chip that can do audio over IP

Hi
I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  

At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.

All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.

Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.

On 15/09/2018 03:05, gp.kiwi@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi
> I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).
> 
> At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> 
> All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> 
> Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
> 

Wahts is an ATA - I find 133 uses of that TLA at 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ATA

Your best bet is to talk to the chip manufacturer about its price and 
capability. They will obviously expect to go on forever - but you would 
need to look into their business a bit deeper before betting your own 
company on their chip.

You could do it with an FPGA - but don't be fooled into thinking your 
software engineering background makes you ready to do it yourself - it 
sounds like a reasonably big FPGA job. The good thing about this route 
is that FPGAs tend top stay in production for  long while and your 
design would probably port to the next generation that comes along 
without too much difficulty.

MK

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 10:17:45 PM UTC+12, Michael Kellett wrote:
> On 15/09/2018 03:05, gp...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi
> > I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).
> > 
> > At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> > 
> > All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> > 
> > Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> > https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> > but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
> > 
> 
> Wahts is an ATA - I find 133 uses of that TLA at 
> https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ATA
> 
> Your best bet is to talk to the chip manufacturer about its price and 
> capability. They will obviously expect to go on forever - but you would 
> need to look into their business a bit deeper before betting your own 
> company on their chip.
> 
> You could do it with an FPGA - but don't be fooled into thinking your 
> software engineering background makes you ready to do it yourself - it 
> sounds like a reasonably big FPGA job. The good thing about this route 
> is that FPGAs tend top stay in production for  long while and your 
> design would probably port to the next generation that comes along 
> without too much difficulty.
> 
> MK

oh, sorry, analog telephone adapter - with VOIP  e.g.
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/unified-communications/small-business-voice-gateways-ata/datasheet_C78-691107.html

Thanks. I'm looking for an off the shelf solution as much as possible.  The project is on the back burner because we don't have much development time to spare so I'm trying to find the quickest way of doing it.

gp.kiwi@gmail.com wrote:
> Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the
> above.

I'd look at teardowns of commercial ATAs or VOIP routers, and then chase up the chip
manufacturers inside.  For example:
https://goughlui.com/2016/11/20/teardown-review-grandstream-ht802-voip-analog-telephone-adapter/
https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/huawei/hg556a

However most of the ICs seem to be from very niche manufacturers, and
availability of their silicon and documentation might be an issue (unless
you can commit to xx,000 sales).  Also many of them have substantial
software stacks - possibly running on an adjacent SoC running Linux - so
they aren't simple drop-in parts.

Zarlink (since swallowed by Microsemi swallowed by Microchip) have a range
of telephony frontends, which are often used in routers to implement VOIP
features - but the SIP stack still runs on the main CPU.
https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/3720-audio-voice

Theo

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:05:09 -0700, gp.kiwi wrote:

> Hi
> I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  
> 
> At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> 
> All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> 
> Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.

Most of the big voip players offer similar products, group paging, music on hold,
listen only conference, full 2 way conference, conference moderator listen only.

I have not looked at what a asterisk server can do in a long time but that piece of software may
well have a lot of these "master" capabilities.  For a simplified remote ata you might be
able to do the entire thing with a uC.  You can get them with the ethernet phy/mac built in.
You dont need the full SIP stack.

-- 
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 12:44:15 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:05:09 -0700, gp.kiwi wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  
> > 
> > At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> > 
> > All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> > 
> > Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> > https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> > but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
> 
> Most of the big voip players offer similar products, group paging, music on hold,
> listen only conference, full 2 way conference, conference moderator listen only.
> 
> I have not looked at what a asterisk server can do in a long time but that piece of software may
> well have a lot of these "master" capabilities.  For a simplified remote ata you might be
> able to do the entire thing with a uC.  You can get them with the ethernet phy/mac built in.
> You dont need the full SIP stack.

I was looking at some of the sources for telephony products and I found more than one who build hardware to install in a PC with a recommendation to use asterisk for the software to tie it all together.  Looks like it is a pretty viable product commercially. 

Rick C.

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 4:29:21 AM UTC+12, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 12:44:15 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:05:09 -0700, gp. wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi
> > > I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  
> > > 
> > > At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> > > 
> > > All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> > > 
> > > Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> > > https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> > > but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
> > 
> > Most of the big voip players offer similar products, group paging, music on hold,
> > listen only conference, full 2 way conference, conference moderator listen only.
> > 
> > I have not looked at what a asterisk server can do in a long time but that piece of software may
> > well have a lot of these "master" capabilities.  For a simplified remote ata you might be
> > able to do the entire thing with a uC.  You can get them with the ethernet phy/mac built in.
> > You dont need the full SIP stack.
> 
> I was looking at some of the sources for telephony products and I found more than one who build hardware to install in a PC with a recommendation to use asterisk for the software to tie it all together.  Looks like it is a pretty viable product commercially. 
> 
> Rick C.

