On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:> On 3/27/2023 10:09 AM, Rick C wrote: > > On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:18:15 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >> On 3/27/2023 7:05 AM, Rick C wrote: > >>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:31:20 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >>>> On 3/26/2023 7:25 PM, Rick C wrote: > >>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:25:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >>>>>> On 3/25/2023 6:42 PM, George Neuner wrote: > >>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 18:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C > >>>>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Excellent Don. Now, please tell me which unit is the DCE and which is > >>>>>>>> the DTE? Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this > >>>>>>>> device, which pin on the DB9 connector is the data output and which > >>>>>>>> is the data input? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Terminal Equipment" (TE) vs "Communications Equipment" (CE). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> DTE is the computer (terminal), DCE is the modem. To adhere to the > >>>>>>> RS-232 conventions, your external device has to be "communications > >>>>>>> equipment". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Don explained the cables and how the signaling works. DTE transmits on > >>>>>>> TxD, and receives on RxD. DCE does the reverse. Which physical pins > >>>>>>> these are on depends on the form factor: DB9 or DB25. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> RS-232 pinout diagrams are very easy to find. Try Google. > >>>>>> Rick doesn't understand how the Standard is interpreted solely as > >>>>>> "guidance", in the real world. The idea that someone ELSE could > >>>>>> examine *his* choice of device from *his* chosen vendor and > >>>>>> comment, in any meaningful way, suggests a naivite that's > >>>>>> beyond laughable. > >>>>> > >>>>> The comedy here, is that both of you think I was saying anything about RS-232 being useful here, as other than a voltage level standard. I expect that of you. I don't know George so well. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was playing the game, where questions are asked, until the other person sees the absurdity of what they were saying. You still haven't figured that out. > >>>> No, YOU haven't. I twice made the statements about the standard. > >>>> You didn't get the hint. Instead, you assumed I would engage you > >>>> in a pointless discussion about what the pinout *could* be. > >>>> > >>>> In plain english: THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE HERE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE DEVICE > >>>> THAT *YOU* SELECTED. (unless they want to do the work that you seem to be > >>>> avoiding in favor of being argumentative) > >>>> > >>>> You're the one who picked the device. Did you *expect* it to adhere > >>>> to a standard? ANY standard? If so, why? If not, why not? > >>>> > >>>> Spend a few dollars (as you've likely spent that much in *time*) > >>>> and buy one to examine -- if your attempts at getting answers > >>>> from the vendor leave you distraught. > >>> > >>> Don, you very clearly have no understanding of the posts I have made. Please don't bother to reply until you do. > >> I suspect it is you who don't understand what you're saying. > >> "Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this device, which pin on > >> the DB9 connector is the data output and which is the data input?" > >> I gave you a very deliberate and accurate answer to this explicit question. > > > > Exactly. You gave a dissertation to answer a question that has not been asked. The worst part is, you can't understand why your answer is not relevant. That's because you are doing a great job of talking, but a crap job of listening. I seriously doubt you will review the thread. Even if you do, I expect you will continue to not understand the question. > I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question. > Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had > explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead > of just "Gee, I dunno. It worked WHEN I PLUGGED IN THE CABLE!"You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WAS OUTPUT! You just keep repeating the same stuff over, and over, without any idea of how to answer the question asked, "which pin is output"?> And, if you DID find such a person (to have done your work for you > so YOU wouldn't have to shell out a few bucks to do your own > exploration), would you then have asked about some OTHER board? > > Or, inquired as to whether it supported XON/XOFF flow control? > > Or, whether the vendor supplied driver could control the direction > of a transceiver? > > Or... > > I.e., all of the questions you should be able to answer FOR YOURSELF? > > You're that client who invites you to lunch to discuss a project. > And then just wanders around trying to sort out what he actually > *wants* -- expecting YOU to be able to read his mind. And, guarantee > success in *his* market. > > Best bet, enjoy the meal. Toss him a few bones. Help yourself to > a big slice of pie. Thank him as you depart. And, when he calls > about starting the project a week or two later, "be unavailable".Now you are ranting about bones. I guess you are upset by the fact that you could not answer the question, because you never understood the question.