High speed USB 2.0 OTG component availability

Hi,

I'm searching for a chip that operates to the high speed USB 2.0
On-The-Go (OTG) standard.  We currently use the Cypress FX2 (CY7C68013)
to provide a high speed USB 2.0 interface to a host PC and now we would
like to add a USB hosting capability that would allow us bypass the
host PC and download data directly to a high speed USB 2.0-enable hard
disk drive.  This application seems very well suited for components
that are designed to conform to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG
specification.

However, so far, I have not been able to locate any readily available
OTG components that operate at high speed (480 Mbps).  The Cypress
CY7C67200 OTG chip only operates at full speed (12 Mbps) and the
preliminary documentation on the Phillips ISP1761 claims it will
operate a high speed, but there is no datasheet available for review.
This indicates that this part is not yet available to the general
public and it's not clear how much longer it will be before it is
available.

Does anyone have any information on available components that are
designed to operate to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG specification?  Or
can any suggest an alternative solution for providing high speed USB
2.0 hosting capability that would not require the addition of several
components?

Thanks,
Brad.

On 18 Dec 2004 13:00:59 -0800, "Brad S" <bjskill@rocketmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm searching for a chip that operates to the high speed USB 2.0
>On-The-Go (OTG) standard.  We currently use the Cypress FX2 (CY7C68013)
>to provide a high speed USB 2.0 interface to a host PC and now we would
>like to add a USB hosting capability that would allow us bypass the
>host PC and download data directly to a high speed USB 2.0-enable hard
>disk drive.  This application seems very well suited for components
>that are designed to conform to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG
>specification.
>
>However, so far, I have not been able to locate any readily available
>OTG components that operate at high speed (480 Mbps).  The Cypress
>CY7C67200 OTG chip only operates at full speed (12 Mbps) and the
>preliminary documentation on the Phillips ISP1761 claims it will
>operate a high speed, but there is no datasheet available for review.
>This indicates that this part is not yet available to the general
>public and it's not clear how much longer it will be before it is
>available.
>
>Does anyone have any information on available components that are
>designed to operate to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG specification?  Or
>can any suggest an alternative solution for providing high speed USB
>2.0 hosting capability that would not require the addition of several
>components?
>
>Thanks,
>Brad.

Does it have to be high speed? By definition all 2.0 devices fall back
to full speed if the host cannot handle high speed. Also it is quite
legitimate to advertise a device/host as being USB 2.0 compatible, but
to not support high speed. After all USB 2.0 is a spec which includes
and replaces USB 1.1 spec.

The next question is does it need to be OTG? OTG has not really taken
off. The additional complexity and lack of other OTG devices (where
being host is negotiated to find which of two devices has the "best"
driver for the other guy).

Being just a host is quite enough of a problem for an embedded
software stack.

If you do find a part that does it all, let the list know.

Regards ~Steve



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> preliminary documentation on the Phillips ISP1761 claims it will
> operate a high speed, but there is no datasheet available for review.

Write to Philips, they may give you a general public release date.
They answered to me some months ago, saying "end of year".

> Does anyone have any information on available components that are
> designed to operate to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG specification?  Or

Contact also TransDimensions (www.transdimension.com), they're working on 
the TD2000 part wich is a 2.0 HS embedded host. Not OTG, "just" host.
My FAE gave me a preliminary datasheet under NDA, labelled "May 2004".

Please, share your findings with the group.
I'm going down the same route soon.

