I'm about to start a project using SAA7113 and SAA7129 Philips devices. I've so far not been able to find any useful application notes to provide advice on how these devices should be connected and used. Does anyone have any experience of using these components and maybe some application notes or proven circuitry that they could share with me please? TIA. Rog.
SAA7113H experience
Started by ●February 20, 2005
Reply by ●February 20, 20052005-02-20
On Sunday, in article
<%a3Sd.1554$LR3.1228@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote:
>I'm about to start a project using SAA7113 and SAA7129 Philips devices. I've
A 9bit Y/C or CVBS input processor
and 8bit video encoder devices
both with I2C control
Both with support for all sorts of captioning, widescreen and ITU656 data
formatting.
>so far not been able to find any useful application notes to provide advice
>on how these devices should be connected and used. Does anyone have any
>experience of using these components and maybe some application notes or
>proven circuitry that they could share with me please?
There is a wealth of information in the data sheets for those devices,
including device circuits, however though do assume a few things you
understand first:-
1/ Working with video (NOT PC graphics)
2/ Digital video standards
3/ What your system is doing.
I would suggest you read this book first
Video Demystified
A Handbook for the Digital Engineer
By Keith Jack of (then) Brooktree
ISBN 1-878707-09-4
These sorts of devices are not a general learner part to get to grips
with understand digital video, its standards and system design for
video processing.
I do assume your are also going to have some frame stores and processor
control to interface with these devices?
Your system could almost be passthrough between the two devices or have frame
stores or even hard disk drives or other digital video sources so no
simple appliction note or design beyond somebodys product details will
tell you a quarter of the design. Most of these products are likely to
be in cost competitive or markets of high competition who are not likely
to share the amount of knowledge required.
Consider that the book I mentioned is over 400 pages long and does not
give detailed hardware and software designs down to each resistro or line
of code. There are lots of block diagrams, standards and timing discussions.
--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
Reply by ●February 20, 20052005-02-20
"Paul Carpenter" <paul$@pcserv.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:20050220.2029.306875snz@pcserv.demon.co.uk...> On Sunday, in article > <%a3Sd.1554$LR3.1228@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> > enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote: >>I'm about to start a project using SAA7113 and SAA7129 Philips devices. >>I've > > A 9bit Y/C or CVBS input processor > and 8bit video encoder devices > both with I2C control > > Both with support for all sorts of captioning, widescreen and ITU656 data > formatting. > >>so far not been able to find any useful application notes to provide >>advice >>on how these devices should be connected and used. Does anyone have any >>experience of using these components and maybe some application notes or >>proven circuitry that they could share with me please? > > There is a wealth of information in the data sheets for those devices, > including device circuits, however though do assume a few things you > understand first:- > > 1/ Working with video (NOT PC graphics) > > 2/ Digital video standards > > 3/ What your system is doing. > > I would suggest you read this book first > > Video Demystified > A Handbook for the Digital Engineer > > By Keith Jack of (then) Brooktree > ISBN 1-878707-09-4 > > These sorts of devices are not a general learner part to get to grips > with understand digital video, its standards and system design for > video processing. > > I do assume your are also going to have some frame stores and processor > control to interface with these devices? > > Your system could almost be passthrough between the two devices or have > frame > stores or even hard disk drives or other digital video sources so no > simple appliction note or design beyond somebodys product details will > tell you a quarter of the design. Most of these products are likely to > be in cost competitive or markets of high competition who are not likely > to share the amount of knowledge required. > > Consider that the book I mentioned is over 400 pages long and does not > give detailed hardware and software designs down to each resistro or line > of code. There are lots of block diagrams, standards and timing > discussions. > > -- > Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk > <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services > <http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info > <http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate >Paul, Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with the video standards and will be using the 656 format to send data to an FPGA processing engine. Regarding the Philips chips it's things like the need (or not) for a filter on the 7129 outputs, what happens to the LLC output from the 7113 when it doesn't have any video input i.e. does it free run at 27MHz? I just trying to take some of the risk out of my initial work. I've not found the device data sheets that good to be honest with you. Maybe I should have been specific with my initial post. Regards, Rog.