> >> To paraphrase: > >> > >> "If the person you are talking to gives you a pin number, you are talking to > >> the wrong person." > > > > Even though, that is what I'm asking for, a pin number. See how you fail to comprehend the question? > See how you fail to understand the answer? > > Did you not understand the reference to the "box with a DB25 on it"?Which reference? There is no DB25 connector anywhere in the system being discussed.> >> Think about it. > > > > I'm trying to get you to do just that. But you are in output mode, and have ceased all input activities. > I've already showed that I understand the problem. I've acknowledged how > *I* have addressed the problem over the years. Do you think I would > build "widgets" for a problem that didn't exist? Instead of just using > an RS232 patch box?No, you've shown a wide knowledge of RS-232 and related issues, but a complete failure of understanding the question being asked. Please go back to the original post you replied to and see what the question is.> Clearly I've faced this issue more times than you have as I seem to have > the skills to get to the answer I need without whining to USENET for > someone *else* to do that homework!LOL You are a trip. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so wrapped around the axle, even on usenet.> >>> Thank you, > >> > >> Ah, Officer Rick has spoken! I;m shaking in my boots! > > > > Now, you are just being weird. > Well, it was YOU who declared this to be YOUR thread and set about > creating policy for who can and who can't post, here...I asked you to stop posting off topic. Most people respond to that appropriately. You were trying to educate me, without understanding what I had even asked, which is not at all uncommon for you. Your posts are typically very long, somewhat rambling, nearly a stream of consciousness and a bit hard to follow. Then someone else engages with you on the same level and the thread is forever lost. Is it any wonder that c.a.e is virtually a ghost town?> Would you prefer to be called USENET Bouncer?I don't care what I'm called it you leave this thread. Although, it doesn't really matter. You've pretty much ruined it for anyone looking for info on the original subject.> >> Here's a guy who rules out "a board and a box to be assembled"... > >> but is only making *20* of them! > > > > Again, you are projecting. You know virtually none of the facts, but you feel you know more about the problem than I do. Can you not understand your error? > No, can you not see how your "Give me a cookie cuz I'm too lazy to get up > and get it for myself" attitude comes across? > > I volunteered an accurate answer to a specific question that you asked. > I previously offered up the idea of one/two-port terminal servers > controlled by a (remotable) PC. Also, not acceptable.Not acceptable because you know NOTHING of the problem to be solved. Why don't you ask some pertinent questions, rather than wasting 1,000 words describing the picture in your head.> You want a box, sitting on a shelf, that says "For Rick". And, > will probably complain of the color scheme chosen!Depend on the color. I remember someone in one of these groups, who, when asked to recommend a router, refused saying he didn't know all the requirements such as the color. Yeah, he went on at length about clients he had who insisted he remove a router he had installed, because it was the wrong color. So now, he won''t recommend a router without knowing the user's color scheme. LOL> >> Would plugging in a wall wart be too high of a burden, as well? > >> > >> What about taking it out of the packing material? > > > > Now you are just being silly, a silly, silly boy. > Exactly! That's how you come across. "Mommy, can you get me > a cookie?" > > "The cookie jar is right on the counter, ricky. Help yourself" > > "But I'm eating my lunch..." > >> Grow the f*ck up, "ricky". By *your* admission, you're neither an > >> engineer nor a technician. So, wander back to accounting school > >> and juggle some numbers in a book -- MAYBE you might have a > >> proclivity for that! Engineering? Not. > > > > Wow! Such a defensive attitude. Rather than ask a single question, to learn what you don't know, you insist on being silly. > You're the one asking the question -- about something you can sort out > for yourself. Did you recently break both arms in an auto accident? > Are you typing with a mouthstick?Wow. You really are twisted. I feel sorry for you.> > So what do you think my background is, exactly? > > > > Err... maybe I shouldn't be feeding the troll? Or can you actually answer the question with a reply intended to communicate? > You've not sorted out who the troll is in this thread, rick. > Most others apparently have! > > How long are you going to hang around waiting for an answer that > is more to your liking? > > Why not call the vendor? (use the mouthstick to dial the phone)Which vendor? Again, you fail to understand when I mentioned the input and output, I was not actually expecting an answer. I expected anyone looking at the documentation, which the person I was replying to should have done, to realize there was no answer possible without contacting the vendor. Further, the context was the person considering doing this work for hire, in which case, I expect them to do the work of finding the hardware. I'm sorry that your near nearsightedness prevents you from seeing beyond your desk. I am curious, why do you continue to waste your time replying here? What is the benefit to you? Is someone paying you to twitter away your time at this? -- Rick C. +--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port