Brad S wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm searching for a chip that operates to the high speed USB 2.0
> On-The-Go (OTG) standard.  We currently use the Cypress FX2
> (CY7C68013) to provide a high speed USB 2.0 interface to a host PC
> and now we would like to add a USB hosting capability that would
> allow us bypass the host PC and download data directly to a high
> speed USB 2.0-enable hard disk drive.  This application seems very
> well suited for components that are designed to conform to the high
> speed USB 2.0 OTG specification.
>
> However, so far, I have not been able to locate any readily available
> OTG components that operate at high speed (480 Mbps).  The Cypress
> CY7C67200 OTG chip only operates at full speed (12 Mbps) and the
> preliminary documentation on the Phillips ISP1761 claims it will
> operate a high speed, but there is no datasheet available for review.
> This indicates that this part is not yet available to the general
> public and it's not clear how much longer it will be before it is
> available.
>
> Does anyone have any information on available components that are
> designed to operate to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG specification?  Or
> can any suggest an alternative solution for providing high speed USB
> 2.0 hosting capability that would not require the addition of several
> components?
>
> Thanks,
> Brad.

Below is the response I got from Philips back in mid-September about the 
ISP1761. I have not followed up since then to see if samples are actually 
available from distributors now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question:

What is the availability of the ISP1761 high-speed OTG cotnroller? When will 
parts be available from distribution? When will samples be available? When 
will eval kits and development support be available? What will the part cost 
be in low quantities?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philips Semiconductors answer:

Robert,

Thank you for contacting the Philips Technical Support Center.

We have had working samples of the ISP1761 for quite some time and now we 
expect that it will bereleased to full production at the end of September. 
At that time, samples will be made available through distribution. We have 
had working eval boards for several months so these will also be available 
at the end of September.

Regards

Paul B

RobJ wrote:
> Brad S wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm searching for a chip that operates to the high speed USB 2.0
> > On-The-Go (OTG) standard.  We currently use the Cypress FX2
> > (CY7C68013) to provide a high speed USB 2.0 interface to a host PC
> > and now we would like to add a USB hosting capability that would
> > allow us bypass the host PC and download data directly to a high
> > speed USB 2.0-enable hard disk drive.  This application seems very
> > well suited for components that are designed to conform to the high
> > speed USB 2.0 OTG specification.
> >
> > However, so far, I have not been able to locate any readily
available
> > OTG components that operate at high speed (480 Mbps).  The Cypress
> > CY7C67200 OTG chip only operates at full speed (12 Mbps) and the
> > preliminary documentation on the Phillips ISP1761 claims it will
> > operate a high speed, but there is no datasheet available for
review.
> > This indicates that this part is not yet available to the general
> > public and it's not clear how much longer it will be before it is
> > available.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information on available components that are
> > designed to operate to the high speed USB 2.0 OTG specification?
Or
> > can any suggest an alternative solution for providing high speed
USB
> > 2.0 hosting capability that would not require the addition of
several
> > components?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brad.
>
> Below is the response I got from Philips back in mid-September about
the
> ISP1761. I have not followed up since then to see if samples are
actually
> available from distributors now.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Question:
>
> What is the availability of the ISP1761 high-speed OTG cotnroller?
When will
> parts be available from distribution? When will samples be available?
When
> will eval kits and development support be available? What will the
part cost
> be in low quantities?
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Philips Semiconductors answer:
>
> Robert,
>
> Thank you for contacting the Philips Technical Support Center.
>
> We have had working samples of the ISP1761 for quite some time and
now we
> expect that it will bereleased to full production at the end of
September.
> At that time, samples will be made available through distribution. We
have
> had working eval boards for several months so these will also be
available
> at the end of September.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul B


Rob,

Thanks for your comments.  I just received the following reply from
Phillips:

-------------------  Start of Message -----------------------------
Question:
Can you please tell me the expected availability date, and its
associated datasheet,  of the ISP171?

We are need of a component that can act as a high speed USB 2.0 host.
This component does not have to be OTG compliant, but it would be
preferred.

I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,
Brad S.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philips Semiconductors answer:
Brad,
Thank you for your interest in Philips Semiconductors.
Attached is the datasheet for the ISP1761.  Samples for this part will
be available Q1 05.
Regards,
Chris L
-------------------  End of Message -----------------------------

The datasheet they sent me has "Uncontrolled Copy" and "Objective data"
markings and a "Company Restricted" waterwark, on every page.  I guess
they are trying to tell me that these parts are not ready for
production.

