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Your opinions please on possible 89LPC901FN programmer product

Started by Gary Peek January 2, 2004
We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to
program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP).

Currently it only works with the 901 DIP because we think that
will be the easiest chip to prototype circuits with for possible
novices. The 901 does not have a hardware UART but can be bit
banged.

It uses a second 901 to talk to the program via serial port,
(bit banged and not a true RS-232 interface) and this 901 sends
the programming pulses, and read and write bit manipulation
sequences to do the programming of the target chip. The program
on the PC does most of the work.

The target chip currently has a pushbutton switch and LED to
test simple code, and the second (programming) chip can control
power to the target chip to let you quickly program it, then
reset it and power cycle it to run the code just programmed.
It is built and assumes using the internal clock only.

If we make a product out of it we plan to include a bunch of
pads on the board where you can build your own circuits for
testing more code.

My guess is that it would sell for about $50-60 for board, cable,
PS, and software. Doing this with the two Keil boards seems to
be about $100, but they do more chips and are more complicated.

Do you think there is any interest in this as a product?
Flame away! :)

-- 
Gary Peek                mailto:mylastname@mycompanyname.com
Industrologic, Inc.      http://www.industrologic.com
Phone: (636) 723-4000    Fax: (636) 724-2288

In article <3FF5C874.6040704@mycompanyname.com>, Gary Peek
<mylastname@mycompanyname.com> writes
>My guess is that it would sell for about $50-60 for board, cable, >PS, and software. Doing this with the two Keil boards seems to >be about $100, but they do more chips and are more complicated. > >Do you think there is any interest in this as a product? >Flame away! :)
Yes but... the Keil comes with the 4K limited compiler suite. Monitors etc lots of app notes and support. It also has full circuit diagrams. The problem is that the Keil kit is done as a loss leader....It is practically impossible to compete with it commercially. This is good in that a pro kit is available at a budget price but it also kills the competition which is a pity. The other problem is getting the chips. There is a problem that many silicon distributors have high MOQ's and single parts from Maplin etc are not cheap. The cost of a board and parts could cost more than kits like the Keil where parts are bought in bulk. Silicon companies are doing this not only with dev kits but tools as well. This is having a similar effect on the low end tools vendors. It is getting to the stage where you can only do this sort of thing if you are already a big player of a specialised niche market. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Perhaps you should do a P89LPC932 board as the biggest family member in the
LPC900 series , of which the LPC901 is a sub-set of features...  Keil have
this for $59 USD with limited complier etc.

Can you compete with that!

JG

"Gary Peek" <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote in message
news:3FF5C874.6040704@mycompanyname.com...
> We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to > program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP). > > Currently it only works with the 901 DIP because we think that > will be the easiest chip to prototype circuits with for possible > novices. The 901 does not have a hardware UART but can be bit > banged. > > It uses a second 901 to talk to the program via serial port, > (bit banged and not a true RS-232 interface) and this 901 sends > the programming pulses, and read and write bit manipulation > sequences to do the programming of the target chip. The program > on the PC does most of the work. > > The target chip currently has a pushbutton switch and LED to > test simple code, and the second (programming) chip can control > power to the target chip to let you quickly program it, then > reset it and power cycle it to run the code just programmed. > It is built and assumes using the internal clock only. > > If we make a product out of it we plan to include a bunch of > pads on the board where you can build your own circuits for > testing more code. > > My guess is that it would sell for about $50-60 for board, cable, > PS, and software. Doing this with the two Keil boards seems to > be about $100, but they do more chips and are more complicated. > > Do you think there is any interest in this as a product? > Flame away! :) > > -- > Gary Peek mailto:mylastname@mycompanyname.com > Industrologic, Inc. http://www.industrologic.com > Phone: (636) 723-4000 Fax: (636) 724-2288 >
Original post from Gary Peek:
We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to
program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP).

Chris Hills wrote:
> Yes but... the Keil comes with the 4K limited compiler suite. Monitors > etc lots of app notes and support. It also has full circuit diagrams.
Schematic and sample code included of course. We are assuming assembly language since the 901 only has 1K of user program memory, and a free assembler is available, ASEM51 by Heinz (see our web site for a link).
> The other problem is getting the chips. There is a problem that many > silicon distributors have high MOQ's and single parts from Maplin etc > are not cheap. The cost of a board and parts could cost more than kits > like the Keil where parts are bought in bulk.
Good point and I understand this, that is why we have also considered including _extra chips_ or even _another PCB and chip_ so that the user could program their chip on the programming/prototyping board, test it in the prototyping section of this board, and then build it on the extra board. Again, comments welcome about this approach. Why would we do this? Well, we think the Philips 901 is a pretty neat chip, having the 8051 core, more or less. All of this assumes very simple projects on a budget or learning about micros. Otherwise, there are things much better than an 8 pin micro in a DIP package. -- Gary Peek mailto:mylastname@mycompanyname.com Industrologic, Inc. http://www.industrologic.com Phone: (636) 723-4000 Fax: (636) 724-2288
Hello Gary,

there is a programming adapter from Philips that plugs into the Keil
MCB900 board. They whole system, board + adapter is less than $100
($98). There is however a need for small quantities LPC901s that are
hard to get by through distributors.

May be if enough people request this from Digikey, they would start to
stock these nice little devices.

My opinion, your time and money would not be well spent doing a
dedicated programmer for the LPC901 but a great application example
would be to sell the 901 as a real-time clock replacement. Clocking
the RTC-block with 32 kHz external and using the 1k to provide
time-of-day functionaility. Communication to a host devices could be
done through bit-banging, switching the internal frequency to 7.373
MHz while the RTC continues to run from 32 kHz.