Started by ●January 17, 2023
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 3/27/2023 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote:> On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:52 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >> On 3/27/2023 7:04 AM, Rick C wrote: >>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:31:18 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >>>> On 3/26/2023 7:30 PM, Rick C wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:52:48 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:32 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:23 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>>> I build these into connector shells that are designed to support a >>>>>>>> pair of back-to-back connectors (DB9 or 25) and then affix a label >>>>>>>> telling me the device that it is intended to normalize (e.g., I have >>>>>>>> one at my feet that "fixes" APC's UPS serial port) *or* the function >>>>>>>> it is intended to perform (gender change, NULL modem, NULL 'terminal'!, >>>>>>>> etc.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the APC widget mentioned: >>>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/J35SBBob#FtQznCDovhBZHJdA5OspHdMo6_DiDMjQwtCqnh3Oa54> >>>>>> And this is the COTS *PC* that I use as a name server: >>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/Fi4hEACJ#YgVZ5tdZBjTcwW76gXC2vdgv5M6u4lTpUDAwu53Z9n8> >>>>>> >>>>>> Note the *two* serial ports (DTE as the standard dictates), 100BaseT >>>>>> network connection (it's just a name server, it doesn't need to >>>>>> have high throughput), PS/2 keyboard and VGA (cuz it's a PC!), >>>>>> wifi and USB. The four mounting holes visible are the VESA standard >>>>>> (I have these mounted between my monitor and support arm) >>>>>> >>>>>> As an ISA PC, it will run damn near any OS intended for such >>>>>> a platform (I run NetBSD on this box). So, all of the PC hosted >>>>>> AND TARGETED tools are available (I have a LFC monitor wired to >>>>>> one of the serial ports to discipline my time service as that >>>>>> was easier/cheaper to implement than any other solution!). >>>>> >>>>> Wow! He's gone from making overly verbose posts with far more description than needed, to making replies to himself, neither of which are needed. >>>>> >>>>> Don, why are you here? Why are you posting in this thread? You have gone completely off topic. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>> To show that if you buy something (or, in my case, RESCUE something with >>>> *no* markings at all on it) for a KNOWN MARKET, then you can *infer* how >>>> a responsible design would pin the connectors. >>>> >>>> I rescued this item. I had no idea what sort of CPU was inside. >>>> Nor memory. Nor pinouts of the DB9's (which I *assumed* would >>>> be serial ports -- why? because the rest of the box LOOKED like >>>> it was trying to be a PC, albeit in a very small form factor >>>> and with a wonky power connector). Or, if the 8P8C was actually >>>> a network port. Or, if the circular DIN was intended as a PS/2 >>>> keyboard. Or, the DE15 as a video port. >>>> >>>> The markings by the connectors *suggested* these uses. And, it >>>> seemed more likely than not... >>>> >>>> With *no* documentation, I opted to plug in a monitor (largely >>>> confident that the resolution would be supported by this >>>> "unknown" box) and keyboard and poke around the SETUP screen >>>> (which I *also* assumed would be available... somehow). >>>> >>>> Why was I *not* surprised with that outcome? >>>> >>>> You've posted a link to a device selected from a vendor >>>> that I'm unfamiliar with and, you infer, insufficiently >>>> documented (hey, at least you KNOW who made/makes your >>>> device! That's more than *I* had to go on!). >>>> >>>> Then, expect "us" to give you a definitive answer about >>>> specifics related to that device. And, frown on those of >>>> us that point this out to you as being "not helpful". >>>> >>>> ALL ONE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT A RANDOM DEVICE THAT APPEARS TO HAVE >>>> SERIAL PORT(S) IS WHAT THE STANDARD SAYS ABOUT THOSE PORTS, >>>> THEIR GENDER AND THE SIGNALS ASSIGNED TO THE PINS AND THEIR >>>> DIRECTIONS. I suspect more than a few people learned something >>>> about the standard, here. And, the approach I have taken >>>> to handle pinning differences (my "widgets"). >>>> >>>> Why aren't you talking to the vendor? Do you expect him/her >>>> to be reading your posts, here? >>>> >>>> Buy something