We use the Hitachi H8S2676 chip in one of our products and a while ago Renesas told us the chip was going out of production. Someone here forgot to do a lifetime buy from them in time but we recently did a lifetime buy of several thousand from a third party company. In the first production run of over 100 boards, every single one failed the manufacturing test. It seems at least one of the problems is when it tries to access internal memory from external memory it gets zeros - or something like that (don't have the exact details). We suspect the chips are counterfeit or seconds or something. Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? Does anyone know a reliable source of H8S2676 chips?
H8S2676 faulty chips
Started by ●May 29, 2019
Reply by ●May 29, 20192019-05-29
On 5/29/2019 11:23, xyman8@gmail.com wrote:> We use the Hitachi H8S2676 chip in one of our products and a while ago Renesas told us the chip was going out of production. Someone here forgot to do a lifetime buy from them in time but we recently did a lifetime buy of several thousand from a third party company. In the first production run of over 100 boards, every single one failed the manufacturing test. It seems at least one of the problems is when it tries to access internal memory from external memory it gets zeros - or something like that (don't have the exact details). We suspect the chips are counterfeit or seconds or something. > > Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? > > Does anyone know a reliable source of H8S2676 chips? >Can't be of any help but thanks for sharing the info. Can you perhaps name the third party company, this might help other people in the future. I have not been burned yet but I have heard plenty of stories about chips bought not via the large, known distributors. There looks to be quite a busyness living on selling you "whatever you need, we'll just have to imprint the logo on a fitting package". OTOH we bought some fast HV diodes via ebay twice (not sure if it was the same seller both times), were OK. Dimiter ====================================================== Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com ====================================================== http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
Reply by ●May 30, 20192019-05-30
On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:22:45 AM UTC+12, Dimiter wrote:> On 5/29/2019 11:23, xy...@gmail.com wrote: > > We use the Hitachi H8S2676 chip in one of our products and a while ago Renesas told us the chip was going out of production. Someone here forgot to do a lifetime buy from them in time but we recently did a lifetime buy of several thousand from a third party company. In the first production run of over 100 boards, every single one failed the manufacturing test. It seems at least one of the problems is when it tries to access internal memory from external memory it gets zeros - or something like that (don't have the exact details). We suspect the chips are counterfeit or seconds or something. > > > > Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? > > > > Does anyone know a reliable source of H8S2676 chips? > > > > Can't be of any help but thanks for sharing the info. > > Can you perhaps name the third party company, this might > help other people in the future. > > I have not been burned yet but I have heard plenty of > stories about chips bought not via the large, known > distributors. There looks to be quite a busyness living > on selling you "whatever you need, we'll just have to > imprint the logo on a fitting package". > > OTOH we bought some fast HV diodes via ebay twice (not sure if it > was the same seller both times), were OK. > > DimiterThanks for the reply. I can't name the company as we're still not exactly sure of what's going on. I would have thought that anyone with the technology to manufacture these kind of chips would have the ability to do it correctly but it seems they don't.
Reply by ●May 30, 20192019-05-30
On 30/05/2019 12:18, xyman8@gmail.com wrote:> On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:22:45 AM UTC+12, Dimiter wrote: >> On 5/29/2019 11:23, xy...@gmail.com wrote: >>> We use the Hitachi H8S2676 chip in one of our products and a >>> while ago Renesas told us the chip was going out of production. >>> Someone here forgot to do a lifetime buy from them in time but we >>> recently did a lifetime buy of several thousand from a third >>> party company. In the first production run of over 100 boards, >>> every single one failed the manufacturing test. It seems at >>> least one of the problems is when it tries to access internal >>> memory from external memory it gets zeros - or something like >>> that (don't have the exact details). We suspect the chips are >>> counterfeit or seconds or something. >>> >>> Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? >>> >>> Does anyone know a reliable source of H8S2676 chips? >>> >> >> Can't be of any help but thanks for sharing the info. >> >> Can you perhaps name the third party company, this might help other >> people in the future. >> >> I have not been burned yet but I have heard plenty of stories about >> chips bought not via the large, known distributors. There looks to >> be quite a busyness living on selling you "whatever you need, we'll >> just have to imprint the logo on a fitting package". >> >> OTOH we bought some fast HV diodes via ebay twice (not sure if it >> was the same seller both times), were OK. >> >> Dimiter > > Thanks for the reply. I can't name the company as we're still not > exactly sure of what's going on. I would have thought that anyone > with the technology to manufacture these kind of chips would have the > ability to do it correctly but it seems they don't.It is possible the chips are genuine but a different variant, destined for a large manufacturer. It is also possible that access to the internal memory is a feature that is turned on by setting a bit not normally accessible. I presume the company you purchased through is a long time served supplier? Can they not assist and confirm their source is legitimate? -- Mike Perkins Video Solutions Ltd www.videosolutions.ltd.uk