Reply by ●February 20, 20052005-02-20
[snip]> Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with the video standards and will be > using the 656 format to send data to an FPGA processing engine. Regarding > the Philips chips it's things like the need (or not) for a filter on the > 7129 outputs, what happens to the LLC output from the 7113 when it doesn't > have any video input i.e. does it free run at 27MHz? I just trying to take > some of the risk out of my initial work. I've not found the device data > sheets that good to be honest with you. > > Maybe I should have been specific with my initial post. > > Regards, > > Rog.If you don't have video going in it doesn't put out a sensible signal. I didn't bother to measure what it did put out because it was rubbish. The setup is the tricky thing and I had a lot of fun with these chips. The settings seem to go on forever and if you poke one bit of the timing another bit will need opposite tweaking. I'm not the hardware designer, I just suffered with the software. The circuit is not complicated and most of the clever stuff is in the settings. I recall that there was a magic resistor on the 7129 that wasn't documented but if you missed it off then the composite video output didn't work. The designers added low pass filters on all the outputs consisting of an inductor and a few other bits in a simple network. Peter
Reply by ●February 20, 20052005-02-20
"Peter" <moocowmoo@newprovidence.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:cvb1pr$g9c$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...> [snip] > >> Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with the video standards and will >> be using the 656 format to send data to an FPGA processing engine. >> Regarding the Philips chips it's things like the need (or not) for a >> filter on the 7129 outputs, what happens to the LLC output from the 7113 >> when it doesn't have any video input i.e. does it free run at 27MHz? I >> just trying to take some of the risk out of my initial work. I've not >> found the device data sheets that good to be honest with you. >> >> Maybe I should have been specific with my initial post. >> >> Regards, >> >> Rog. > > If you don't have video going in it doesn't put out a sensible signal. I > didn't bother to measure what it did put out because it was rubbish. The > setup is the tricky thing and I had a lot of fun with these chips. The > settings seem to go on forever and if you poke one bit of the timing > another bit will need opposite tweaking. I'm not the hardware designer, I > just suffered with the software. The circuit is not complicated and most > of the clever stuff is in the settings. I recall that there was a magic > resistor on the 7129 that wasn't documented but if you missed it off then > the composite video output didn't work. The designers added low pass > filters on all the outputs consisting of an inductor and a few other bits > in a simple network. > > Peter >Peter, Thanks for that. The "magic resistor" would sound really amusing if it wasn't so important to the operation of the device. If you recall any more detail I'd obviously be interested to hear. Thanks again, Roger.
Reply by ●February 21, 20052005-02-21
> > Thanks for that. The "magic resistor" would sound really amusing if it > wasn't so important to the operation of the device. If you recall any more > detail I'd obviously be interested to hear. > > Thanks again, > > Roger. > >Sorry, my memory was wrong, we used another encoder SAA7182A where a resistor had to be attached to TESTC. If it wasn't fitted then the composite output wouldn't work. We never found out why we needed it. Peter
Reply by ●February 21, 20052005-02-21
"moocowmoo" <meltyb@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:cvcc4f$jl8$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...> >> >> Thanks for that. The "magic resistor" would sound really amusing if it >> wasn't so important to the operation of the device. If you recall any >> more >> detail I'd obviously be interested to hear. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Roger. >> >> > > Sorry, my memory was wrong, we used another encoder SAA7182A where a > resistor had to be attached to TESTC. If it wasn't fitted then the > composite > output wouldn't work. We never found out why we needed it. > > Peter > >Thanks Peter.
Reply by ●February 22, 20052005-02-22
On Sunday, in article
<Xa7Sd.1821$LR3.1413@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote:
>"Paul Carpenter" <paul$@pcserv.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:20050220.2029.306875snz@pcserv.demon.co.uk...
>> On Sunday, in article
>> <%a3Sd.1554$LR3.1228@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
>> enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote:
>>>I'm about to start a project using SAA7113 and SAA7129 Philips devices.
>>>I've
>>
>> A 9bit Y/C or CVBS input processor
>> and 8bit video encoder devices
>> both with I2C control
>>
>> Both with support for all sorts of captioning, widescreen and ITU656 data
>> formatting.
