARMv8 -A models but my problem is that, I am trying to understand more in depth the source code of an x86 hypervisor and of an ARM hypervisor about the CPU virtualization >And I was wondering, how they start and writing this kind of source code? >I mean how they learn that you need for example "on x86 Intel to enable VMCS that keeps the CPU state of both host and guest" ? > >My problem focused on the implementation of this CPU virtualization theory in parallel with the source code of a hypervisor. > >Any way, thanks a lot I know that I have to do my own homework just >I was wondering if somebody can guide me more specific and not just >google it :P >Of course I have done that and still do thatThe Intel x86 manuals do a pretty good job documenting what's required to do (their flavor of) virtualization on x86. It's not the easiest read, but it is rather complete. It does severely lack a high level overview, though, it assumes you know what virtualization is. A useful overview paper for x86: https://www.vmware.com/pdf/asplos235_adams.pdf
