Re: Microchip looses the plot ?

Jim Granville wrote:
....
> The big mistake here, is that Microchip are staking a chunk of their
> credibility, on a flimsy patent that they _have_ to hope never actually
> reaches open court. What was Steve thinking ?
....

  There is an progress report on this case, in the news :

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=181503348

  Whilst Microchip were wasting resource on this, what they should have
been watching is bigger players than Zilog :

  This news from Freescale has the potential to damage Microchip much 
more than any 8 pin Z8F device....

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3VOIVFJON2IWYQSNDBESKHA?articleID=181503196

  3mm packages, and sub 50c are promised.

  This freescale move is one of the few times we have seen a uC family 
get simpler; mostly, the features creep the other way...

-jg

Jim Granville wrote:
>   This news from Freescale has the potential to damage Microchip much
> more than any 8 pin Z8F device....
>
> http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3VOIVFJON2IWYQSNDBESKHA?articleID=181503196
>
>   3mm packages, and sub 50c are promised.
>
>   This freescale move is one of the few times we have seen a uC family
> get simpler; mostly, the features creep the other way...

Simpler is right!  One accumulator, one 14-bit PC, two condition flags.

http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/brochure/BRRS08CORE.pdf

C compiler support for the RS08 is in the next release of Byte Craft's
C6808. Demo's ,C6808 updates and design reference material  will be
available on our website as soon as the technical details of the RS08 have
been released.

Walter Banks, Byte Craft Limited


Mike Silva wrote:

> Jim Granville wrote:
> >   This news from Freescale has the potential to damage Microchip much
> > more than any 8 pin Z8F device....
> >
> > http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3VOIVFJON2IWYQSNDBESKHA?articleID=181503196
> >
> >   3mm packages, and sub 50c are promised.
> >
> >   This freescale move is one of the few times we have seen a uC family
> > get simpler; mostly, the features creep the other way...
>
> Simpler is right!  One accumulator, one 14-bit PC, two condition flags.
>
> http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/brochure/BRRS08CORE.pdf

Walter Banks wrote:
> C compiler support for the RS08 is in the next release of Byte Craft's
> C6808.

Walter,

Forgive my ignorance, but I am not sure how a C compiler can target a
device with no SP (but they claim they have a 1 level subroutine call).
How can you handle function params, and recursive functions. You
apparently need to emulate the SP using other registers - this sounds
inefficient?

Is Freescale on drugs?

Eric

> Walter,
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but I am not sure how a C compiler can target a
> device with no SP (but they claim they have a 1 level subroutine call).
> How can you handle function params, and recursive functions. You
> apparently need to emulate the SP using other registers - this sounds
> inefficient?
>

"Grimme acknowledged that Freescale's strategy is similar to one proposed by
Atmel Corp. (San Jose, Calif.), which has developed compatible AVR 
microcontrollers
across the 8- and 32 bit market."

> Is Freescale on drugs?
>

Looks like they are trying to go the original ATtinyAVR approach
which was abandoned by Atmel 3 years ago...

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may bot be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB 

The RS08 C compiler handles multiple levels of subroutine calls. Subroutine
nesting beyond 1 level of subroutines are part of the design.

We have implemented several compilers without data stacks that support
full parameter passing and recursive functions.

In non recursive functions parameter access is faster than parameters on a
stack frame. In the C6808 we do recursion detection (including multi link
recursion) and only create stack frames when recursion is needed. The
RS08 C compiler supports  recursive functions. Function setup for
recursive functions is marginally more expensive than S08 stack frames
and parameter access is similar.

I have ported and bunch  HC08 and S08 C applications to the RS08
by just replacing part specific header files and code changes for part
specific I/O devices.

Walter Banks, Byte Craft Limited
http://www.bytecraft.com


Eric wrote:

> Walter Banks wrote:
> > C compiler support for the RS08 is in the next release of Byte Craft's
> > C6808.
>
> Walter,
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but I am not sure how a C compiler can target a
> device with no SP (but they claim they have a 1 level subroutine call).
> How can you handle function params, and recursive functions. You
> apparently need to emulate the SP using other registers - this sounds
> inefficient?
>
> Is Freescale on drugs?
>
> Eric

Ulf Samuelsson wrote:

>>Walter,
>>
>>Forgive my ignorance, but I am not sure how a C compiler can target a
>>device with no SP (but they claim they have a 1 level subroutine call).
>>How can you handle function params, and recursive functions. You
>>apparently need to emulate the SP using other registers - this sounds
>>inefficient?
>>
> 
> 
> "Grimme acknowledged that Freescale's strategy is similar to one proposed by
> Atmel Corp. (San Jose, Calif.), which has developed compatible AVR 
> microcontrollers across the 8- and 32 bit market."

  That was not what I took from the Atmel press releases - has anyone 
seen a "Compatible Avr-32" ?
  The are certainly not binary compatible, and pin compatible was never 
hinted at..... ?

> 
>>Is Freescale on drugs?
>>
> 
> 
> Looks like they are trying to go the original ATtinyAVR approach
> which was abandoned by Atmel 3 years ago...

It will be interesting to watch.

If they _can_ do even a vanilla C, that will make a significant difference.
At the very bottom end, these have a relatively large
code space of 16K - I have not seen RAM figures yet.

Will these devices have on chip debug ?

-jg