I didn't ask about the availability of evaluation boards, but I
assumed, based on the reponse you received from Phillips, that there
will be boards available for purchase sometime in Q1 of '05.

Brad S.

Steve,

Yes, the part must support high speed USB 2.0 transfers.  Ideally, we
would like to be able to maintain a sustain transfer rate of 40 MB/s
(320 Mbps).  I don't know if this transfer rate is realistically
possible but, so far, I haven't been able to find a lot of choices for
developing a high speed USB 2.0 host in an embedded system.

This part does not have to support the OTG spec.  If there is a part
out there that will provide a high speed USB 2.0 hosting capability
without adding a lot of complexity (components and/or software), then
it would love to hear about it.

Thanks for your comments.

Brad S.

On 20 Dec 2004 12:34:18 -0800, "Brad S" <bjskill@rocketmail.com>
wrote:

>Steve,
>
>Yes, the part must support high speed USB 2.0 transfers.  Ideally, we
>would like to be able to maintain a sustain transfer rate of 40 MB/s
>(320 Mbps).  I don't know if this transfer rate is realistically
>possible but, so far, I haven't been able to find a lot of choices for
>developing a high speed USB 2.0 host in an embedded system.
>
>This part does not have to support the OTG spec.  If there is a part
>out there that will provide a high speed USB 2.0 hosting capability
>without adding a lot of complexity (components and/or software), then
>it would love to hear about it.
>
>Thanks for your comments.
>
>Brad S.

Hi, ok you need high speed. I doubt if you can maintain 40 MB/s in any
case. Have you tried a USB drive under windows to see the max speed it
gets? I have heard that the highest data rate under Linux is about
30MB/sec. The drives themselves cannot sustain too high a rate once
they run out of cache, YMMV. The highest theoretical data rate for HS
is somewhere between 52 and 56 Mbit per second. Depending on your HS
controller and its memory interface you may get much less.

What kind of embedded system are you using? If you are doing a SOC
system on an ASIC, ARC/Transdimensional sells a USB 2.0 core.
Otherwise to maintain that kind of data rate you will have to use a
recent x86 motherboard with a decent chipset that provides USB 2.0.

Regards, ~Steve


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> Yes, the part must support high speed USB 2.0 transfers.  Ideally, we
> would like to be able to maintain a sustain transfer rate of 40 MB/s
> (320 Mbps).  I don't know if this transfer rate is realistically
> possible but, so far, I haven't been able to find a lot of choices for
> developing a high speed USB 2.0 host in an embedded system.
>
> This part does not have to support the OTG spec.  If there is a part
> out there that will provide a high speed USB 2.0 hosting capability
> without adding a lot of complexity (components and/or software), then
> it would love to hear about it.
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Brad S.

USB OTG has other limitations.
The current provided to the other end is severly limited.
For full speed, I think it is 12 mA IIRC.
I do not know if Hi Speed will allow higher currents.
You may want to check this.
Current USB memories use a lot more than 12 mA.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson   ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This is a personal view which may or may not be
share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB

Ulf,

We are intending to place a restriction on our HS USB 2.0 port that
will require any device that connects needs to be self-powered.  Our
current requirements will not require our host port to supply current
to an external device (e.g. USB 2.0 HDD).

That being said, requirements have a funny way of changing......after
the design has been completed and been turned over for PCB layout.
Hopefully, that won't happen, but we probably should look into the
current restrictions so we can be prepared in case that issue comes up.
Brad S.

Steve,

Due to budget constraints, we will not be developing an ASIC for this
project.  If we cannot achieve our 40 MB/s goal, then what is a
resonable goal assuming that the external device (e.g. USB 2.0 HDD) is
not the bottleneck?

Brad.