What would you think about that?

Cheers, Schwob

Gary Peek <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote in message news:<3FF9A83A.6050507@mycompanyname.com>...
> Original post from Gary Peek: > We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to > program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP). > > Chris Hills wrote: > > Yes but... the Keil comes with the 4K limited compiler suite. Monitors > > etc lots of app notes and support. It also has full circuit diagrams. > > Schematic and sample code included of course. We are assuming > assembly language since the 901 only has 1K of user program > memory, and a free assembler is available, ASEM51 by Heinz > (see our web site for a link). > > > The other problem is getting the chips. There is a problem that many > > silicon distributors have high MOQ's and single parts from Maplin etc > > are not cheap. The cost of a board and parts could cost more than kits > > like the Keil where parts are bought in bulk. > > Good point and I understand this, that is why we have also > considered including _extra chips_ or even _another PCB and > chip_ so that the user could program their chip on the > programming/prototyping board, test it in the prototyping > section of this board, and then build it on the extra board. > > Again, comments welcome about this approach. > > Why would we do this? Well, we think the Philips 901 is a > pretty neat chip, having the 8051 core, more or less. > > All of this assumes very simple projects on a budget or > learning about micros. Otherwise, there are things much > better than an 8 pin micro in a DIP package.
In article <3FF9A83A.6050507@mycompanyname.com>, Gary Peek
<mylastname@mycompanyname.com> writes
>Original post from Gary Peek: >We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to >program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP). > >Chris Hills wrote: >> Yes but... the Keil comes with the 4K limited compiler suite. Monitors >> etc lots of app notes and support. It also has full circuit diagrams. > >Schematic and sample code included of course. We are assuming >assembly language since the 901 only has 1K of user program >memory, and a free assembler is available, ASEM51 by Heinz >(see our web site for a link).
Ho... it is a 932 (and soon apparently a 935) with 8-K of space and a 4K C compiler.
>> The other problem is getting the chips. There is a problem that many >> silicon distributors have high MOQ's and single parts from Maplin etc >> are not cheap. The cost of a board and parts could cost more than kits >> like the Keil where parts are bought in bulk. > >Good point and I understand this, that is why we have also >considered including _extra chips_ or even _another PCB and >chip_ so that the user could program their chip on the >programming/prototyping board, test it in the prototyping >section of this board, and then build it on the extra board. > >Again, comments welcome about this approach.
Good idea except, as i discovered today for 39 USD you can get a 90* progammer board that is and add on to the Keil MCB900..... It is on the Philips web site. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Chris Hills wrote:
>>Original post from Gary Peek: >>We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to >>program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP).
> Ho... it is a 932 (and soon apparently a 935) with 8-K of space and a 4K > C compiler.
Oops, can't say that I know what they are, although I heard Philips was coming out with some others. (I was hoping for one with an A/D, not just analog comparator.) So far we have only done 901FN.
> Good idea except, as i discovered today for 39 USD you can get a 90* > progammer board that is and add on to the Keil MCB900.....
Yep, if you already had a Keil board that would be the thing to do. All of these tools I see seem to try to be everything to everyone instead of just being plain simple when simple will do (assuming you select one chip to work with.) Of course Philips has made so many variations... -- Gary Peek mailto:mylastname@mycompanyname.com Industrologic, Inc. http://www.industrologic.com Phone: (636) 723-4000 Fax: (636) 724-2288
"Gary Peek" <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote in message
news:3FF5C874.6040704@mycompanyname.com...
> We have developed a prototype board and software for the PC to > program and test code for the Philips 89LPC901FN (8 pin DIP). > > Currently it only works with the 901 DIP because we think that > will be the easiest chip to prototype circuits with for possible > novices. The 901 does not have a hardware UART but can be bit > banged. > > It uses a second 901 to talk to the program via serial port, > (bit banged and not a true RS-232 interface) and this 901 sends > the programming pulses, and read and write bit manipulation > sequences to do the programming of the target chip. The program > on the PC does most of the work. > > The target chip currently has a pushbutton switch and LED to > test simple code, and the second (programming) chip can control > power to the target chip to let you quickly program it, then > reset it and power cycle it to run the code just programmed. > It is built and assumes using the internal clock only. > > If we make a product out of it we plan to include a bunch of > pads on the board where you can build your own circuits for > testing more code. > > My guess is that it would sell for about $50-60 for board, cable, > PS, and software. Doing this with the two Keil boards seems to > be about $100, but they do more chips and are more complicated. > > Do you think there is any interest in this as a product? > Flame away! :)
well for cheap 8051 boards www.futurlec.com (also cheap pic and avr boards) US$28 for a AT89C52 http://www.futurlec.com/AT89C52Controller.shtml US$30 for a P89C51RD2 http://www.futurlec.com/P89C51Controller.shtml US$30 for AT89S8252 http://www.futurlec.com/AT89S8252DevBoard.shtml US$60 for a ADuC832 based board http://www.futurlec.com/ADUC_Controller.shtml US$75 for a DS80C420 http://www.futurlec.com/DS89C420Controller.shtml also www.newmicros.com 8051 board for US$39 SAB8051A http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/store/order.cgi?form=prod_detail&part=NMIY- 0031 The futurlec boards are made in Thailand. Mostly seem to be designed by ETT http://www.etteam.com/ http://www.etteam.com/product/product.html do boards for Z80's, 8051,68hc's,basic stamps, avr's and pics Alex --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004

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