In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a eolusdevelopment.cm> writes>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >says... >> 8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >> peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. > >None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. > >RobertYes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have? Bear in mind this is an 8Bit MCU so some things might not be physically possible. I shall dig out my PPC databooks to see if they have anything. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Developmet kit for embedded education
Started by ●February 4, 2005
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
In article <20050205085035.23171.00000459@mb-m01.aol.com>, CBarn24050 <cbarn24050@aol.com> writes>>Subject: Re: Developmet kit for embedded education >>From: Chris Hills chris@phaedsys.org >>Date: 05/02/2005 00:28 GMT Standard Time >>Message-id: <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk> >> >> > >>>What develoment kits would you would consider for senior undergrad and >>>graduate level embedded systems course? > >>8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. > >The 8051 is great for assy programing. Has a nice easy instruction set and a >straight forward architecture. Not much else going for it though.The widest range of any MCU multiple sources LOTS of tools etc etc>>or of course the "32 bit 8051" or ARM7 again lots of varients from lots >>of vendors but this is a little more expensive. > >The arm has nothing in common with the 8051.Not architecturally. The similarity is that it is the 32 bit 8051 in that "everyone" is producing variants and tools for it.> >>>What C compiler you would recommend? > >C does not run well on a 8051.Though the majority use C ver well on it (including safety and mission critical stuff) At one point most mobile phone sim cards were 51's programed in C>>Most are standard ISO C with extensions. > >Well sort of, I haven't seen 1 fully ansi complient yet but I havent seen them >all.No one uses "ANSI-C" on embedded systems... BTW I assume you mean ISO-C? C90 or C99?>>>What RTOS ports exist for this platform? >> > >Don't even go there.A few but as you say don't use one.> >>Most common micro on the planet by a large margin (about 1 in 3 MCU on >>the planet is a 51 type). > >There are loads, due to the fact that they are a least 20 years old and >everyone makes them and not due to any technical merit.The same can be said for the QWERTY keyboard. This OP was asking about educational use.>>The compiled >>binary for the first ones will run on the new ones. >> > >Yep, no improvement in 20 yrs.Yep :-)>The C language is prettymuch universal nowadays, so it doesn't much matter what >chip you use as long as its big enough and the compiler is ansi.You mean ISO-C.... none of them are the best they get is mostly C90 + extensions.>Look for a 16 >bit chip, most can be had with a starter kit of some sort.Why 16 bit? The parts, dev kits and tool are a lot more expensive. ^This is why a lot of educational establishments use the 51. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
Chris Hills wrote:> In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a > eolusdevelopment.cm> writes > >>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >>says... >> >>>8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>>peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. >> >>None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >>suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. >> >>Robert > > Yes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: > Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have?IEEE-488 bus? (Yes, I'm being silly.) Ed
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
In article <2cpNd.3223$wK.2376@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Ed Beroset <beroset@mindspring.com> writes>Chris Hills wrote: >> In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a >> eolusdevelopment.cm> writes >> >>>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >>>says... >>> >>>>8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>>>peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. >>> >>>None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >>>suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. >>> >>>Robert >> >> Yes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: >> Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have? > >IEEE-488 bus? (Yes, I'm being silly.)Silly maybe but a valid point for the fall I set my self up for :-) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
CBarn24050 wrote:>> From: Chris Hills chris@phaedsys.org >... snip ...> >> Most common micro on the planet by a large margin (about 1 in 3 >> MCU on the planet is a 51 type). > > There are loads, due to the fact that they are a least 20 years > old and everyone makes them and not due to any technical merit. > >> The compiled binary for the first ones will run on the new ones. > > Yep, no improvement in 20 yrs.Just as my 1929 Ford can operate on 3rd millenia roads. Later models have differences, but run the same software - me. Compatibility is convenient. -- "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:19:08 +0000, the renowned Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a >eolusdevelopment.cm> writes >>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >>says... >>> 8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>> peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. >> >>None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >>suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. >> >>Robert >Yes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: >Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have?Color LCD controller?
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
In article <jqfc01t5g5om0bf20qdru8tu6l3fjg74m9@4ax.com>, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> writes>On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:19:08 +0000, the renowned Chris Hills ><chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: > >>In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a >>eolusdevelopment.cm> writes >>>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >>>says... >>>> 8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>>> peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. >>> >>>None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >>>suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. >>> >>>Robert >>Yes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: >>Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have? > >Color LCD controller? >I will have to check... there are certainly LCD controllers but not I think colour. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:19:08 +0000, Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In article <3IydnX_7kJwOx5nfRVn-3A@rogers.com>, R Adsett <radsett@junk.a >eolusdevelopment.cm> writes >>In article <mUz7GCBINBBCFA+k@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, chris@phaedsys.org >>says... >>> 8051 (any one of the 600+ varients from 30+ silicon vendors) There is no >>> peripheral that the 8051 family does not have. >> >>None? That's quite an assertion to leave out there naked Chris. :) I >>suspect there might be one or two not available on an 8051. >> >>Robert >Yes... probably a risky statement. However, having set myself up: >Are there any peripherals the 8051 family does not have? > > >Bear in mind this is an 8Bit MCU so some things might not be physically >possible. I shall dig out my PPC databooks to see if they have anything. >Resolver to Digital Converter ? HDLC Capable Serial Controller ? Anton Erasmus
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
CBarn24050 wrote:> >or of course the "32 bit 8051" or ARM7 again lots of varients fromlots> >of vendors but this is a little more expensive. > > The arm has nothing in common with the 8051.Since I'm one of the authors who has published this comment, I feel the need to defend it: The ARM7 core and the 8051 core have this in common: ubiquity. The thrust of the "ARM7 is the 32-bit 8051" statement is that ARM7 fills the same niche in the 32-bit space that 8051 fills in the 8-bit space. Furthermore, due to its tiny die space, ARM7 is beginning to eat 8-bit designs also.
Reply by ●February 6, 20052005-02-06
> > Yep, no improvement in 20 yrs. > > Just as my 1929 Ford can operate on 3rd millenia roads. Later > models have differences, but run the same software - me. > Compatibility is convenient. > > --Yes, and the 1929 Ford is violating most environmental standards as well. It is hazardous to the health... There might be laws regarding cruel and unusual punishment which could be applicable to 8051 development. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