that appears to be a PC. It won't succeed >>>> in that ubiquitous market if it differs radically from >>>> other devices that also claim to be PCs. So, you can, >>>> /with a high degree of confidence/, expect the connectors >>>> to be pinned the way a PC would pin them. >>>> >>>> Or, buy from Joe's Garage Shop -- ask for Joe. >>>> >>>> THIS example is a testament to how I was able to make use >>>> of a COMPLETELY undocumented device simply by making a >>>> good assumption about the intent of the product and the >>>> logical conclusions that flow from that assumption. The >>>> only examination required was trying to deduce the >>>> connections to the power connector and the associated >>>> voltages (but, I had a pretty good feeling it wouldn't >>>> be 7.293VDC or 28V or... again, because of the likely market) >>> >>> You are off topic in this thread. Why not start your own thread, rather than polluting this one? >> You still fail to see how this applies to "determining which >> pin is the output". >> >> Wow, can a person get any denser? > > No, you can't. You completely fail to understand what is going on with this issue. > > >> Hey, rick, I've got a box here. It's got a DB25 connector on it. >> Is it for a printer? Serial port? SCSI interface? I'd post a photo >> of it but the only distinguishable feature is the connector... >> >> Surely you should be able to answer this question! > > What does YOUR box have to do with my project? You are projecting your imaginings, onto a conversation that is very different from what you are talking about. But that's typical of you. At least your last few posts have not been a complete dump of every stray thought that you encountered while writing the post. > > >> BTW, Joe is still waiting for your call... > > I'm sure he will wait a long time to come. He's probably waiting for you to stop posting off topic in this thread.Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards into boxes! It's now 27 March. Your initial post was 17 January. A productive two months for you, eh?
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 3/27/2023 1:03 PM, Rick C wrote:>>>>>>> I was playing the game, where questions are asked, until the other person sees the absurdity of-------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ Ah, so you're not an engineer. Not a technician. Comedian??> what they were saying. You still haven't figured that out.>> I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question. >> Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had >> explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead >> of just "Gee, I dunno. It worked WHEN I PLUGGED IN THE CABLE!" > > You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WAS OUTPUT!And my answer fits that dfescription. Here, Master Rick. Please, in clear English sentences of no more than 3 syllables, explain what you want from us. And, WHY YOU EXPECT SOMEONE HERE to have that information. Do you think one of us designed the board? Do you think the vendor watches s.e.d for questions that might be pertinent? Do you think our accesses to the site serve up DIFFERENT information? Do you want one of us to buy a board and 'scope the pins? Do you want us to consult a Quija board? Seer? Tea leaves? HOW do you expect one of us to answer this -- when you clearly can't (won't)?> You just keep repeating the same stuff over, and over, without any idea of how to answer the question asked, "which pin is output"?See above. It's been answered -- as correctly and thoroughly as can be done WITH THE INFORMATION THAT *YOU* PROVIDED! You keep asking the same question without telling us how you expect US to have the answer when we have LESS THAN the information that YOU have. Or, do you just want someone to get that cookie for you? Soon, the need will have passed and it will be a moot point, eh?
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 3/26/2023 7:28 PM, Rick C wrote:> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:37:45 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >> On 3/25/2023 7:26 PM, Rick C wrote: >>> Engineers design stuff. Technicians figure out how to make it work. >> And you apparently do neither. <frown> > > You seem to have gone off the weird end. I wish GG had a kill file feature. At least you managed to post without overflowing everyone's input buffers. You seem to have a penchant for using 100 words, when 20 will do.Says a guy who spawned a 2.5 month long thread OVER A PINOUT! Wow! I wonder how long the thread will be about power supply voltages...> Thanks for keeping this one brief. >
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 2023-03-27, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:> On 3/27/2023 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote: >> >> I'm sure he will wait a long time to come. He's probably waiting for >> you to stop posting off topic in this thread. > > Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put > a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your > problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards > into boxes! > > It's now 27 March. Your initial post was 17 January. A productive two months > for you, eh?That was my thought wwwwaaaayyyy back!
