ARM micros and UML memory requirements / training?

Hi,

although I am very familiar with ARM micros from different vendors, my
knowledge about UML is EXTREMLY basic, well does not really exist ;-).
In recent conversations with customers, the topic UML came up several
times. There was a thread about tools in February and a longer thread
about UML in embedded systems in Nov 2004, both did not address the
limited memory available in single chip microcontrollers such as
Philips LPC2000, Atmel SAM7, STR710, you name them.

Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
running a project that is UML based?

In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper into UML
with embedded micros.

Thanks for your inputs

Schwob

On 2005-03-16, An Schwob in USA <schwobus@aol.com> wrote:

> Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
> running a project that is UML based?

Huh?  UML is a way to write specifications.

Your question is like asking what the memory requirements are
for a project whose specifications is written in German.

> In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper
> into UML with embedded micros.

Your question doesn't make sense.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! Everybody out
                                  at               of the GENETIC POOL!
                               visi.com            

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-03-16, An Schwob in USA <schwobus@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
>>running a project that is UML based?
> 
> 
> Huh?  UML is a way to write specifications.
> 
> Your question is like asking what the memory requirements are
> for a project whose specifications is written in German.
> 
> 
>>In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper
>>into UML with embedded micros.
> 
> 
> Your question doesn't make sense.
> 

Just guessing: he must be thinking of tools such as I-Logix'
Rhapsody or IAR's Visual state.

Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2005-03-16, An Schwob in USA <schwobus@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
>>running a project that is UML based?
> 
> 
> Huh?  UML is a way to write specifications.

There have been UML to C++ case tools for years, and the "executable 
UML" movement appears to be steaming ahead (at least according to the 
executable UML folks).
> 
> Your question is like asking what the memory requirements are
> for a project whose specifications is written in German.
> 
> 
>>In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper
>>into UML with embedded micros.
> 
> 
> Your question doesn't make sense.
> 


-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

An Schwob in USA wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> although I am very familiar with ARM micros from different vendors, my
> knowledge about UML is EXTREMLY basic, well does not really exist ;-).
> In recent conversations with customers, the topic UML came up several
> times. There was a thread about tools in February and a longer thread
> about UML in embedded systems in Nov 2004, both did not address the
> limited memory available in single chip microcontrollers such as
> Philips LPC2000, Atmel SAM7, STR710, you name them.
> 
> Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
> running a project that is UML based?
> 
> In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper into UML
> with embedded micros.
> 
> Thanks for your inputs
> 
> Schwob
> 
That would depend heavily on the CASE tool that you were using. 
According to the folks at Mentor Graphics (no I can't remember the 
subsidiary) you can customize their code generation to a nearly degree, 
so this is probably something you can control.

Your biggest problem will most likely be that UML, if it lives up to its 
promises, will allow you to implement more functionality per man-hour 
than ever before, and that functionality will be what's taking up memory.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Grant Edwards" <grante@visi.com> wrote in message
news:113gvk9fd221i00@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-03-16, An Schwob in USA <schwobus@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are when
> > running a project that is UML based?
>
> Huh?  UML is a way to write specifications.

Oops, another one who doesn't believe that you can use UML with
codegeneration on microcontrollers. I created a simple blinky application in
UML (Rose-RealTime in C) on a PIC 8bit micro together with a clock, a timer
and a small real time executive and it was about 1,1 Kb.
Currently we are using 'passive classes' only approach on Infineon 16 bit
micro controllers successfully. These models are quite complex and by using
code generation for statediagrams only, the programs are much more easy to
maintain.

Check out the white-paper at:
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks//rational/library/04/r-3151/index.html

>
> Your question is like asking what the memory requirements are
> for a project whose specifications is written in German.
>
> > In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper
> > into UML with embedded micros.
>
> Your question doesn't make sense.

It does make sense!

>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! Everybody
out
>                                   at               of the GENETIC POOL!
>                                visi.com
>

Kind Regards,
-- 
############################################################
# Oce Technologies B.V.        name: Ton Janssen (3A60)    #
# P.O. Box 101                email: djan@oce.nl           #
# 5900 MA Venlo             Private: djan@home.nl          #
#                               Tel: +31 (0)77-359 40 97   #
# The Netherlands               Fax: +31 (0)77-359 54 50   #
############################################################
  This note does not necessarily represent the position of
  Oce Technoligies B.V. Therefore no liability or
  responsibility for whatever will be accepted.

I really appreciate all the answers.

Grant, I would assume you know a lot more about UML that I do and
although a little surprise by your answer, I agree that UML is probably
primarily used for specifications.

Ton, thank you for cleaning my record (not asking totally stupid
questions ;-).

>From a friend I also got a hint that there is a low cost training
combining ARM and UML, provided by Willert, Keil and Philips.
In case some German speaking guys want to know more:
http://www.keil.com/events/seminar/47.htm

As the result of your feedback I will look into more details because
UML might be a multiuse high level description ofr specifications as
well as complex software problems. Once I became more knowledgable I
will try to provide my newly aquired knowledge to this group as well,
needless to say, on reuquest only.

Thanks again, your inputs indicate it is worth the while start spending
some time on UML.

An Schwob in USA



Ton Janssen wrote:
> "Grant Edwards" <grante@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:113gvk9fd221i00@corp.supernews.com...
> > On 2005-03-16, An Schwob in USA <schwobus@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Can somebody provide an idea what the memory requirements are
when
> > > running a project that is UML based?
> >
> > Huh?  UML is a way to write specifications.
>
> Oops, another one who doesn't believe that you can use UML with
> codegeneration on microcontrollers. I created a simple blinky
application in
> UML (Rose-RealTime in C) on a PIC 8bit micro together with a clock, a
timer
> and a small real time executive and it was about 1,1 Kb.
> Currently we are using 'passive classes' only approach on Infineon 16
bit
> micro controllers successfully. These models are quite complex and by
using
> code generation for statediagrams only, the programs are much more
easy to
> maintain.
>
> Check out the white-paper at:
>
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks//rational/library/04/r-3151/index.html
>
> >
> > Your question is like asking what the memory requirements are
> > for a project whose specifications is written in German.
> >
> > > In general this is a sanity check whether I should look deeper
> > > into UML with embedded micros.
> >
> > Your question doesn't make sense.
>
> It does make sense!
>
> >
> > --
> > Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!!
Everybody
> out
> >                                   at               of the GENETIC
POOL!
> >                                visi.com
> >
>
> Kind Regards,
> --
> ############################################################
> # Oce Technologies B.V.        name: Ton Janssen (3A60)    #
> # P.O. Box 101                email: djan@oce.nl           #
> # 5900 MA Venlo             Private: djan@home.nl          #
> #                               Tel: +31 (0)77-359 40 97   #
> # The Netherlands               Fax: +31 (0)77-359 54 50   #
> ############################################################
>   This note does not necessarily represent the position of
>   Oce Technoligies B.V. Therefore no liability or
>   responsibility for whatever will be accepted.