>>
>>>so far not been able to find any useful application notes to provide
>>>advice
>>>on how these devices should be connected and used. Does anyone have any
>>>experience of using these components and maybe some application notes or
>>>proven circuitry that they could share with me please?
>>
......
>> These sorts of devices are not a general learner part to get to grips
>> with understand digital video, its standards and system design for
>> video processing.
>>
>> I do assume your are also going to have some frame stores and processor
>> control to interface with these devices?
>>
>> Your system could almost be passthrough between the two devices or have
.....
>> frame
>> stores or even hard disk drives or other digital video sources so no
>> simple appliction note or design beyond somebodys product details will
>> tell you a quarter of the design. Most of these products are likely to
>> be in cost competitive or markets of high competition who are not likely
>> to share the amount of knowledge required.
...
>Paul,
>
>Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with the video standards and will be
>using the 656 format to send data to an FPGA processing engine. Regarding
>the Philips chips it's things like the need (or not) for a filter on the
>7129 outputs, what happens to the LLC output from the 7113 when it doesn't
>have any video input i.e. does it free run at 27MHz? I just trying to take
>some of the risk out of my initial work. I've not found the device data
>sheets that good to be honest with you.
>
>Maybe I should have been specific with my initial post.
I may also have been a bit too hasty, having seen too many video related
posts from those who fail to understand the basics of video or worst
still how they are going to make camera devices do complicated tasks
without working out the lighting and lenses required.
Video processing work involves a lot of sitting down and working out
before putting the first part on the schematic, which many fail to
realise.
I see you have had many useful replies after your further clarification
and hope they provided the details required.
--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
Reply by ●February 22, 20052005-02-22
"Paul Carpenter" <paul$@pcserv.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:20050222.1108.306927snz@pcserv.demon.co.uk...> On Sunday, in article > <Xa7Sd.1821$LR3.1413@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> > enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote: >>"Paul Carpenter" <paul$@pcserv.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:20050220.2029.306875snz@pcserv.demon.co.uk... >>> On Sunday, in article >>> <%a3Sd.1554$LR3.1228@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> >>> enquiries@rwconcepts.co.uk "Roger" wrote: >>>>I'm about to start a project using SAA7113 and SAA7129 Philips devices. >>>>I've >>> >>> A 9bit Y/C or CVBS input processor >>> and 8bit video encoder devices >>> both with I2C control >>> >>> Both with support for all sorts of captioning, widescreen and ITU656 >>> data >>> formatting. >>> >>>>so far not been able to find any useful application notes to provide >>>>advice >>>>on how these devices should be connected and used. Does anyone have any >>>>experience of using these components and maybe some application notes or >>>>proven circuitry that they could share with me please? >>> > ...... >>> These sorts of devices are not a general learner part to get to grips >>> with understand digital video, its standards and system design for >>> video processing. >>> >>> I do assume your are also going to have some frame stores and processor >>> control to interface with these devices? >>> >>> Your system could almost be passthrough between the two devices or have > ..... >>> frame >>> stores or even hard disk drives or other digital video sources so no >>> simple appliction note or design beyond somebodys product details will >>> tell you a quarter of the design. Most of these products are likely to >>> be in cost competitive or markets of high competition who are not likely >>> to share the amount of knowledge required. > ... >>Paul, >> >>Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with the video standards and will be >>using the 656 format to send data to an FPGA processing engine. Regarding >>the Philips chips it's things like the need (or not) for a filter on the >>7129 outputs, what happens to the LLC output from the 7113 when it doesn't >>have any video input i.e. does it free run at 27MHz? I just trying to take >>some of the risk out of my initial work. I've not found the device data >>sheets that good to be honest with you. >> >>Maybe I should have been specific with my initial post. > > I may also have been a bit too hasty, having seen too many video related > posts from those who fail to understand the basics of video or worst > still how they are going to make camera devices do complicated tasks > without working out the lighting and lenses required. > > Video processing work involves a lot of sitting down and working out > before putting the first part on the schematic, which many fail to > realise. > > I see you have had many useful replies after your further clarification > and hope they provided the details required. > > -- > Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk > <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services > <http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info > <http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate > >Thanks for the reply. Rog.