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 4:08:12 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:> On 3/27/2023 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote: > > On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:52 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >> On 3/27/2023 7:04 AM, Rick C wrote: > >>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:31:18 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >>>> On 3/26/2023 7:30 PM, Rick C wrote: > >>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:52:48 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:32 PM, Don Y wrote: > >>>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:23 PM, Don Y wrote: > >>>>>>>> I build these into connector shells that are designed to support a > >>>>>>>> pair of back-to-back connectors (DB9 or 25) and then affix a label > >>>>>>>> telling me the device that it is intended to normalize (e.g., I have > >>>>>>>> one at my feet that "fixes" APC's UPS serial port) *or* the function > >>>>>>>> it is intended to perform (gender change, NULL modem, NULL 'terminal'!, > >>>>>>>> etc.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This is the APC widget mentioned: > >>>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/J35SBBob#FtQznCDovhBZHJdA5OspHdMo6_DiDMjQwtCqnh3Oa54> > >>>>>> And this is the COTS *PC* that I use as a name server: > >>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/Fi4hEACJ#YgVZ5tdZBjTcwW76gXC2vdgv5M6u4lTpUDAwu53Z9n8> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Note the *two* serial ports (DTE as the standard dictates), 100BaseT > >>>>>> network connection (it's just a name server, it doesn't need to > >>>>>> have high throughput), PS/2 keyboard and VGA (cuz it's a PC!), > >>>>>> wifi and USB. The four mounting holes visible are the VESA standard > >>>>>> (I have these mounted between my monitor and support arm) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As an ISA PC, it will run damn near any OS intended for such > >>>>>> a platform (I run NetBSD on this box). So, all of the PC hosted > >>>>>> AND TARGETED tools are available (I have a LFC monitor wired to > >>>>>> one of the serial ports to discipline my time service as that > >>>>>> was easier/cheaper to implement than any other solution!). > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow! He's gone from making overly verbose posts with far more description than needed, to making replies to himself, neither of which are needed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Don, why are you here? Why are you posting in this thread? You have gone completely off topic. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>> To show that if you buy something (or, in my case, RESCUE something with > >>>> *no* markings at all on it) for a KNOWN MARKET, then you can *infer* how > >>>> a responsible design would pin the connectors. > >>>> > >>>> I rescued this item. I had no idea what sort of CPU was inside. > >>>> Nor memory. Nor pinouts of the DB9's (which I *assumed* would > >>>> be serial ports -- why? because the rest of the box LOOKED like > >>>> it was trying to be a PC, albeit in a very small form factor > >>>> and with a wonky power connector). Or, if the 8P8C was actually > >>>> a network port. Or, if the circular DIN was intended as a PS/2 > >>>> keyboard. Or, the DE15 as a video port. > >>>> > >>>> The markings by the connectors *suggested* these uses. And, it > >>>> seemed more likely than not... > >>>> > >>>> With *no* documentation, I opted to plug in a monitor (largely > >>>> confident that the resolution would be supported by this > >>>> "unknown" box) and keyboard and poke around the SETUP screen > >>>> (which I *also* assumed would be available... somehow). > >>>> > >>>> Why was I *not* surprised with that outcome? > >>>> > >>>> You've posted a link to a device selected from a vendor > >>>> that I'm unfamiliar with and, you infer, insufficiently > >>>> documented (hey, at least you KNOW who made/makes your > >>>> device! That's more than *I* had to go on!). > >>>> > >>>> Then, expect "us" to give you a definitive answer about > >>>> specifics related to that device. And, frown on those of > >>>> us that point this out to you as being "not helpful". > >>>> > >>>> ALL ONE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT A RANDOM DEVICE THAT APPEARS TO HAVE > >>>> SERIAL PORT(S) IS WHAT THE STANDARD SAYS ABOUT THOSE PORTS, > >>>> THEIR GENDER AND THE SIGNALS ASSIGNED TO THE PINS AND THEIR > >>>> DIRECTIONS. I suspect more than a few people learned something > >>>> about the standard, here. And, the approach I have taken > >>>> to handle pinning differences (my "widgets"). > >>>> > >>>> Why aren't you talking to the vendor? Do you expect him/her > >>>> to be reading your posts, here? > >>>> > >>>> Buy something that appears to be a PC. It won't succeed > >>>> in that ubiquitous market if it differs radically from > >>>> other devices that also claim to be PCs. So, you can, > >>>> /with a high degree of confidence/, expect the connectors > >>>> to be pinned the way a PC would pin them. > >>>> > >>>> Or, buy from Joe's Garage Shop -- ask for Joe. > >>>> > >>>> THIS example is a testament to how I was able to make use > >>>> of a COMPLETELY