Forums

small uCs with CAN?

Started by Michael Noone January 18, 2006
Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN 
controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great - 
but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes 
up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board 
that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel 
AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to 
something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble 
packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across 
which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not 
an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm 
across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering 
prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces 
can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board. 
Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just 
don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP.

I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best 
I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not 
particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no 
good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from 
a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with 
layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial 
learning curve to get over.

My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have 
onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48" 
(an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense 
for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the 
market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to 
the best of my knowledge.

Thanks for your help,

-Mike
>Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN >controller.
Renesas R8C/23 http://www.renesas.com/media/products/mpumcu/m16c_family/r8ctiny_series/r8c22_group/r8c2223_48p6q.pdf Under developement, but acording to their shedule it should be available soon. HTH Markus
Michael Noone wrote:

> Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN > controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great - > but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes > up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board > that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel > AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to > something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble > packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across > which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not > an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm > across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering > prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces > can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board. > Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just > don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP. > > I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best > I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not > particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no > good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from > a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with > layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial > learning curve to get over. > > My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have > onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48" > (an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense > for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the > market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to > the best of my knowledge. > > Thanks for your help,
The Atmel 89C51CC02 comes in small packages, about the same as the PIC. Or, you could look at a Microchip CAN-SPI and then any small uC of your choice ? -jg
Markus Zingg <m.zingg@nct.ch> wrote in
news:86mts1l33trmf2b0afer589c91grqk6c69@4ax.com: 

>>Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard >>CAN controller. > > Renesas R8C/23 > > http://www.renesas.com/media/products/mpumcu/m16c_family/r8ctiny_series > /r8c22_group/r8c2223_48p6q.pdf > > Under developement, but acording to their shedule it should be > available soon. > > HTH > > Markus
That's a nice looking chip! Nice package too - like a TQFP but .5mm pitch - exactly how it should be. Any idea on the timeframe for that chip? If it's not out yet it's too late for me - but it looks like one to keep an eye on. Also - any idea of pricing and if there will be gcc support for it? Thanks, -Mike
>That's a nice looking chip! Nice package too - like a TQFP but .5mm pitch - >exactly how it should be. Any idea on the timeframe for that chip?
I'm not related to Renesas, but if you look at the map table it should be out really soon. (I.e. 1 - 2 months from now I guess).
> If it's >not out yet it's too late for me - but it looks like one to keep an eye on. >Also - any idea of pricing and if there will be gcc support for it? Thanks,
The R8Cs are actually "little brothers" of the M16C familly. Both are 16 bit cores but hte R8C with a reduced number of pins and functionalty to make them smaller and cheaper. The pricing should be fairly attractive. Just visit their Website and look for a distributor near you to have a qoute. With regard to GCC - there is no GCC support, but a quite good compiler is available from them. Best thing is to probably get an eval kit (they are dirt cheap) to get an idea. I actually find this chip familly is very well done. We use the M16C parts for quite a while and are very satisfied. Markus
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:15:07 GMT, Michael Noone
<mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> >Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN >controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great - >but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes >up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board >that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel >AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to >something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble >packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across >which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not >an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm >across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering >prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces >can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board. >Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just >don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP. > >I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best >I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not >particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no >good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from >a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with >layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial >learning curve to get over. > >My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have >onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48" >(an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense >for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the >market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to >the best of my knowledge. > >Thanks for your help, > >-Mike
Have a look at Fujitsu MB90387, is a LQFP48 Emanuele
My advise is to stay with AVR if possible.
The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there.
I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool
to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small
customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less
1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find
distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb (http://www.olimex.com/pcb)
PCB any volume assembly (http://www.olimex.com/pcb/protoa.html)
Development boards for ARM, AVR, PIC, MAXQ2000 and MSP430
(http://www.olimex.com/dev)

>My advise is to stay with AVR if possible. >The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there. >I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool >to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small >customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less >1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find >distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.
I don't know on what experience you base this statement, but with regard to Renesas (as well as Fujitsu) I made totally different experience here in Europe. Especially Renesas is very well represented. I.e. Glyn as well as Schurich deliver those controllers without problems in quantity 1. Glyn is offering excellent suport for them and is even offering their own starterkits. Markus
On 19 Jan, in article
     <1137695670.438065.311760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
     tusunov@my-deja.com wrote:

>My advise is to stay with AVR if possible. >The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there. >I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool >to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small >customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less >1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find >distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.
Farnell and Digi-Key in Europe do stock various Japanese vendors, and for models not held by them I have been able to get two's and three's. -- Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services <http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info <http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
Un bel giorno Michael Noone digit&#2013265922;:

> it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across > which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on
TQFP64 are usually 12x12 mm.
> My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have > onboard CAN controllers?
If 12x12 mm are fine, and you need some power, there are for example Silabs MCUs and TI DSPs: http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/public/web_content/products/Microcontrollers/CAN/en/CANMCU_matrix.htm http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320lf2403a.html You could also use a smaller microcontroller without CAN, with a small external CAN controller such as MCP2515 from Microchip (which is a TSSOP package, around 6x6 mm). -- asd