Yes it looks very good functionally and commercially.  I suspect its hardware needs might be a little higher than we would like but I will check it out.  We also need a way of continually monitoring that it's still working.

On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 14:44:20 -0700, graeme.prentice wrote:

> On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 4:29:21 AM UTC+12, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 12:44:15 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:
>> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:05:09 -0700, gp. wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Hi
>> > > I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  
>> > > 
>> > > At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
>> > > 
>> > > All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
>> > > 
>> > > Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
>> > > https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
>> > > but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
>> > 
>> > Most of the big voip players offer similar products, group paging, music on hold,
>> > listen only conference, full 2 way conference, conference moderator listen only.
>> > 
>> > I have not looked at what a asterisk server can do in a long time but that piece of software may
>> > well have a lot of these "master" capabilities.  For a simplified remote ata you might be
>> > able to do the entire thing with a uC.  You can get them with the ethernet phy/mac built in.
>> > You dont need the full SIP stack.
>> 
>> I was looking at some of the sources for telephony products and I found more than one who build hardware to install in a PC with a recommendation to use asterisk for the software to tie it all together.  Looks like it is a pretty viable product commercially. 
>> 
>> Rick C.
> 
> Yes it looks very good functionally and commercially.  I suspect its hardware needs might be a little higher than we would like but I will check it out.  We also need a way of continually monitoring that it's still working.

Send a INVITE with some special From address that all your players agree to use (you control all
the software, correct?).  The response from the INVITE could be a 603 decline or something like that.
This tells you the network and SIP stack are working.  This should work outside of asterisk.


-- 
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 10:31:56 AM UTC+12, Joe Chisolm wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 14:44:20 -0700, graeme.prentice wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 4:29:21 AM UTC+12, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 12:44:15 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:05:09 -0700, gp. wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > > Hi
> >> > > I'm a software engineer wondering about a hardware solution.  We currently have a product that uses an ATA to convert audio to IP to send to a remote device where an ATA converts digital back to audio.  We dial the ATA to tell it where we want the audio to go.  We need to allow up to 63 remote devices to simultaneously receive one-way outgoing audio (speech and maybe background music).  
> >> > > 
> >> > > At the same time we need to allow phone conversations with two modes.  The first mode is where a master can call up to 64 remote receivers simultaneously who can all listen but not talk back - one way all call speech.  The second mode is where the master can talk to at least five remote listeners (phones) simultaneously and all five can talk back to the master but don't need to hear each other.  Currently we use multiple ATA devices at each location to achieve this.
> >> > > 
> >> > > All locations are connected via a separate protocol so we are able to send and receive information and commands between them.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Are there any chips that can turn audio into IP that would let us do the above.  For the larger systems we don't mind having multiple cards each with e.g. one or two audio chips on them.  I found this from googling
> >> > > https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-broadway#compare
> >> > > but as I'm not a hardware engineer I'm not sure if this meets the requirements.  If this chip would do, does anyone know how much they cost and whether it's ok from a longevity point of view - i.e. it won't become obsolete soon.
> >> > 
> >> > Most of the big voip players offer similar products, group paging, music on hold,
> >> > listen only conference, full 2 way conference, conference moderator listen only.
> >> > 
> >> > I have not looked at what a asterisk server can do in a long time but that piece of software may
> >> > well have a lot of these "master" capabilities.  For a simplified remote ata you might be
> >> > able to do the entire thing with a uC.  You can get them with the ethernet phy/mac built in.
> >> > You dont need the full SIP stack.
> >> 
> >> I was looking at some of the sources for telephony products and I found more than one who build hardware to install in a PC with a recommendation to use asterisk for the software to tie it all together.  Looks like it is a pretty viable product commercially. 
> >> 
> >> Rick C.
> > 
> > Yes it looks very good functionally and commercially.  I suspect its hardware needs might be a little higher than we would like but I will check it out.  We also need a way of continually monitoring that it's still working.
> 
> Send a INVITE with some special From address that all your players agree to use (you control all
> the software, correct?).  The response from the INVITE could be a 603 decline or something like that.
> This tells you the network and SIP stack are working.  This should work outside of asterisk.
> 

Yes, we control all the software.  Thanks.