undocumented device simply by making a > >>>> good assumption about the intent of the product and the > >>>> logical conclusions that flow from that assumption. The > >>>> only examination required was trying to deduce the > >>>> connections to the power connector and the associated > >>>> voltages (but, I had a pretty good feeling it wouldn't > >>>> be 7.293VDC or 28V or... again, because of the likely market) > >>> > >>> You are off topic in this thread. Why not start your own thread, rather than polluting this one? > >> You still fail to see how this applies to "determining which > >> pin is the output". > >> > >> Wow, can a person get any denser? > > > > No, you can't. You completely fail to understand what is going on with this issue. > > > > > >> Hey, rick, I've got a box here. It's got a DB25 connector on it. > >> Is it for a printer? Serial port? SCSI interface? I'd post a photo > >> of it but the only distinguishable feature is the connector... > >> > >> Surely you should be able to answer this question! > > > > What does YOUR box have to do with my project? You are projecting your imaginings, onto a conversation that is very different from what you are talking about. But that's typical of you. At least your last few posts have not been a complete dump of every stray thought that you encountered while writing the post. > > > > > >> BTW, Joe is still waiting for your call... > > > > I'm sure he will wait a long time to come. He's probably waiting for you to stop posting off topic in this thread. > Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put > a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your > problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards > into boxes! > > It's now 27 March. Your initial post was 17 January. A productive two months > for you, eh?Some people think small. I'm currently negotiating a multi-million dollar job. This design is actually for my brother who needs a gadget and so far, has not been able to find anyone to help him. There are a few people who have contacted me here and one from another group. I expect one of them will turn out to be a good choice. Thanks for your concern about the use of my time. -- Rick C. +-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 4:17:29 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:> On 3/27/2023 1:03 PM, Rick C wrote: > >>>>>>> I was playing the game, where questions are asked, until the other person sees the absurdity of > -------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ > > Ah, so you're not an engineer. Not a technician. Comedian?? > > what they were saying. You still haven't figured that out. > >> I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question. > >> Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had > >> explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead > >> of just "Gee, I dunno. It worked WHEN I PLUGGED IN THE CABLE!" > > > > You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WAS OUTPUT! > And my answer fits that dfescription. > > Here, Master Rick. Please, in clear English sentences of no more than > 3 syllables, explain what you want from us. And, WHY YOU EXPECT SOMEONE HERE > to have that information.I don't expect anything from you, and so far, you have not disappointed.> Do you think one of us designed the board?What board? The one with insufficient information? No, but you still fail to understand that I never expected an answer to the question. It was a question that would have led any intelligent person to the realization that the question could not be answered, which was the point I was trying to make to the person who posted the link to the board. But, in your usual way, you jumped in to fix what YOU thought was the problem, while you knew no more than anyone else.> Do you think the vendor watches s.e.d for questions that might be pertinent?I figured the vendor has you on speed dial.> Do you think our accesses to the site serve up DIFFERENT information?This is getting old. Will you ever come to understand what is going on???> Do you want one of us to buy a board and 'scope the pins?Oh, yes, please do! But I won't be using the board, because it has the wrong connector.> Do you want us to consult a Quija board? Seer? Tea leaves?If that's how you usually do design work, go for it.> HOW do you expect one of us to answer this -- when you clearly can't (won't)?Oh! Now you are getting close to the answer. NO ONE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION! This is like the joke of the guy who goes to a delicatessen and orders the soup. The waiter brings the soup. A few minutes later the waiter sees he's not eating and asks if the soup is good. The guy says, "I can't eat the soup!". The waiter is puzzled and says, "What's wrong with the soup?". Again, the reply, "I can't eat the soup!" The waiter asks again, "What's wrong with soup?". Again, the reply, "I can't eat the soup!" Frustrated, the waiter says, "I'll try the soup, where's the spoon?" The guy says, "Ah ha!" When are you going to realize I'm trying to show you that none of your DCE/DTE, TxD/RxD is of any value in this case. You don't have a SPOON!