Reply by ●May 31, 20192019-05-31
On 05/30/19 19:39, Mike Perkins wrote:> On 30/05/2019 12:18, xyman8@gmail.com wrote: >> On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:22:45 AM UTC+12, Dimiter wrote: >>> On 5/29/2019 11:23, xy...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> We use the Hitachi H8S2676 chip in one of our products and a >>>> while ago Renesas told us the chip was going out of production. >>>> Someone here forgot to do a lifetime buy from them in time but we >>>> recently did a lifetime buy of several thousand from a third >>>> party company. In the first production run of over 100 boards, >>>> every single one failed the manufacturing test. It seems at >>>> least one of the problems is when it tries to access internal >>>> memory from external memory it gets zeros - or something like >>>> that (don't have the exact details). We suspect the chips are >>>> counterfeit or seconds or something. >>>> >>>> Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? >>>> >>>> Does anyone know a reliable source of H8S2676 chips? >>>> >>> >>> Can't be of any help but thanks for sharing the info. >>> >>> Can you perhaps name the third party company, this might help other >>> people in the future. >>> >>> I have not been burned yet but I have heard plenty of stories about >>> chips bought not via the large, known distributors. There looks to >>> be quite a busyness living on selling you "whatever you need, we'll >>> just have to imprint the logo on a fitting package". >>> >>> OTOH we bought some fast HV diodes via ebay twice (not sure if it was >>> the same seller both times), were OK. >>> >>> Dimiter >> >> Thanks for the reply. I can't name the company as we're still not >> exactly sure of what's going on. I would have thought that anyone >> with the technology to manufacture these kind of chips would have the >> ability to do it correctly but it seems they don't. > > It is possible the chips are genuine but a different variant, destined > for a large manufacturer. It is also possible that access to the > internal memory is a feature that is turned on by setting a bit not > normally accessible. > > I presume the company you purchased through is a long time served > supplier? Can they not assist and confirm their source is legitimate? >Seems to me that if you are buying from any unproven vendor, you would get samples and verify that they were good before a bulk buy ?. With so much fraudulent stuff coming from places like China, we all need to be more vigilant...
Reply by ●May 31, 20192019-05-31
Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:> Seems to me that if you are buying from any unproven vendor, you would > get samples and verify that they were good before a bulk buy ?. With so > much fraudulent stuff coming from places like China, we all need to be > more vigilant...Common practice at dodgy vendors (of lithium batteries in this case, but probably applies to semiconductors too) is to supply small orders from genuine stock, and counterfeits for volume orders. That means the samples work fine, and also means any bad feedback on marketplaces like Alibaba is drowned out by good feedback from small customers. Theo
Reply by ●June 7, 20192019-06-07
Are there are semiconductor manufacturers that could make 6000 or so of these chips if we paid them enough money?
Reply by ●June 7, 20192019-06-07
xyman8@gmail.com wrote:> Are there are semiconductor manufacturers that could make 6000 or so of these chips if we paid them enough money?Theoretically: yes Practically: no To do it, you'd need the design files from Renesas. That includes any proprietary blobs inserted by the foundry. In practice you'd need to use the same foundry they used, because the design will be targeted to a particular process. Next you need a packaging plan. You need someone to take your silicon dice, and bond it into a package. That may or may not be the same as the existing package - depends on the capability they have. Then you need a testing strategy. It's 'only' half the work of designing a new chip from scratch. Instead I'd be looking at redesigning the product - that's probably a lot easier. Theo
Reply by ●June 8, 20192019-06-08
Thanks. I'm told that we've been unable to determine where the chips were made. Some people here are speculating that the chips were actually made by Renesas but were rejected during manufacture. Does this seem believable? In a production run of 100 boards here, all boards failed. We bought 6000 of these chips. I find it hard to believe that Renesas would have as many as 6000 failures or that they would allow these chips to escape their factory. The reason I'm interested is that if the chips were made by a non Renesas company, it's possible they have a solution and secondly, how did they get the design files?
Reply by ●June 8, 20192019-06-08
xyman8@gmail.com writes:> In a production run of 100 boards here, all boards failed. We bought > 6000 of these chips. I find it hard to believe that Renesas would > have as many as 6000 failuresMaybe you could contact Renesas and offer to pay them to examine some of those chips and see if they are legit.