> > You just keep repeating the same stuff over, and over, without any idea of how to answer the question asked, "which pin is output"? > See above. It's been answered -- as correctly and thoroughly as can be done > WITH THE INFORMATION THAT *YOU* PROVIDED!Which is exactly the point. YOU can't answer the question, because there is not adequate information. It has been all this time that you've been spouting about DCE/DTE and convention this and all manner of formality, which is of ZERO value, because the board is not documented as to whether it's DTE or DCE wired! Do you see the forest, or the trees?> You keep asking the same question without telling us how you expect US > to have the answer when we have LESS THAN the information that YOU have.No, we have the same exact information. You just don't understand the information.> Or, do you just want someone to get that cookie for you? > > Soon, the need will have passed and it will be a moot point, eh?LOL You don't really think I'm relying on this group to solve my design issues, do you? It started out as a query about a board in a box. Then it turned into some people discussing the possibility of doing the work. Unlike you, they were smart enough to discuss this further offline, through email. -- Rick C. +-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 4:39:06 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:> On 3/26/2023 7:28 PM, Rick C wrote: > > On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:37:45 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > >> On 3/25/2023 7:26 PM, Rick C wrote: > >>> Engineers design stuff. Technicians figure out how to make it work. > >> And you apparently do neither. <frown> > > > > You seem to have gone off the weird end. I wish GG had a kill file feature. At least you managed to post without overflowing everyone's input buffers. You seem to have a penchant for using 100 words, when 20 will do. > Says a guy who spawned a 2.5 month long thread OVER A PINOUT! > > Wow! I wonder how long the thread will be about power supply voltages...What is the power supply voltage? -- Rick C. +-++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 3/27/2023 1:46 PM, Jim Jackson wrote:> On 2023-03-27, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> On 3/27/2023 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote: >>> >>> I'm sure he will wait a long time to come. He's probably waiting for >>> you to stop posting off topic in this thread. >> >> Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put >> a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your >> problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards >> into boxes! >> >> It's now 27 March. Your initial post was 17 January. A productive two months >> for you, eh? > > That was my thought wwwwaaaayyyy back!As I said elsewhere this thread: "some people are slow learners". <rolls eyes>
Reply by ●March 27, 20232023-03-27
On 3/27/2023 2:50 PM, Rick C wrote:> On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 4:08:12 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >> On 3/27/2023 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote: >>> On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:52 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >>>> On 3/27/2023 7:04 AM, Rick C wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:31:18 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >>>>>> On 3/26/2023 7:30 PM, Rick C wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:52:48 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:32 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2023 1:23 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I build these into connector shells that are designed to support a >>>>>>>>>> pair of back-to-back connectors (DB9 or 25) and then affix a label >>>>>>>>>> telling me the device that it is intended to normalize (e.g., I have >>>>>>>>>> one at my feet that "fixes" APC's UPS serial port) *or* the function >>>>>>>>>> it is intended to perform (gender change, NULL modem, NULL 'terminal'!, >>>>>>>>>> etc.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the APC widget mentioned: >>>>>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/J35SBBob#FtQznCDovhBZHJdA5OspHdMo6_DiDMjQwtCqnh3Oa54> >>>>>>>> And this is the COTS *PC* that I use as a name server: >>>>>>>> <https://mega.nz/file/Fi4hEACJ#YgVZ5tdZBjTcwW76gXC2vdgv5M6u4lTpUDAwu53Z9n8> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note the *two* serial ports (DTE as the standard dictates), 100BaseT >>>>>>>> network connection (it's just a name server, it doesn't need to >>>>>>>> have high throughput), PS/2 keyboard and VGA (cuz it's a PC!), >>>>>>>> wifi and USB. The four mounting holes visible are the VESA standard >>>>>>>> (I have these mounted between my monitor and support arm) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As an ISA PC, it will run damn near any OS intended for such >>>>>>>> a platform (I run NetBSD on this box). So, all of the PC hosted >>>>>>>> AND TARGETED tools are available (I have a LFC monitor wired to >>>>>>>> one of the serial ports to discipline my time service as that >>>>>>>> was easier/cheaper to implement than any other solution!). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow! He's gone from making overly verbose posts with far more description than needed, to making replies to himself, neither of which are needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Don, why are you here? Why are you posting in this thread? You have gone completely off topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> To show that if you buy something (or, in my case, RESCUE something with >>>>>> *no* markings at all on it) for a KNOWN MARKET, then you can *infer* how >>>>>> a responsible design would pin the connectors. >>>>>> >>>>>> I rescued this item. I had no idea what sort of CPU was inside. >>>>>> Nor memory. Nor pinouts of the DB9's (which I *assumed* would >>>>>> be serial ports -- why? because the rest of the box LOOKED like >>>>>> it was trying to be a PC, albeit in a very small form factor >>>>>> and with a wonky power connector). Or, if the 8P8C was actually >>>>>> a network port. Or, if the circular DIN was intended as a PS/2 >>>>>> keyboard. Or, the DE15 as a video port. >>>>>> >>>>>> The markings by the connectors *suggested* these uses. And, it >>>>>> seemed more likely than not... >>>>>> >>>>>> With *no* documentation, I opted to plug in a monitor (largely >>>>>> confident that the resolution would be supported by this >>>>>> "unknown" box) and keyboard and poke around the SETUP screen >>>>>> (which I *also* assumed would be available... somehow). >>>>>> >>>>>> Why was I *not* surprised with that outcome? >>>>>> >>>>>> You've posted a link to a device selected from a vendor >>>>>> that I'm unfamiliar with and, you infer, insufficiently >>>>>> documented (hey, at least you KNOW who made/makes your >>>>>> device! That's more than *I* had to go on!). >>>>>> >>>>>> Then, expect "us" to give you a definitive answer about >>>>>> specifics related to that device. And, frown on those of >>>>>> us that point this out to you as being "not helpful". >>>>>> >>>>>> ALL ONE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT A RANDOM DEVICE THAT APPEARS TO HAVE >>>>>> SERIAL PORT(S) IS WHAT THE STANDARD SAYS ABOUT THOSE PORTS, >>>>>> THEIR GENDER AND THE SIGNALS ASSIGNED TO THE PINS AND THEIR >>>>>> DIRECTIONS. I suspect more than a few people learned something >>>>>> about the standard, here. And, the approach I have taken >>>>>> to handle pinning differences (my "widgets"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Why aren't you talking to the vendor? Do you expect him/her >>>>>> to be reading your posts, here? >>>>>> >>>>>> Buy something that appears to be a PC. It won't succeed >>>>>> in that ubiquitous market if it differs radically from >>>>>> other devices that also claim to be PCs. So, you can, >>>>>> /with a high degree of confidence/, expect the connectors >>>>>> to be pinned the way a PC would pin them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or, buy from Joe's Garage Shop -- ask for Joe. >>>>>> >>>>>> THIS example is a testament to how I was able to make use >>>>>> of a COMPLETELY undocumented device simply by making a >>>>>> good assumption about the intent of the product and the >>>>>> logical conclusions that flow from that assumption. The >>>>>> only examination required was trying to deduce the >>>>>> connections to the power connector and the associated >>>>>> voltages (but, I had a pretty good feeling it wouldn't >>>>>> be 7.293VDC or 28V or... again, because of the likely market) >>>>> >>>>> You are off topic in this thread. Why not start your own thread, rather than polluting this one? >>>> You still fail to see how this applies to "determining which >>>> pin is the output". >>>> >>>> Wow, can a person get any denser? >>> >>> No, you can't. You completely fail to understand what is going on with this issue. >>> >>> >>>> Hey, rick, I've got a box here. It's got a DB25 connector on it. >>>> Is it for a printer? Serial port? SCSI interface? I'd post a photo >>>> of it but the only distinguishable feature is the connector... >>>> >>>> Surely you should be able to answer this question! >>> >>> What does YOUR box have to do with my project? You are projecting your imaginings, onto a conversation that is very different from what you are talking about. But that's typical of you. At least your last few posts have not been a complete dump of every stray thought that you encountered while writing the post. >>> >>> >>>> BTW, Joe is still waiting for your call... >>> >>> I'm sure he will wait a long time to come. He's probably waiting for you to stop posting off topic in this thread. >> Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put >> a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your >> problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards >> into boxes! >> >> It's now 27 March. Your initial post was 17 January. A productive two months >> for you, eh? > > Some people think small. I'm currently negotiating a multi-million dollar job. This design is actually for my brother who needs a gadget and so far, has not been able to find anyone to help him. There are a few people who have contacted me here and one from another group. I expect one of them will turn out to be a good choice."Multi-million dollar job". And you're dicking around with nickels and dimes? Buy 20 BRAND SPANKING NEW pc's and be done with it! Wow, what a great businessman -- not!> Thanks for your concern about the use of my time.I'd hate to see you waste it -- as you have, ours!
